These are almost certainly yellow jackets, communal wasps that nest in the ground. They defend the nest ferociously. You need to get rid of them now, because they get even more aggressive later in the fall. You're lucky to have received only two stings.

What I have done is get a wasp/hornet aerosol and spray the nest heavily at night. However, I suggest you search up a few web pages on yellow jecket control before proceeding. I don't want to be responsible for getting you stung again.

Yes, I'm online now trying to find out as much as I can. Problem is, I didn't really get a chance to see them (the time between shaking the vine - spreading over a 6ft fence, btw, not at ground level - realising what was happening and getting stung was maybe 10 seconds or less) so I'm not sure what we're dealing with here. There is no evidence of ANYTHING out there at all now - as before, it's still and there are no hovering insects.

One clue, perhaps: there were some holes in the ground by this area, mabye 3-4" across; I noticed this morning that the boys who did the work had filled them in. Could this be related?

Thanks again for any info. This one is scary, especially due to my very bad reaction to stings (and yes, we keep an Epipen in the house just in case!!)

Go back to the area where the nest is suspected. From 20 feet away you will be able to see bees coming and going from the nest. Since you know the general area where the nest is it should be easy to find. If your eyesight is not as good as it was those boys could easily see them. I have found many yellow jacket nests this way.

Lance

BeesÂnest is above ground. You need to make sure that it is bees nest behind the vines by taking a flashlight to check at night when theyÂre inactive. They looked like bees the way you described - swamp of them. Wasps/yellow jackets would be few in between.

Bees attacked because their nest was disturbed, and you didnÂt know it was there. You can relocate the whole nest to another part of your garden or somewhere in the woods. Waiting until evening when theyÂre all inside the nest resting. A flash light or lantern may be needed to see in the dark. Wear gloves. Carefully cut any twine that the nest attached to, and use a plastic bag to hold the nest. Place the nest up high on a tree branch or some where that raccoon, etc. canÂt touch it. A piece of galvanized wire (old cloth hanger) can be inserted through the top portion of the nest to use as handle when you tie/hang the nest onto a tree branch. DonÂt worry about getting stung at night, as the bees wonÂt be able to move around or fly during their golden slumber. You can do the same for wasps nest. But if youÂre apprehensive, contact an animal control office of your county and they can take care of it.

This is the weird thing: both my husband and I have looked out at that area, and there is STILL no evidence of flying insects there. (The holes are now filled up, so not sure what that will lead to). I have to keep aware of stinging insects because I typically have such a strong reaction to them, but I had NO CLUE that anything was there and, as I said above, we have never had any strays flying around food etc when we've eaten in the yard (nearer to the house, so about 20ft away, but even so - you'd have thought the food would attract them). It's cooler and raining today - would the fact that it's wet and not above 80 today affect their activity? I feel like step one is just to FIND them.

The other problem is that most of this brush concerened is on my neighbour's side of the fence, so I guess we're gonna have to attack this one jointly (and she just had her third baby on Weds - this is JUST what she needs at the moment!).

I guess as a start I'll see if those lads saw anything when they were out there yesterday that may lead us to a solution. I may well have to call in the pros - I hate to do it, and I do respect the job these insects do in the general ecosystem, but given how ill their stings make me I have to be pretty cautious.

Tx again - I'm so grateful for this forum's resourses I can't even begin to tell you!

I think I would call a beekeeper. PARTICULARLY since you are sensitive.

If it's really a healthy hive of bees, it's likely worthwhile to save it, but that is likely best done by someone who knows how to do it.

Jeri

Can someone give me some clues how to find yellow jacket nests? I know that I have it somewhere very close to my potting bench because if I work there I am continuously attacked by yellow jackets. This nest or nests should be in that area for years but I could not find the exact location of the nest.

Disclaimer: just a note that when I say "bees" I have no idea if that's what I mean - that's my generic for "buzzing stinging insects which are vaguely black and yellow". I do realise there's actually a difference, I just didn't get a good look at them when I was running that fast ;) They could absolutely be yellowjackets; I simply don't know.

