Hi Melissa, In case you want something else, I've found hebe does well for me in clay. It has even grown in clay so hard that i had to bash the ground to make a hole for it. I used tube stock.And apart from getting it established. I don't water it, and we have had a lot of long, dry periods. Of course, it doesn't get much bigger than a metre, or at least the ones I've got don't.There's a datura growing in the same spot, that I didn't plant. it's about 3-4 m high, and has pretty blue flowers and orange berries.

maybe phillyrea latifolia and its thinner leaved cousin, P.angustifolia.....or ilex crenata (there is a variety 'green lustre').

Will give this more thought.

Ps, I don't mind privet and have happy memories of releasing stick insects into various neighbour's hedges. Not keen on the variegated stuff though.

Our farm is 200+ years old. Someone along the way got some privet, and you've given me the thought that they were as pleased as you are at finding something that grows in this heavy red clay.

Problem is: it can grow too well. Ours can get twenty feet tall. And in this part of the world, the seeds are produced by the thousands from each mature tree. There are years when I wonder if all have been eaten and redeposited in our flower beds, where 50% sprout.

Bridal wreath is my alternative plant ...it can handle this clay and doesn't spread that aggressively. Its dense growth is perfect habitat for the very small birds, as well.

Privet...one woman's trash is another's treasure.

"Privet!" was one of the first words about gardening I learned from my FIL when we moved into our house 25 years ago. He definitely used it as a pejorative, I think because at least around here privet DOES grow, and seed itself everywhere, and grow - if you turn around you will have a privet lawn or thicket in no time.

Ours is California privet - ligustrum ovalifolium. I'll bet I have weeded out thousands of privet seedlings in the last 25 years, if not more. One good thing I can say about them - they are easy to pull up. If you get them when they are up to about 4 feet tall, you do not have to dig at all - even I can just pull them, and they come right up.

If you leave them alone in our area, they will make a tree (not bush) that is 20 feet tall and about 15 feet wide at the top - we have one that was established before we moved in here - I suspect it is the source of most of the seedlings. I do love that the birds love the little blue/purple seeds - once a year in the Fall we usually get a large flock of cedar wax wings that show up to eat them, and the rest of the time the tree is full of all sorts of other birds.

They seem to live forever, too. There is a property in our town that my DH's great grandparents moved out of in 1905 when they bought our house. We have old picture of that house, showing a privet hedge along the sidewalk in front of the property. We know the people who now live in that house - they restored it after about 90 years of neglect. That privet hedge has morphed into a row of about 8 huge privet trees - the trunks must be 18-24 inches in diameter. That property was originally built in the 1880s, so that would make those trees over 130 years old!

Anyway, I always look at privet hedges when people put them in a sort of fascination, knowing if they ever stop pruning them, the privet have plans.....

Jackie

years ago, when I first started gardening, I came across one of those lists - you know, which plant for dry soil, north/south/whatever aspect, drought resistance, ease of establishment and so on. Anyway, ligustrum was listed in every single category. Blimey, I thought, I'll have some of that.....only to almost weep in disappointment, on finding out what 'ligustrum' was.

Job one immediately after moving here was to remove the twenty or so large-ish privet trees that had been allowed to grow in the garden. Fortunately, the wood is fairly soft and I was able to remove them myself with only a few harrowing moments.

After spending many hours removing thousands of seedlings everywhere (but especially under the oak tree, they migrate in via cedar waxwings feasting on the berries on neighbors' trees), my thoughts have usually darkened to considering what dreadful punishments would be appropriate for those who harbor this invasive pest.

I am not a fan of large-leaved privets, obviously! In San Mateo Co., they invade creek habitats. They are also very susceptible to oak root fungus. Interesting that the small-leaved ones are not invasive where you are, Melissa. They do seem to be elsewhere -- these differences in habit are always intriguing, and maybe based on seemingly minor differences in habitat.

I grow Phlomis fruticosa, monophylla, and purpurea. Bullet-proof in the worst soils, on slopes, and with very little water -- and they do manage to always look presentable (with a little dead-heading).

I also have phlomis fruticosa and love its pineapple-like fragrance but it is not doing terribly well in its hot spot and decomposed granite. The best plant I've found for that sort of location is rosemary, which is beginning to bloom now. Almost every other plant that is supposed to love the heat and poor soil has bitten the dust in the hottest areas of my garden.

Ingrid

I have a line of weeping bamboo that I love. It grows without much water and the fallen leaves make a feather soft place for cats to take a shady nap. When the leaves are turned into the soil, they break down quickly. I can use the long stems for projects and tomorrow, I will cut a number of them and leave the leaves on to make an instant hedge for Halloween. I like to make a narrow path through two rows of these cut pieces pushed into the ground. The kids love to go through the tunnel of the soft feathery leaves. I weave little purple lights through it all.
This is a picture I found of a bamboo similar to mine.

Another plant I like is my bottle brush tree that cascades over the gate. Hummingbirds like to nest there. If I had the space I would add a few lemon scented eucalyptus trees for the beautiful fragrance and if I had even more room, I would get a California Pepper.

