Is it normal for new trees to have 8"of solid clay in the root ball?

16 days ago

last modified: 16 days ago

Hello,

Hoping to get some guidance. We have planted new trees now 3 years in a row but unfortunately they have died each time due to root rot. We've been very careful about not over watering but here in PA we tend to get some heavy spring rainstorms every now and then. For the last two years we had paid the tree center to install the trees that we bought from them. Overall, we've spent over $2000 on trees and installation costs.

For this most recent set, we decided that we would try and install them ourselves to save some cost. When we dug out the previous trees, we found that the soil directly beneath them was very heavy/solid clay, and sopping wet despite the area not having been watered in months. We also found that the burlap and heavy wire mesh was still around the dead trees root ball.

This time around, we decided to install some drainage for the new trees, so we dug out a trench extending about 8' from the base of the tree and put in some drainage pipe. We didn't find any the heavy clay soil anywhere else that we dug out. Then when planting the new trees, we found that the bottom of the new tree's root ball had about 8 inches of solid red clay in the bottom. I cant imagine the clay would be able to properly drain or allow the roots to breathe if planted like this.

For the last few years we have been thinking that our soil was bad or that we were over watering. But now I'm stuck wondering if maybe the trees are being shipped with too much clay leading to root rot once they're planted?

These pictures were taken with the tree fresh from the tree center and had not yet been watered. The clay was so dense that I could literally form it with my hands.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (6)

gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
16 days ago
Field grown balled and burlapped trees - what you are describing - are almost always grown in clay. This is to provide maximum protection to the rootball. It is a standard procedure for this type of nursery product.

Remove all the wrappings before planting but leave the rootball intact. Trying to remove the clay will damage what is left of the rootball.

If your soil is also heavy clay, then plant high in a wide but shallow planting hole, so that the top of the rootball is above grade. Mound the excavated soil or any garden soil and amendments up to the top of the rootball and firm in well. Water as necessary.
mntreegrower
16 days ago
last modified: 14 days ago
If excessive, heavy spring rains are a regular occurrence where you live, then you might want to consider planting later in the season when (assuming) the heavy rains tend to subside, or possibly the fall even.

What kind of trees are you trying to plant in this heavy clay area? Not all trees are suitable to clay that doesn't drain well. How did you decide what to plant? How often were you watering?

(Bill has me thinking that I misread your post and that you don't have a yard full of clay soil.)