What I do realise from my reading online (I've been googling and trying to find out more for the last couple of hours since I climbed out of the Benadryl stupor) is that what happened to me seems to be quite common in the US, unlike the climate in which I have gardened previously! Aiiiiii - I can see this is all part of the learning curve....

Ceterum, I hope somebody can help you with diagnostics, because after this morning's experience I can't think of much worse than finding it by accident... Sigh.

Yellow jackets are extremely aggressive, unlike bees which normally are too busy to notice humans. And bees nest in trees while yellow jackets nest in the ground. I noticed yellow jackets flying towards my front step a couple of years ago, checked carefully (from a distance) and noticed they were entering a hole. Got one of those wasp sprays that operates from a distance, waited until dark and then, flashlight in hand, sprayed the area and ran like mad. Got stung twice but no more yellow jackets.
Normally I have a non-agression pact with bees - I leave them alone and they leave me alone. But yellow jackets don't need any excuse - they attack because that's what they do.
I used to be very allergic to bees, wasps, yellow jackets and hornets and spent years getting shots - finally got desensitized so I don't go into shock when stung. Stings can be lethal so extreme caution is indicated.
If you can't find the nest or even if you do, get a professional to take care of it. Better safe than sorry.

Diva- bees are a much softer color than wasps. They are a fuzzy yellow & brown. Also, they only sting when bothered- nest disturbed or the bee is mashed (as in stepped on w/ bare feet in your yard). Wasps and yellow jackets have a much sharper shape-not fuzzy, and seem to sting anything that is around them. In some areas, the latter nest in the ground (though they don't seem to here). I lived in VA. for a long time and the most efficient way to find them there was to run the mower over them (I didn't say it was painless!). A very unfortunate way to find a nest.
As for locating them, as a non-expert, I would try putting a tasty bit of food, especially melon rind, a few feet away, then watch to see where they come from. Brandy

About three weeks ago I was sting from a yellow jacket, I was just looking under a leave of a plant. Yellow Jackets don't lose their stinger so they can sting more than one time. Like you I was very surprised since I didn't see anything flying around in that area. After being stung, I noticed the nests were in the eves of the roof, and my neighbor had them nest in her patio umbrella and along her back fence. I put moistened salt on the sting right away and it took the pain away, there wasn't any swelling, just a home remedy that I remembered from when I was a kid. If you locate the nest I would have someone else treat the nest, since if you miss they get really mad and swarm everywhere.
Diana

Be advised that if you find the nest and they are yellow jackets to have someone else take care of them. If you spray the nest at night and use a flashlight they use the light itself to locate your hand. Yellow jacket nests are only used for a single season and all of the wasps die during the late fall. A new group of queens are produced in the fall which fly away and find a nice dry place to overwinter.

There are two species of yellow jackets one of which nests in the ground and a second that uses trees.

Lance

Question:

My (current) plan is to go out at night - possibly even tonight since it's unusually cool - and spray Roundup on the offending vines/brush so that hopefully we can then SEE if/where there's a nest.

I was going to suit up so I'm fully covered, stand as far away as possible and spray the growth we want to get rid of (using the house attachement sprayer).

Does this sound a reasonable first step? Sorry if I'm sounding either a. paranoid or b. really idiotic, but, as I say, there's a major learning curve going on here!

Btw, STILL no evidence of flying anything out there. Nothing. Could be the cool temps, I suppose, but it's just weird for them to be so invisible most of the time!

My (current) plan is to go out at night - possibly even tonight since it's unusually cool - and spray Roundup on the offending vines/brush so that hopefully we can then SEE if/where there's a nest.

*** I don't know where you live, but I think if I were you, and whatever they are has exhibited aggression, I WOULD NOT TAMPER WITH THEM.
CALL A PROFESSIONAL.
Even if they are bees, rather than wasps, they could be dangerous.
Even in CA, we now have Africanized Bees, and my nephew was attacked by them last year.

There are just times when relying on a professional is the wisest thing to do.