Privet leaves are so beautiful and glossy. They remind me of Camellia leaves the way that they shine and reflect the blue in the sky.

Here is Chicago Peace pretending to be a camellia for Halloween

Nice answers, folks. Kitty, I like your rose photo! I've thought about bamboo but haven't been able to get it started. Perhaps down in the drainage of the woodland? The garden in the photo looks impossibly green compared to my conditions.
I certainly don't blame anyone for disliking privet, but it works for me. I don't know why mine doesn't seed, possibly the garden environment is just too hostile still. I've certainly wondered whether lack of summer irrigation with our normal drought doesn't limit all kinds of plant invasive behavior in my garden.
Titian, I may have to rethink hebe, which I know has great virtues and is a well-regarded plant. For some reason I just don't like it, a matter of personal taste. Suzy, thanks for the suggestions. I have Phyllirea latifolia in the garden and like it, though it has been extremely slow-growing for me, no doubt because of the gray cement I planted it in. It's rather difficult to find here. The narrow-leaved species is easier to locate but too angular and spiky for my taste.
I love variegated plants but believe in using them with caution. The yellow-variegated privet--I think it's California privet--really is a pretty plant, though. The yellow isn't garish, and it harmonizes with the green. I have to admit it suffers in a hot sunny position in summer and is rather ugly in winter, too, but a well-sited plant is very satisfactory, one of the best yellow-variegated shrubs.
Thanks for all this reportage on ligustrum, folks. I have a happy memory from elementary school of sitting on a low limestone retaining wall under a flowering Ligustrum japonica. Perhaps that memory is why I have a certain fondness for the genus.

I was forced to cut my original post short because we had a thunderstorm on top of us and I had to turn off the computer. I had intended to add Salvia greggii to my list of perfect plants, including the variety 'Hotlips'. This delicate-looking plant is another great survivor, able to live in heavy and in thin soil, surviving drought and sodden winter soil. My plain S. greggii planted close to our front door is now about six feet wide and healthy as a horse.
I came late to Salvias as ornamentals, but what a great group. My Salvia guaranitica has just started to bloom. It gets frozen back to the ground every winter, grows through the summer, and starts opening its electric blue-violet flowers in mid-fall. It's a leggy creature: my plant's stems reach eight feet and sprawl all through the garden. I love it. I should say that it likes some shade and a bit of water now and then.
Catspa, I'm pretty sure I have Phlomis fruticosa, am not certain of the names of the others. I may have five or six kinds, possibly more. Tell me, is P. purpurea perennial? I have a Phlomis-looking plant of mysterious origins; it has purple flowers, appears to be biennial, and seeds itself about. All my sure Phlomis kinds are perennial.

Melissa

Hi. Melissa! It's always interesting to hear about your garden. I'll have to find some Ligustrum for my own garden; I had one old,negleted one that had been struggling along in a pot for who knows how long, and tried planting it out, but I think it was too old and weak to really take. Then I tried moving it, and it died.But I see mature trees of them and do like them(not the varigated ones, however.) Around here, everybody seems to have this large-leafed evergreen hedging plant that might be a member of this family; it roots very easily. I am only just starting to add trees and shrubs to my garden, really; I haven't yet finished with the rose portion! Until I do, perennials, etc. will have to stay on the back-burner, I think.
I'm finding that salvia can be really a bit over-enthusiastic (I mean the blue kind; I don't like the annual red kind AT ALL). It self-sows all over the place, and grows so vigorously that it's too competitive to be allowed near young rose plants. I'm looking forward to when I've got the basic structure of my garden established, and then can start having fun with perennials,but the rose come first. By the way,I was a wee bit shocked over this summer to see that it was necessary to water my newly planted wisteria vines and the new trees ( cypress,Okame cherry, and cercis siliquastrum) a lot more than the baby roses!
By the way, how did the bare-root roses from the Petrovic nursery work out? I'm curious to know; their prices seem so low;I can't help but wonder about the quality of the plants! I just went ahead and ordered from my usual companies this year (well, actually 2 new ones). What do you think of Petrovic? bart

An evergreen shrub I grew in an awful caliche soil in Dallas is the wax myrtle, morella cerifera. I thought it was a very graceful plant and loved the fragrance and berries. Anything that lovely that could grow in that miserable soil was a perfect plant to me.

I have a salvia gregii also that I grow here on a berm - it thrives despite our three summer months of no rain and I rarely remember to water it. I've admired salvia guaranitica - it's called 'black and blue' salvia in Alabama, but have never grown it. My favorite salvia here is a white that blooms whether it is sunny or not. I used to grow the annual salvia farinacea 'Victoria' every year. I love the smell of salvias.

I am also a fan of hebes; I am growing 'Red Edge' hebe on the shady side of a bed with r. glauca and with a santolina on the sunnier side of it. I like all the blending greys and hope that none of them fuss too much about not enough sun or too much. R. glauca is two feet tall now; maybe it will bloom next year. The 'Red Edge' is hardy to zone 7 although I have read that many hebes are not very hardy at all, but the couple I have tried are pretty drought tolerant.

