Well, well, well ...

This may not be the first or the last on this subject, but I have a feeling
that it might just be the BEST.
If nothing else accomplished this, Paul Barden's photos alone would be worth the probable price.
Have you any idea when we might see it available in the U.S.?

Lately, it's taken an awfully long time for such treasures to reach us.
I'd hate to have to wait until Christmas, 2009.

Jeri

Roger's first book has the Yates imprimatur (his word) and is called "the perfect companion to the bestselling Yates Garden Guide. If you decide to import his newer book, you might want to add his "Roses" to the order for great photos and chapters where you can just pick up and read what one rose lover has to say.

Looks to be a very desirable book. Thank you for bringing it to our attention!

Randy

Roger's audio surprised me, as I always thought he'd talk like an Australian. I supposed he's written too many books and gotten out of the habit. Beautiful speaking voice there.
It's 75 dollars for the book here, and you can't even get it yet.
Try again later.
I don't know why he doesn't come on over here and argue with Jon again, now that Spike has gone to heaven.
Well, here's a picture of Roger, after all these years.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rog

After the debacle of the Tea Rose book -- which Amazon offered at something like half price, tho they did not actually have it to offer -- I am unwilling to commit a credit card order for $75.00.
I don't trust Amazon to deliver what they do not have.

Nor will I ever again campaign for a US vendor to offer a book in the U.S.
Not after seeing Ashdown get burned on the Tea Rose Book.
(Talk about no good deed going un-rewarded!)
I STILL feel guilty about that.

I would love to have this book, but unless some sweet soul in Australia wants to buy it, and let me buy it from them, I'll have to wait for it to come to the U.S.

Jeri

Don't understand that huge price in the US, Deb. It's on Amazon Canada with a 1 December release date and a more realistic price ($26 Canadian). It is advertised at £9.00 UK on Amazon - good value for a hardback. I'd certainly wait and see . . . and buy from Canada if they actually meet that date.

Does the USA have the same trade embargo with Oz over botanical books as you have with plants? Perhaps Australian paper carries some terrorist disease? :)

I hope Roger and I never argued - just spurred each other to better research :) We have stayed in touch since.

Best wishes
Jon

Jeri, How did Ashdown get burned? That is a shame. I love my tea rose book.

Didn't think Roger sounded all that un Australian - slight accent maybe but he's definitely spent plenty of time here. Nobody could fight with Jon, he's too quick on his feet :-).

Kayla
He does actually sound Australian. Most Australians who write books sound like that.
How exciting that he has a new one coming out. His Yates guide was my first rose book and has proved to be very accurate about rose performance.
Sorry about the price! Books here are absurdly expensive but it's surprising that it's going to be so dear for you. I wonder if it was to do with the exchange rate which rose a lot in our favour about a month ago and has now fallen sharply. Cross your fingers that it might be revised down.

Sue

Sally, Ashdown brought in the Tea Book, so that we could have it.
Then Amazon.com began advertising it at half-price.
So quite a few folks ordered from Amazon -- and of course since they did NOT have an agreement with the publisher, those orders are STILL backordered.

I thought it was a crummy thing to do on Amazon's part.
And it makes me unwilling to place an order for something they say they don't have yet. (And may never have??)

Jeri

You can order from Amazon.uk for 16.07 GBP(incl shipping). Today, this translates into $27.51. It will be delivered in about 10 days to 2 weeks usually. I have ordered from amazon.uk in the past, especially dvds that are not available in the US and never had a problem.

Hey, THANKS!
That's an attractive thought.

Jeri

Jon and Rog never argued except for some of those enjoyable obscure references which nobody knew of but them, and stuff like that.
I paid 50 dollars for Stirling Macoboy's Ultimate Rose Book a long time ago. We're all used to those cheap Chinese books now, though.
Well, I'll have to figure out how to get this book out of England.

I bought the book today!

I wonder why Gertrude Jekyll wasn't mentioned in it. What a shame, because I really love the rose, Gertrude Jekyll.

Most gardening books are sealed, so buying one was a bit of chance. It's good that they are sealed, beacuse I certainly don't want other people to dirty the pages. Still, bookstores should have a display copy instead so that consumers know what they are buying.

Overall, it's OK and is a handy reference if you want to know a little bit about the history of the person behind the rose's name.

