We had our backyard landscaped. It was bare new construction. We first had 3 plans done by different landscapers. It cost us about $500 for the plans.

We didn't have a full blown landscape, (mostly because we couldn't afford it) but we did get a lot of grading, stone steps down to our back yard, a fence, many pine and specimen trees and sod done.

We actually went with the guy who just drew something on paper, but his vision was what we wanted. The rest wouldn't work with us or do what we really wanted.

from my understanding..( this might be different from area to area).. you have the option of paying a designer just to design, or to follow all the way through with the actual landscaping..so if you're lost for a place to start you can just hire a landscaper for the design part and save money by doing the work yourself. i'd start by going to different designers and asking to see their portfolios..this way you can get an idea if you two are even in the same ballpark..once you find one with work that wow's you..ask for an estimate on design work..most people are happy to tell you up front what the ballpark figure would be..if they won't..keep shopping!also..there's some design programs for sale..but my experience is that you pretty much have to know what you want first, then plug it in..but it can be a good tool if you have ideas and an imagination! drive around..go to local gardens..you never know what will spark you!! good luck...donna

On the other hand, letting a landscape/garden design evolve over the years as you work with your yard has its own joys and satisfactions. And the nice things is that if you don't like the design you come up with, you can dig it up and try another.

Unless, of course, you want instant landscape. In which case you pay the big bucks and hire a designer who will produce the whole things for you within a relatively short time.

If you do it yourself, don't try to do everything at one. You might, for instance, decide you want a big circle bed in back with a birdbath in the middle. Just work on that for the time being. Later consider other things you would like to add.

If by landscape you mean lots of hardscape (rather than garden plants), that's a completely different issue, one that I know little about.

Good luck,
Kate

dublin, that's what we did, we just got the 'back bone' done, which was grading, the stone steps going down to the backyard (which was also necessary to secure the pile of clay our builder left, which was in danger of collapsing and destroying our driveway).

We also put a cement patio in the area underneath our deck, which is wonderful in the hot summer to go sit in the shade.

It's been a few years and we've added cryptomerias and other plants here's some before and after and current pics...

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A landscape architect is for hardscape (concrete, retaining walls, pool, spa...) grading, drainage, placement of fencing and so on.

A garden designer is for plantings and minor hardscapes like pathways made of flagstone.

We had a landscape architect for the hardscape--our new house had bare ground and nothing else. We gave her a general idea of what we wanted. She wasn't the best, was recommended by the builder. If I had had it to do over again I would have gotten someone else. She really didn't know anything about plants--she was accustomed to planting the exact same "low maintenance" plants that every other yard has: rapheolepsis, agapanthus, privit. I know that is what most people want, something the mow-blow guys can't screw up. We told her we didn't want any rapheolepsis, agapanthus, or privit, and she was kind of at a loss for what to do. I ended up ripping out just about every plant she had put in and replanted everything with roses. She'd put azaleas and camellias in full blazing sun on the south side of the house, for example. LAs may know their hardscape, but some of them just don't know plants (I think the good ones do). They have a standard pallet of what doesn't die easily and use it over and over again.

If you go with a professional service you are going to get the best value for your money (and get what you really want) by reading as many books as you can and understanding the process and the designer's point of view.

One basic book I found really helpful was "Design Your Garden" by Diarmuid Gavin. Unlike a lot of garden design books that show grand estates, or "here's what I did in this yard" which are not very helpful unless you have a grand estate or that particular yard, it has a very good approach: the author goes through the various types of yards out there (long and narrow, wide and shallow, square) and gives variations on what you could do with spaces like that. There's a chapter on different styles (formal, informal, etc), on thinking about function that fits your lifestyle (place for kids, pets, naps, etc). It's a very helpful book and not expensive--you might be able to get it at your local library.

buford--
I loved seeing your before and after pictures. I can see why you wanted some help with that steep incline--I think you got your money's worth. Love those curving steps.