Jeri

I don't think they will come out at night. However, divamum, being allergic, should get someone else to spray the Roundup just in case it does disturb them.

Yellow jackets' nests might have an entry hole as small as 1"-2" diameter in the ground. They often dig under rocks or into a bank.

The other possibility is hornets who make a paper nest hanging in the brush. These are usually quite conspicuous, and I think you probably would have seen it.

It is not bees. They are not very aggressive unless you break into the hive, which would be inside a hollow tree.

I had an issue, I think they were ground hornets. Huge someone said from my description that they call them circada killers down south. I actually used rose dust and it worked. I put it in the area. It was in a very travelled area and I have a 2 and 4 year old that I was quite worried for. I usually leave creatures be, but they had to go. With your allergy I would think that yours must disapear also.
If you have rose or flower dust give it a try.
Good luck,
Liane

Ok, small step forward, at least in figuring out what's going on. Went out to survey the scene, and I think my neighbour must have pulled some of the vine down from her side, because THIS is now visible:

{{gwi:318083}}

At least we can now identify the enemy... ;) I have absolutely no idea what they're hanging on - is that a nest, or...?

As ever, my grateful thanks for all the responses, as well as any further advice based on being able to see what caused the damage. I grew up in apartments except for my time in a house in Europe, and my husband is also European and we're feeling pretty clueless here!

(Sorry photo is so big - I left it that way so the details would be more visible to any who are knowlegeable in such matters and can figure out what we're dealing with here!)

Well so you know they were not bees. I don't mind bees..but I will admit that when I lived in California I was leery of bees because of the africanized honey bee, killer bees. These are some kind of hornet. They look nasty to me. Can you believe I have never in my life been stung by a bee or a wasp? NEVER. Weird huh? Anyway, here in Seattle we do not have the killer bees. But we get really agressive nasty little hornets..about 1/2 the size of those you have there. They are noisy nasty little buggers. Please don't hate bees because of these wasps or whatever they are. I do believe that is a nest they are building.

Since you are sensitive I would use that hornet/wasp spray. It sprays from a distance. Have someone else do the spraying. Sorry you got stung.

There are all kinds of people who could get rid of them for you. I would call them. My husband invested in a beekeeper's gear that he can use if he needs it. We also have allergies. But our biggest danger is to run into something, trip over a rock or rose, and take a bad fall trying to get away.

They have no respect and will follow you right into your house. I once thought that I would try to get into the shower if I were attacked, but I think I was told to use a fire extinguisher or of course wasp spray.

The most important thing is to not be alone.

SAmmy

These kind of paper wasps kill many bad bugs in your garden. Except for stinging you they mostly eat nothing but those nasty insects that you really hate eating your roses and other plants.

Since the number of wasps in a nest of this type is small that is why you did not notice them before. Yellow Jackets have as many as 3000 in a nest.

Lance

So maybe she should leave them alone? But since she is allergic I would be concerned. A spray will kill this many no problem.

So... are they paperwasps, then? That's what I guessed from the images I found online, but given that I (clearly!) don't know a thing about all this, I'd prefer somebody else to confirm my identification! (And, btw, that photo was snapped with a telephoto lens from some distance!)

The reason I couldn't see them before is because they were covered with vine weeds - they're very obviously there now!

I accept that they are good environmentally and all that, but they've built their house RIGHT where I'm clearing to create a new bed and thus in an area I can't really avoid at the moment, I'm allergic, and I have a young child who I need to protect from stings too. I guess my choices are to leave the area alone until it gets cold and then remove it, or find somebody else to do it for me now...

I'm also still concerned about the small holes that were in the ground, but since I have never seen any bees/wasps UNTIL today, and have now clearly found the source of today's attack I have to wonder whether that's a risk or not. I really really need to run the tiller in that area this week (since I go back to work the following week and won't have time!).

Uhoh. I must be turning into A Gardener, since achieving my planting goal is more motivating than fully avoiding scary stingers...

ItÂs always good to have a pic. Yes, they appear to be paper wasp, beneficial type. ThereÂs not much of a home left now at the site where it is exposed. The adults will migrate to a new location and the young will be eaten by other predators like birds. You donÂt need to do any un-necessary killing. I would stay away from the area and give them a few days to vacate.