Here, western sword fern is probably the perfect plant, happy and well adapted to low pH, wet or dry weather, and I've found that when I dig them up and run them through the shredder, they make great mulch.

Hello, Bart! I'm always pleased to talk about my garden, and glad to hear about yours.
There are several different ligustrums common in Italy. The two I like are the common, small-leafed hedging privet, I think the botanical name is Ligustrum obtusifolium, and California privet, L. ovalifolium, with slightly larger leaves of a fresher green, and needing a bit more water. There are other privets around, including a large-leafed one that reaches tree size; there's a yellow-variegated form I often see: this variety doesn't do anything for me, it's rigid for my taste. And L. japonicum, with very glossy dark green leaves like a camellia, common as grass in Florida, not as well adapted as others to my garden, though I have three chlorotic plants due to DH's activities while my back was turned. Two other common evergreen hedging shrubs are photinia or red-top, another old friend from Florida, and, chief of all evergreen hedging shrubs, English laurel, lauroceraso, Prunus laurocerasus. The photinia wandered into our garden by accident and at least in shade is more drought tolerant and all-resistant than I would have given it credit for. It has rather pleasant foliage. English laurel is horribly over- and misused. It doesn't like full sun or being kept too low, but I've seen a hedge 10' x 6', under a big old oak, that was honestly handsome. I had to battle a hedge of English laurel at my old house in Washington and I'm not fond of the plant. I could say more about my experiences with evergreen shrubs and hedging shrubs, but I don't know what you would be interested in hearing, and also am not in the best of health at the moment.
Is your blue salvia the native S. pratensis? We have that, and I agree you have to watch it, but it's handsome and tough. It grows by the side of the road and in neglected fields here. The red one I'm familiar with but am not sure of the name, but I dislike masses of bright color in bedding schemes. Culinary sage is good-looking, except in winter when it gets shabby; it flowers handsomely and has good foliage and fine drought tolerance. Mine self-seeds. The cultivar 'Ictarina' can take just about anything and is the prettiest yellow-variegated plant I know. I have the highest opinion of S. greggii for a dry garden, for beauty and for toughness. There are a lot of fabulous sages out there. What I have have all been passed on to me by various gardening friends.
The Petrovic roses were entirely satisfactory and I recommend the nursery, however you have to make a big order to justify the shipping and import charges. It's worth it. The selection of varieties of wonderful. I wasn't able to organize myself this year for another large order, but am hoping to be able to do so in a year's time. I adore all those once-blooming old roses, even though we need a cool spring for them to bloom well. I'd put them all down in the shade garden if I could, but there's just not enough room for them.

Gean, we had wax myrtles in Florida, too, but they're not even listed in Dirr's Manual. I'm always suspicious of plants from the eastern U.S. for my garden here, as rainfall patterns are so different in the two places. The Pacific Northwest is climatically much closer, of course. I've been working clearing and even planting a couple of things down in the woods below the shade garden, and getting excited about the potential for a whole different flora than what grows out in the sunny garden. It's already pretty there, and I've hardly even begun planting yet.

Melissa

Melissa,
Morella cerifera is listed in a couple of places in Dirr's latest book on trees and shrubs. I would not try to convince you to try or not try anything, but did want to mention its place in that book. I also found an article on it here, with a mention by Dirr and some pictures of various varieties. Apparently it can handle about anything.

Your garden descriptions are always interesting, Melissa!

Here is a link that might be useful: wax myrtle

Not a fan of privet myself, but there is a lot to be said for plants that do well in difficult circumstances.

This spring I completely reworked a bed that had grown unkempt, removing the phlomis that grew there. It was overgrown and invading territory I wanted for less aggressive plants. Looking at my garden this morning I noticed that a little baby phlomis is emerging. Another day I might have pulled it out and discarded it, but this morning it made me happy to see it surviving.

Rosefolly

Ruže su lijepe. Komunizam je naš prijatelj. Sve govora mora biti provjereni za poštivanje stranačke doktrina.

This post was edited by plan9fromposhmadison on Thu, Nov 7, 13 at 21:33

This posting does not reflect well on you, Posh9 - the accepted terminology for 'white trash' is 'chav' in the UK. Personally, i dislike both terms intensely....

Of course, feel free to ignore or even mention pots and kettles since I can be more than contentious myself,

I find the term objectionable too. Posh, I must ask you not to insult people on this thread. I can't speak for other threads, but feel a responsibility for this one since I began it.
The forum is an open one that welcomes anyone who wants to talk about roses and is ready to accept rules for civil coexistence. It hurts the good functioning of the forum if posters call names, it can silence and drive away people who could otherwise make a contribution. The world, and the forum, aren't divided into "us" and "them". We are all "we", and we all have a right to be here and be treated with courtesy.
Melissa

Or a redirect to Hot Topics - a few here are not strangers there and it is a bit more.....robust