If I had a particular challenge like Buford did, I might get assistance from a professional, but otherwise, like roseman, I take pride in what I designed myself. I remember spending part of one winter laying out my green hose on the white snow in various shapes and designs, and then staring out the kitchen window at them to get the long, panaramic view--running out in the cold and adjusting the hose here and there, back to the kitchen window, etc. By spring, I had the exact curve I wanted on the west bed which extends from the house to the back alley. I still have that design today, though the plants have changed over time (more roses now, of course). It was worth the time I spent that winter planning out the overall shape of that west bed.

Kate

One thing to remember about Landscape Architects is that, generally speaking, they don't know DIDDLY about plants.

Most landscape architects in CA know the name of one rose: 'Iceberg.'
(Iceberg's a terrific rose, but it does not fill every purpose.)
In other parts of the country, they've likely learned 'Knockout.'

Our garden wasn't "designed." It just sort of expanded down the hill. The roses make it what it is.
But I have worked with prestigious landscape architects on local public projects.
In all cases, I've found that while their hardscape talents may (or may not) be worthwhile,
their recommendations on plants should (to put it mildly) be second-guessed.

Jeri

Why would people become landscape architects if they aren't interested in plants?

The architect part is the 'hardscape'. I was lucky the guy I worked with was interested in plants as he told me his mamma taught him everything he knew about plants. Oh, and he was a master gardener.

But even so, after the yard was leveled and the workers put down the outline for the sod/flower beds, I did go around with my own can of paint and redraw them.

It's your yard, you are going to have to live with it. You ask for a basic plan and then you can alter it. Same as with any other design.

> Why would people become landscape architects
> if they aren't interested in plants?

*** Dunno.
Maybe they're INTERESTED in them, but more interested in DESIGN???

But when I am face to face with a person, and that person is recommending for a historic site,
plants most-commonly-seen around corner gas stations ...

Or, when the person says: "And here, a long bed of gardenias . . ."

To which, my puzzled reply is: "Do you have in mind a specific gardenia hybrid that will tolerate our conditions?"

And the answer is: "Oh! They don't grow well here, either?"

Well, that shakes my confidence in that person's skills and perceptions in the making of gardens.
So, I think, before you commit yourself to a Landscape Architect, you need to know that you, and they
are on the same page.

Jeri

All designers have some problems with reality. What is on paper and a computer cannot make up for nature and climates and species of plants.
It is the knowlege of good planning,horticulture, history and nature that makes a lasting design.

Designed professionally? All that means is paying someone for a garden design. I reject the suggestion that using a garden designer reflects poorly on the gardener's creativity and enterprise. Building sites on steep lots in the California hills are challenging on many levels. It's one thing to plant a flat city lot that's a quarter an acre. It's very different to deal with the cliffs where many of us live in the west. A west- or south-facing cliff with steady coastal winds...20 inches of rain a year....6 months of drought a year....deer...building codes that don't allow fencing...think again.

Landscape design is something else. Landscape design is the overall site plan and layout of the components of a project on the land. Most houses don't need much. If you are building on raw land, the relationship of the buildings to the views, the recreation, the access roads, is all the domain of the landscape architect. It can be smart or it can be stupid. The plant materials are in essence replaceable plug-in units to serve the purposes of design - - screening, privacy, shade, scale, plants to set off architecture, that sort of thing.

Many garden designs reflect appalling landscape design - - think of all the 100 foot trees be planted within 20 feet of houses or walkways that march up to narrow little entrances with no shade. It's equally clear that many landscape designs are boring garden design with common plant materials that are designed to do nothing more than survive the 12 month period of the landscape contractor's warranty.

No, I never had my gardens designed professionally, although I was required to use a landscape architect to situate the buildings and outbuildings within the building envelope and to submit a site plan as part of the planning process to get a building permit. I have worked with one landscape contractor for the past 10 years. He's got the labor to implement my garden designs. Besides that, he and his crew are genius with stone. My days of hauling boulders are long gone.