You would likely damage and tear off tree roots trying to remove clay from that ball.
Related Discussions
Are there nursery stock minimum standards for root balls?
Q
Comments (5)
I can answer this one since I work at a nursery. The big problem is lack of standards. Years ago when all plants were sold bare-root or balled and burlapped, shrubs were sold by height. Now most shrubs are sold by container size. No indication of height is usually given. I once got some shrubs in from a grower in #2 and #5 containers. The same type of shrub. The #5 were higher in price but actually were shorter than those that arrived in the #2! Were I work we grow and sell lots of plants in containers. The grower should not ship out anything not rooted in enough. I would ask for your money back from wherever you bought them or get replacement plants. Shame on them. Yes when growing plants in a #5, sometimes growers upshift a #1 to a #5 container. We do it all the time. Balled and burlapped plants have fairly strick rootball standards but the ANLA nursery specs for container plants really needs some improvement.
...See More
Metal wrap (root ball)....................???
Q
Comments (17)
I think it was Ironbelly Mays over in the Landscape Design forum who once said that the proper answer to any horticulture question should begin with, "It depends". I'd like to try to make two relevant and related points in this post. First, I fully agree that tree ball wrapping should be removed. All of it, when possible. Certainly the nylon string. Certainly the wire. And, depending - the burlap. Anything that can possibly compromise the future health and growth of a new tree should be addressed at the time of planting. Shoot, when else are you going to do it? The original poster is in a position where they are considering digging up a newly planted, heavy, wet, mucky tree. Yikes! That's work! What I don't agree with is the flat out assertions that failure to do all of the above is a certain death warrant. Folks, I re-ball a couple hundred trees every spring in my nursery, and believe me, the burlap rots. Even treated burlap rots. And in my nursery, the roots are pushing through one, two or three feet beyond the original rootball. In one growing season. How does this happen? Well, they are in ideal growing conditions. Nestled in well aerated mulch beds, kept moist, they grow like mad. Some species are more vigorous than others. Some individual trees don't grow as much, or not at all, and I either rogue those out, or set them aside for another season to see what they do. Been doing this for decades now, and I tell you, in northeast Kansas, burlap rots... So why are people digging up burlap years later? I can think of a couple of possibilities. If you are up north, with a shorter warm season, and colder soils in general, I can understand less burlap decay. Or lets say you're on the Colorado front range - much colder, much dryer soils, less decay. Or let's say you're a typical homeowner who likes a nice green lawn - you run your sprinklers quite frequently, you got a lot of moisture in the soil, your tree hole is a clay bucket full of water, it's anaerobic in the root ball zone, and not only does the burlap not rot, but your tree is dead too. So can we accept the fact that, sometimes burlap rots, and sometimes it doesn't? And that there are a variety of reasons for that fact? Now, the wire. Yeah, wire's not good, and you ought to take it off. But if it doesn't come off, does it mean certain decline and death? Sorry, but I think it depends...I have surely seen miles of Kansas hedgerow trees with the bob wire grown into the trunks. I've seen plenty of roots grown around wire and other foreign objects. I think trees are a lot tougher than we perhaps give them credit for. But yes, you have my vote here, the wire ought to come off. But I'm not convinced that you have to dig up a tree to remove it. My second point is to assure people that we in the nursery industry are not unaware of the problems we have in our growing practices and in our level of professionalism and industry education. These problems are being addressed at many levels - state forestry and extension offices, arborist associations, state nursery associations and so forth. Most state nursery associations, for example, have fairly rigorous certification programs for their members. Joint education programs between industry people and municipal entities (city foresters) and private contractors are quite common. Folks, we are not a bunch of crooks, nor are we ignoramuses. We have a vested interest in providing healthy, vigorous plants for the homeowner's landscape. I am proud of the contributions I have made over the years to the beauty of my community. Most responsible nursery people feel the same, I'm sure. brian
...See More
Shade tree suggestions for heavy clay soil?
Q
Comments (16)
Scarlet Oaks do nicely in slightly acidic clay soil. You found out when digging the hole, the fact that clay not only holds on to water very well, it also quickly releases the moisture it contains into voids in the soil. You dug a hole and not only the rain filled it with water, but all the water in the clay soil around the hole kept filling the hole until the water pressure in the hole became close to the same as the water pressure in the soil. Then as evaporation occurs the water which turns into vapor and rises away is replaced with more moisture from the soil, until there is not enough water in the clay soil to replace that which has evaporated. At that point the clay will begin to absorb enough of the water in the hole to once again bring the pressure of the water in the soil to be equal with the water pressure in the hole. Only once that process begins to happen will you be able to notice the water level in the hole beginning to lower. This is the very reason why it is a bad idea to dig a hole in clay, plant the tree, and backfill with a different kind of soil. In that case the backfill soil will remain full of water, not only from rain and your watering but also from being kept filled with water that the virgin clay soil is holding. The backfill soil needs to be the same as the virgin soil which came out of the hole. By doing so the pressures remain more even and the there is much less of a void in to soil situation presented. This is also why it is bad to plant a root ball that is full of potting soil directly into clay. Instead as much as possible of the potting soil need to be washed away from the rootball mass and refilled with the virgin clay soil as what is found around the planting hole. That is why it is best to plant trees when they are in their dormant stage. If for any reason you want to amend the clay soil where your tree is to be planted, there must be amendment fairly evenly mixed into the virgin soil for a very wide spreading area. The more clay ratio in the virgin soil the farther spreading you planting bed needs to be that you amend. The amended area needs to be at least 6 times, if not more the width of the tree's rootball. Also, plant the tree with the rootflare about 3 to 4 inches above the soil level. After the tree is securely planted, and staked if needed, only then back fill the exposed 3-4 inches of raised rootball with a good quality and fairly finely shredded cedar mulch. Just make certain you do not pile any mulch above the topmost part of the rootflare. The trunk should not appear to look more like a post sticking out of the ground. Instead you should be able to just see where the topmost part of the root flare is growing out of the trunk. Finally never pile any mulch all the way against the trunk, make certain to leave all mulch at least 4 or more inches away from the base of the tree's trunk.
...See More
Root ball size for transplanting a 5 ft camellia
Q
Comments (4)
Root pruning now probably wont help much unless you allow the camellia time to create new feeder roots closer to the trunk which you can then include in the rootball when transplanting. Id probably try to get an 18" - 24" diameter rootball if it is manageable. A shovel with a long blade such as a trenching shovel will probably work best. It is best to face your shovel away from the trunk and sink it vertically in the ground around the entire circumference of the rootball. Place your foot on the rootball as you remove the shovel to avoid unnecessarily disturbing it and potentially fracturing it. If you encounter any large roots, dig back beyond the rootball and prune with loppers or a saw. After you have severed all of the roots around the rootball, sink your shovel in again, this time angled toward a center point beneath the camellia at about a 45 degree angle. Do this around the entire circumference of the rootball. Gently use the shovel to loosen up the rootball and it should pop right out in one solid mass. Move the plant by the rootball (not the trunk) onto a piece of burlap or cloth and bundle tightly wrapping with thick twine. If you try to move a large rootball without securing it in burlap/etc., you risk it breaking apart which will cause unnecessary stress on the plant. Prune away any unnecessary branches/leaves to reduce stress, and remove the majority of flower buds to minimize the plants energy expenditure. or.....rent a tree spade and save your back. ;) good luck, -christian m.
...See More
gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
15 days ago
I would only state that the information given above does NOT agree with standard conventional horticultural practices for planting trees and large shrubs in clay. Planting high in a wide but quite shallow planting hole with the soil mounded around it ensures that root establishment can occur without compromising drainage. It doesn't matter the presentation - b&b, bare root or containerized. And the the rootball can be sited as high as is convenient or practical.......fully above grade if necessary.