Here is a link that might be useful: Paper wasp

Carry A tennis racket. Thats what I do.

A big THANK YOU to everybody! This has definitely been a, er, learning experience - now we know ::ouch::

Roseleaf, I would love to believe that they'll just move on, but inspection this morning (w/binoculars - I'm keeping my distance!) suggests that the wasp housing market must be slow, and they've chosen to remodel rather than move. Photobucket's down, so I can't post the pic I just snapped, but the nest is noticeably bigger this morning than it was last night. So, I have to figure out what to do.

I must confess, I find their behaviour fascinating, even though I need to keep a safe distance! I'm not surprised they went for me - the vine I shook was DIRECTLY on top of them, and must have seemed like a major earthquake. But watching this nest grow at the speed their making it is amazing - we humans are useless in comparison.

To try and steer this gently back to forum topic: still not sure what to do with the back fence area (which now leaves us fairly exposed to the back, whereas all the weeds before screened us from the alley) - maybe I'll put Mermaid or New Dawn back THERE and let it grow wild, and use a more mannerly climber for my sideyard...

Again, my sincerest thanks - you are a kind and generous online community!

Just a note, you can generally find Yellow Jacket nests easiest in the evening since there is more activity as all the wasps are returning to the nest for the evening. Know where their nests are so you don't accidentally stand between the wasp and its entrance and for most of the season they will leave you and your food alone. I treat them as if I am dealing with honey bees when they are out and about. Also don't squish one as this will cause them to sting you. I know we leave the nests alone in our area until August and then they must go because they become too agressive. Always use the sprays formulated for wasps and do it at least an hour after sunset, that way no surprises.

As far as honey bees go, if you stand between a bee and its opening to the nest they will sting you as well. And yes they too get agressive in the fall when the pollen available is drying up. It's always fun (NOT) playing in the supers at this time of year. ;-)

Hi Divamum,

If you do decide to exterminate this wasp problem of yours, there is a spray product, manufactured by RAID i believe, that you can easily and safely spray from 8 to 10' away during the early evening when the wasps are largely dormant. You attach a nozzle to the end of the can and it sprays a liquid and expanding foam over the target area. The foam will quickly envelop the entire nest, wasps and all and pretty much kills on contact. Do this, wait an hour, spray and cover the nest again and you will have eliminated this problem.

Normally I would say to leave them alone if you are not frequently in this area, but it is probably wise to get rid of them considering your personal sensitivity to stings and particularly if you have young children, since the wasps will become more aggressive with each passing week prior to the onset of winter as food becomes more scarce. The nest will also increase in size exponentially as will the corresponding number of wasps. Wasps can kill people if the person is sesnitive, or suffers enough stings. It happens every year.

I just removed a nest for a friend at work using the method I described above. The nest was in the corner of her shed and was literally the size size of two volleyballs connected together. The wasps were everywhere in her garden seeking pollen and nectar rich plants and she has two young children. One of who is very allergic to most things, necessiating the family to always have an EPI needle handy. The decision to exterminate the nest was pretty much a no-brainer, even for this organic gardener.

Good luck.

Glad you found the problem and were able to eliminate it.

Before our son was born, DW and I taught in the Ft Worth area. Our classrooms were portables and converted barracks buildings that always attracted hornets and yellow jackets. Somebody was always getting stung, and the nurse applied moistened baking soda in a compress to the sting to reduce pain and swelling.

Our son's allergies are very bad and he always has an asthma attack when stung by anything, including mosquitos. The doctor has us keep an epi-pen at home in case of anaphylactic shock. Thank goodness, we have never had to use it.

Best wishes,
Gary

Morden Man -

Is this product toxic to animals and people as well? It sounds like this is probably what we're going to have to do, but we also have a dog in the equation and I don't want to put him at risk.

Also, can you plant in the area where the chemicals have been (iow, will it kill plants?)

Thanks.