When my husband and I bought our home, it came with a few trees and a flat, bare yard. What we did, and what may or may not be available to you, was to go to a garden center whose owner was a landscape architect. We took him the site plan, and in about 2 minutes he sketched out the broad outlines of what is our landscape today. It was amazing to me that he could take a totally blank canvas and create garden rooms on it so quickly. I'd been trying to do something like that for frustrating hours and had never gotten anywhere. He even planned our deck. I said, "I want some kind of wraparound deck", not expecting anything, just meaning, don't put plants here, and he said "Well, I can't resist a challenge like that", and in a minute or two, had a beautiful, original, unique, useful plan that we have loved for 20 years. I would have paid money for these services, but he did it all for free, with the understanding that we would purchase a lot of the plants we would need from his nursery, which we did. Over the years, I have changed several areas of the yard, adding and subtracting, but the broad outlines are still his. He also knew his plants. He laid out the landscape with specific plants, some of which I used, and some of which I substituted as I learned what grew for me and what didn't.
For me, having help with the overall concept was priceless, but within the rooms he designed, the plants themselves are all my choices.

I once talked to a Landscape Archiect who said that there is basically no money in garden plantings. It's all in the grading, walls, spas, BBQs, Decks, whatever. He said, people are lazy and won't care for plants with special needs. They throw in a basic irrigation system. Put in tough to kill plants and sod and then they don't have to come back and replace plants that the homeowners killed out of ignorance or neglect. This is where he said you can lose money and have to deal with fussy/ grouchy people.
He thinks the effort to put in unique plantings is a no win situation with most people. I've seen yard re-dos and almost never do they bring in the right soil for what they plant. Azaleas plopped into clay in full sun. No amandments of any kind for most plants. Lawns scraped of all their rich top soil and sod plunked down on top of what's left.

Any time I had work done, the workmen left trash and debris. I caught them pouring cement cleanup water near gardenias and camellias at my neighbors home and dirty paint water under fruit trees in the back when she had her place renovated. When our next door pain in the neck had a block wall put up, the masons splattered mortar all over my plants and brick walk. I had to clean it all myself before it dried.

I would say to you, if you want walkways or walls or anything painted, do it before you think about planting. Then bring in good soil and fix all the issues the construction team left you with such as trash and compacted soil or soil that's contaminated. Then if yoou want, have someone who really loves plants come and help you. But with all the improvements to the soil, I think it would save lots of money to do most of that part yourself.

By the way, I was wondering......Most work crews always seem to look for an inconspicuous spot to dump contaminated water or trash and I am watching them like hawks but even so, they manage to do it on the sly and I find it later on. How do you all handle this situation? I don't have barren areas of the yard to use. When I paint, I just throw away the paint trays and such in a garbage bag and wipe the brushed out with a rag so there is not much paint left to clean in the sink. I see house painters cleaning their spraying equipment on people's lawns and I'm scared to have anyone over for this reason. Can you insist that they not clean their stuff in your yard?

Yes.
My husband is a contractor and he is a site clean up expert. He has all of his painters clean over lawns, not in the gutters. Most paint is water based and all extra paint in pans or cans must be disposed correctly.
No garbage is ever left on site and illegal dumping is a firing offense.
That said...
I call the city if I ever see illegal dumping practices. Fines are very stiff in California.

I teeter-totter on using a garden designer for my rose garden,
which is a small rose garden as it's the only full sun area of the
part of the property with gardens. I only have about 25 roses
and am thinking of editing that amount so I can concentrate
on growing my very favorite ones the best I can. Giving
them proper room and air circulation. I think I can manage
to create a rose garden that appeals to me over time. Part
of the fun for me is improving the garden every season as my
knowledge of gardening and roses grows. Still, I may just
bolt and get someone to create it all for me, but they better
make the right plant choices. And no Iceburg and no
bouganvilla, so common in California.

Right Steve. But you forgot the polyethylene raccoon and dwarf.

I have always been a do-it-yourself guy. I guess I prefer something mediocre that I designed vs. paying someone to give me perfection. Sadly, I have reached the age where hauling rocks and hand grading are beyond me. Damn! I still have so many mistakes to correct.

When I bought the house, I really bought the land and the house, nothing special, just came with it.

I think it has a lot to do with your vision of what you are looking for, and the energy, planning and money you want to put into it.

I think that I may have a hard time selling it as most people would envision "WORK" and look for a postage stamp yard that seems to be the norm. We are not planning on moving. I would just as soon be buried there next to my dog; Augusta L. Pooch. The Troll can fend for herself.

Right now it is in a process of transition (RRD.) The Troll gave the go ahead for some more roses. I am looking forward for some input from Cupshaped Roses this winter. Should be interesting.