btw, the root flare may often be buried or obscured with b&b stock. In addition to any wrappings, be sure to remove any excess soil/clay from the top of the rootball to clearly expose before planting.

https://sites.google.com/site/tnarboretum/Home/planting-a-tree-or-shrub
Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
15 days ago
Ok OP, so we decided the clay is pretty normal and more than one method of planting exists.

How big of transplants are you getting and what species?

I have best luck and do the least digging with maybe 3 ft tall transplants from gallon pots, plus there is less digging. The deer need dealt with though.
BillMN-z-2-3-4
15 days ago
' This time around, we decided to install some drainage for the new trees, so we dug out a trench extending about 8' from the base of the tree and put in some drainage pipe. We didn't find any the heavy clay soil anywhere else that we dug out. '

According to this this, the OP doesn't have heavy clay soil. It's just the root ball from the nursery that has heavy clay.

Probably need to reevaluate how it should be planted then, with a clay b&b into soil that is not heavy clay. To me, a normal planting with a larger hole, back filled with native soil, would be the way to go. Including the proper level for the root flare.
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
13 days ago
i live atop 15 feet of sand.. i could not dig a root ball to save my life .... or a trees ...

as noted.. ALL ball and burlap are clay... cant be done otherwise...

For the last two years we had paid the tree center to install the trees that we bought from them.

===>>> you need to find a person who knows how to plant in clay..

its really not mysterious nor hard.. but if your professional cant handle it.. he or she should get out of the business...

i hope they warrantied what they plants.. and i hope they stood by said warranty ... if not.. sue them...

one trick is to plant half the ball in the ground.. and mound normal soil aroung the exposed part .... so there is proper drainage... while the tree puts down roots into the clay .. your guy should know all about that ... the base problem is the transplant and the soil inability to drain the water... so figure out how to drain the soil.. and its not a pipe down in the clay ...

your guy should have used the web: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=planting+trees+in+clay+soil&atb=v298-1__&iar=videos&iax=videos&ia=videos

or this one: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=planting+trees+high+in+clay+soil&atb=v298-1__&iar=videos&iax=videos&ia=videos

welcome to the forums.. thank god you found us...

ken

Is it normal for new trees to have 8"of solid clay in the root ball?

Comments (6)

gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)

mntreegrower

Related Discussions

gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)

Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis

BillMN-z-2-3-4

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US