Hi Divamum,

It would be toxic to human's and animals if ingested directly, which hopefully neither you or your dog will be doing... :)

The foam eventually turns to liquid within 5-10 minutes and then within 20 minutes, is completely evaporated. There may be some liquid residue within the actual nest however for a longer period.

You will be able to plant in the area where you sprayed without issue and this spray is a very narrow stream and is very target specific. It does not carry through a large area. It works similiar to the foam fire extinguisher's. You spray it only at the specific target and then the liquid expands into foam and covers that target only. It does not mist or spray into the general air as such. You spray while standing 8 to 10' away in a jet stream through the tube provided with the can.

Once the nest and wasps are dead, you simply just remove the nest and dispose of it. Then there aren't any remnants of the spray or spray covered nest that would do any harm to animals.

If you are sensitive to stings, I forgot to mention earlier that as a precaution, it might be advisable to get your husband to do the spraying or perhaps a neighbour. It is unlikely you will get stung if you spray in the early/late evening, but just to be safe you may want to consider this...

Next question: any idea where to GET the Raid foaming stuff? I've checked our local hardware store, Home Depot, Lowes, the supermarket, Kmart and a few other places and nobody seems to stock it. They all say they have the long-distance spray, but I would definitely feel better about all this if we can encapsulate it as well as zap it (gaahh... I feel like a MURDERER. I hate this, but alas it really is the only option in our situation).

Is it usually this hard to find?

TIA.

Divamum,

It is easy to find here, so not sure why you can't seem to find it there. It is available at Home Depot, Home Hardware and most supermarket stores too.

Are you sure the long distance spray they carry isn't the foam spray? The instructions on the back would probably tell you if it is or not as it mentions the foam covering the nest etc.

Hope you manage to find it.

I had a really big hive in my front yard near some plantings. They had constructed the hive underground. I sprayed w/ wasp killer, I put the waterhose down the tunnel hoping to drown them, but what finally got them was a groundhog or raccoon. One morning I found that an animal had pulled the hive out, and eaten most of it.

That was finally the end of that, they never built there again.

Betty

That'as it..she needs a raccoon. LOL

Divamum,

My apologies. I may have sent you off in a wild goose chase. I just contacted my friend, since I left the remnants of the spray can with her and I asked her for the full name and who makes it.

It is not Raid as I originally posted. It is a company called Wilson and I think they are a Canadian company, so the products may, or may not be, available in the U.S.A.
However, I would think that other manufacturer's market something similiar.

Anyway, the product is called "Wilson Jet Foam Wasp and Hornet Killer".

Here is a link to the product with pciture and description.

http://www.wilson.nu-gro.com/products/product_e.php?prodID=85&category=27

My sincere apologies for steering you in the wrong direction originally and hopefully you can find this product or something similiar.

Good luck.

Morden Man - no problem. The thing is... there IS a Raid Foam product - I found it online, I just can't find it in stores :)

However, does seem like perhaps it's not distributed in the US yet. I think we're going to have to try the long-distance stuff since the nest is growing by about 10% each day.... My husband is going to suit up tonight - still relatively cool, and slightly rainy - we'll park the car on the other side of the (ugh blech chainlink - not my choice!) fence for a light source and he'll zap away. I still feel like a murderer, but there's no real choice on this occasioni...

Thanks again.

Oh yeah - anybody wanna send me a racoon on short term loan?! :)

I believe I have several spray bottles of the stuff. We are cleaning out my FIL's estate and he was a hoarder. I can send one to you if you need it really bad.

Gas works good. They almost die from the fumes before the gas gets to them.

Well, we did the deed last night. It was all rather anticlimactic in the end, but we did take precautions with my poor DH suited up to do the dirty work with every surface covered.

Again, my serious thanks to you all. I realise this was a bit off-topic but I had nobody else to ask, and I can't tell you how much I appreciate everybody's kindness in talking this newbie through. I know this is not actually that big a deal to American gardeners and homeowners, but I guess the learning curve for us in this country is going to be significant - we're slowly getting there with the kind help of folks like y'all. :)