Foghorn

you forgot the polyethylene raccoon and dwarf.

*** I don't have the raccoon, but I have the dwarf, some frogs, Saint Francis, and a stone dog with a basket in his mouth. :-)
Any landscape designer worth his salt would blanch at the sight.

Jeri

This past June, we had our long front border redo planned by the "designer" (not landscape architect who does whole yards)from the landscape company which does our lawn. With the exception of a tree and certain shrubs, the company then removed the existing vegetaion, added and roto-tilled in compost, planted new plants, and added top dressing. We are extremely happy. In the past, the two or three weedings I would do each summer were 12-16 hour affairs. Now each weeding takes about 1.5 hours. The plants recommended by the designer are working out very well. One thing which I think was helpful was to come up with a written set of goals for the new border. This, plus a detailed walk-through of the area, provided the designer with the information she needed to come up with a plan that met our needs and then some.

Good luck!

Kay

I am a believer in driving around your local area, looking at other's yards and seeing what works well. You can focus in on a north wall or a hot west exposure or whatever. I like to get the impression or feeling that it gives me. Then you can recreate it with the same features or go for something similar. I finally re-worked the north side of our home. The walk up to the door was not welcoming at all. It was shady so roses were out. Finally I saw a great solution with river rocks and a little water feature. The key to the idea was to keep it all green and some varigated green and white foliage but no colors other than green and white. Now it has the same relaxing look as the place I got the inspiration from. I feel very low stress walking up to the door. The street is a riot of roses and color, but up near the door it's cool and quiet. Like Yosemite in spring with it's rocks and ferns and running water.

So find out what it is you are craving or else figure out what challenges you have to work around and then start driving- looking for a possible solution. I love to look at books and magazines but inevitably, half the things need a cold winter...hostas, lily of the valley, peonies. I would love to grow sweet woodruff. That's why I think it's good to see what's doing well in the area that has the same weather you have.

Buford, that is quite a transformation! I think you definitely got your money's worth!

And Steve, that's funny.....but I can see a number of front yards in our neighbourhood with just that scenario. Maybe not with roses, but other plants.

I have thought of the idea of a landscape designer to have a look at our place. It's a difficult location, it's on a slope, and the grade is steep in some places. But what has stopped me so far?

1. My yard is a sanctuary where I keep myself involved and busy. I always have to have a project active at all times. For example, I just completed an arbour early this year. Installed flagstone paving. Put in a shed. Cleared some climbers. Got rid of topiary dwarf cedars. Etc. Next projects - putting in paving behind the garage, installing water reservoirs, reroof the green house. Those are the things I enjoy and those are the projects that keep me going. I simply can't fathom the idea of having someone else take the pleasure of the thinking and conceiving and labour for me. It's like a child paying someone else big bucks to snatch the candies out of his/her very own hands!

2. My yard is a laboratory of continuous experimentation. I am a restless gardener. I find myself constantly doing "something" to the yard - including ripping up something and implementing somethng new in it's place. I can't imagine paying thousands of dollars to have someone else design and landscape the property - because I know that in the years to come, I will find myself systematically dimantling the very work that I paid big bucks for.

3. I am a plantaholic - a plant hoarder. My backyard is more of an arboretum than a garden. I will probably go into deep depression if any landscape designer should come up with a scheme that is going to mean losing some of the plants.

On the other hand, I have many friends who simply are not into the kind of gardening stuff that I do. For them, the somewhat haphazard style of our property is simply not their cup of tea. They want something that looks good, without having to take the time out of their busy schedule to either design or implement landscape plans. Almost all who have used landscape designers and landscape contractors have been happy with the result. The only thing they uniformly find hard to swallow is the cost involved in getting a landscape scheme designed and implemented.

And lets give kudos to the landscape designers - good designers can make a huge difference to the final outcome. Think of all the factors that they have to consider - color, texture, line, form and scales, and the principles of unity, balance, transition, rhythm, proportion, etc. And then they have to unify function with style. I have been reading Robin Willams' books on garden design, but I still have difficulty looking 10 feet beyond my immediate surrounding - let alone come up with a master scheme for the whole yard!