I should be very disappointed if such a wellknown person as Gertrude Jekyll were mentioned in the book. I am much more interested in unfamiliar names. Was Louise Odier really a dancer? Am I right in claiming that Fru Dagmar Hastrup was named for the breeder's wife, Dagmar Henriette Wilhelmine Hastrup, née Kolle? And not for some unknown Frau Hartopp. Who was Capitaine John Ingram and why was his title French with his English name? He must have had some claim for fame in France at that time. And I find Charles de Mills a strange juxtapposition of names, too. And which name is correct, Marie Pavie or Marie Pavic? The most important thing for a book of this kind is of course that it is entertaining and well written. Is it?

I find Charles de Mills a strange juxtapposition of names, too

*** Brent Dickerson believes that the correct name for this rose was:
'Charles de Vills.'

JUMBOJIMMY -- You bought the new Australian book today???? In a bookstore?

Jeri

Speaking of....someone picked up "Crimson Ladies and Crimson Gents" for me....its an exquisite little book. The accompanying photos would make Luanne drool - the author said he wanted to create photos that would rival Roudoute (sp?)..its about the origin of some of these names -- who were these people?

It came from Borders.

Authors are Molly and Don Glentzer.

"I find Charles de Mills a strange juxtapposition of names, too"

This is almost certainly a mangled mis-spelling of its original name. This would explain why we can't find any substantial documentation of it. I mean, why can't we find any record of what must have been one of the most spectacular Gallicas introduced in its time?? You can be sure this is not its real name. People tend to spell rose names wrong even today (How many times have I heard people say 'Cecil Brunner' and not Cecile???), so its not hard to imagine that the real name may have only vaguely sounded like 'Charles de Mills'.

Jon, thank you so much for making us aware of this book. I remember well Roger Mann's discussions of the origin on rose names, discussions that involved you and I think Kaylah as well. I'm recalling a series of threads called How Do You Pronounce followed by HDYP #2 and I think also HDYP #3. They were wonderful. Those who joined the forum after Roger Mann's departure miss so much.

I will certainly make a point of getting his new book as soon as it becomes available here in the United States. His earlier book Roses never was released here, but I tracked down a copy anyway. While I never met him, I'd had enough online conversations that he seemed to be an acquaintance, so I wanted to read his book. I'll do the same again with Naming the Rose if necessary. Please do let us know how you like it once you have your own copy in hand!

Thanks also for the link to hear his radio broadcast. I enjoyed that.

Rosefolly

There was a Charles de Berard Mills in New York City. He was an abolitionist who wrote a book about Buddhism. Wrong time frame for the date given for the rose(1746), but some Berards turn up at familysearch.com in France in the right timeframe. The breeder's name was Busard. Found a family of them during the right time frame in France. One of them married a Francoise Gillot.
Anyhow, curious persons could read his book. Click on the little arrows at the right to turn the pages.

Here is a link that might be useful: Charlie's Book

Paul,
'Cecil Brunner' is the way the French pronouce it.
I'm French and I have a sister named Cécile, which I pronouce 'Cé - seal'. approx.

Can't way to see that book!
Jocelen.

Yes - I bought the book from a bookstore, because I live in Australia. :)

Now, I'm waiting for David Austin's new book, 'The Rose'. Gosh, how long does it take for that book to be avaliable!

Jocelen,
Respectfully, when American's pronounce it "Cecil", they are definitely inferring the male gender, and so I regard this as a misnomer on this continent. :-)

Paul

Thanks Jon. I've put it on my Christmas list. Hopefully, it will be available here by then. If not, I'll put it on my birthday list. :-)

Carol

Paul,
I agree completely.
Jocelen.

Just an update - Amazon tell me I should get my copy late Nov/early Dec - that's a bit more hopeful :)

Roger sent me a link for another radio interview, should anyone like to hear more of those elegant tones ( and with music, this time :)

Best wishes
Jon

Here is a link that might be useful: More from the Mann man, man!

As I said, Jon and Rog never argued about anything at all. It was me. All through his radio interview I thought of arguments about roses in cold climates, scents, stuff like that.
He no longer looks like my brother Bob. Many of my relatives are blessed with never going gray. It is a Bohemian quirk.
That was a beautiful conversation from a Bangkok/Irishman/ Indian/English Australian.
I kept thinking about the Australian I met once, whose name was Dale, pronounced Doyle.
I hope his books sells well. It's all about us, isn't it? You couldn't come up with a language more universally understood than the rose.

Roger's book is beautifully written - he has a amazing knowledge of all plantlife including roses & camellias. I'm one of the photographers mentioned. We worked on this book for over 2 years and had some wonderful photos from Paul and a handful of others. Thankyou Jon for starting this discussion - it does bring back some wonderful memories chatting on here again!