My Mom was my first rose mentor and most of the things she did would probably be considered old wives tales now. But I have to admit I still do some of them. Like throwing a handful of bone meal into the bottom of the planting hole.

Lyn, I started out following advice from those who sprayed regularly, and also purchasee roses that needed that care. I wish I had had the experience of a good mentor, but mine have not helped me that much.

Since I had to find advice on my own, I appreciate the advice I have received on this forum. Also the advice from Paul Zimmerman, and from a newsletter on the Vintage rose site that challenged so many long held beliefs.

I think your rose growing style is very advanced for you to understand the term "let the rose be your teacher". I have so much to learn, and really appreciate all of the good advice that is on this Forum.

I do hate gall, and am sorry that you found it. I have wondered if the underground critters that we have could have damaged the roots. Even though we plant in cages, there are gophers, voles, moles that go up to the cage. Even a scratch on those roots could start the gall -- I think.

Sammy

My mentor is one of the best. I've learned a tremendous amount from him and others. I must say though that sometimes a begginer can teach an old dog new tricks. I listen to everyone carefully, though I never follow anything blindly.

I wasn't going to respond to this thread because of all of the nastiness of the past few weeks, but I just read a thread on HMF that changed my mind. There is a post there in the Q&A section about rose genetics that completely blew my mind. I read that section of HMF first thing every day and HMF has become a true mentor.

My first mentor was Gregg Lowery from Vintage Gardens. He taught me to keep my Felcos sharp and clean and to make all of my cuts straight across. He told me that trying to make an angled cut was simply not worth the effort since the wind and the wiles of the rose itself were going to make their own angles anyway.

And then, along came Kim. Now, I saw it written on this forum not so long ago that Kim was suspect because he's not just a "Joe Gardener", and that I am suspect because I'm a friend of Kims, but the truth is that I've never met Kim and we only became "friends" because he answered my questions and asked me others and we listen to each other.

So to sum it up: my mentors are and have been Gregg Lowery, Kim Rupert and HMF.

Here is a link that might be useful: Post about Red Fairy lineage scroll down a bit

Thank you for responding � I am learning things just as I read this thread because, I, too, have learned many things from this forum and other groups on the internet.

Sammy ** even though I have grown roses for almost two decades, I still consider myself a "beginner" and have much to learn, too. My growing style is changing because I am now gardening in a new climate. In my early rose life, I gardened in what many people call "Rose Heaven", now I garden in what I call "Rose H*ll"

I think we abandon long held beliefs because .. believe it or not � we are learning from the roses and have found that those practices simply are not working in our garden.

As for gall, there is some information in the GLOSSARY on HMF, but not enough. A bacteria can already be in the soil in some parts of the country and so be it. I have also read that many galls found on a plant are caused by insects, so finding a gall does not necessarily mean the death of a rose.

Your critters would never be able to even start working underground in my garden because they cannot burrow through soil that is like concrete.

Mendocino Rose *** We find mentors everywhere, if we listen. In fact, YOU can be called one of my mentors. When I visited your garden while searching for my home � and I was totally in awe as we walked around � you casually said one tiny bit of advice that has dictated how I approached creating this garden. One sentence ! You said, "Dig big holes." Perfect advice for this garden.

When I said following advice "blindly" and used the example of sterilizing pruners just because it made sense to me, I had never seen disease in my gardens that could be transferred from one rose to the next. Of course, the advice had to pass the it-makes-sense test.

Landperson *** It�s those people who have touched many roses for many years who can debunk or validate many of the gardening practices we were taught when we first started our rose lives. Gregg�s advice is valuable, but may not fit all climates, but his conclusion that the rose will do what it will do is right on the spot.

Yes, Kim has been one of several rose mentors for most of my rose life. The funny part in all of those years we have only met in person twice, but I have learned so much from him and he�s the one who is always saying, "Let the rose be your teacher." Others have said the same thing in books, on other forums and rose groups, but usually in paragraphs instead of one sentence. It really means that you just observe how the plant performs in your garden, in your climate and with your gardening style. If a rose isn�t doing well, I think it tells you that it�s unhappy in many different ways, and you only have to tweak something you are doing and that rose will take of and be a winner in your garden. Of course, some roses will never make it in your garden, but may shine elsewhere.

Hybrid teas LOVE my climate. Go figure.

Smiles,
Lyn

Like many here, my mom was my first mentor in many things. She was as pragmatic about everything as I was and continue being. She would learn what she could about something she wanted to grow, usually from her mother who grew everything, determine if she could easily create conditions they desired, then moved them if they didn't like what she could give them. She would push the envelope to determine what they would accept until she determined her boundaries, or theirs, then she would put them everywhere they would agree to and enjoy the dickens out of them. I did, and still do, follow her "Southern gardening advice" to share plants. It's completely logical. Everything is pruned by Nature, either by being eaten, burned or frozen, so sharing cuttings of something follows Nature's example and plants respond by growing bigger and better. The same goes for dividing plants and sharing the offspring. Most perennials require thinning. Sharing the thinned pieces not only provides room for yours to fill out again, but shares your pleasure with others who enjoy them and provides you a source for replacements should something happen to yours.

Her best advice was to keep it simple to keep it fun. That I blindly follow and never regret.

I joined the ARS, ignorantly thinking they could teach me how to grow good roses. I did the whole spray, over prune, over feed thing until I began to question the wisdom of constantly using chemicals whose labels warned me of probable eye damage, potential cancer, likely prostate disease and so on. Though not all blatantly stated on the labels, a bit of digging unearthed the known side effects of "long term, over exposure" to the active ingredients. Though careful, accidents can and do occur and I was (still am) too young to deal with the potential risks. Fortunately, I didn't do the chemical intervention routine that long, and I WAS always very careful with them. I hated what I considered "wasting" money on chemicals when it could be more enjoyably spent on new plants and books. I was and am fortunate that there are roses I like and enjoy which don't require the chemical intervention where I live and garden. I know many others aren't as fortunate in that way.

I blindly followed the instructions given about how to propagate the roses as a volunteer at The Huntington, figuring they knew what they were doing as they'd been at it far longer than I. Being the heretic I am, my mind began to wander, oops, I mean WONDER, what might happen if I tweaked this or that, and shortly, I took the success rate using their methods of less than half, to nearly a hundred percent each time I struck cuttings.

Same with growing roses. Fortunately, I am also a very lazy gardener. Not for those for whom I try to work my magic to create beautiful, sustainable vistas, but definitely in my own. A "past time", "hobby", should never be THAT much work, or it is, well, WORK. That's what I've always done this to get away FROM. So, after studying what roses wanted in Nature, without our intervention, I began permitting them to do their own things with as little intervention from me as possible, while I learned what THEY wanted where I grew them. Those which expressed gratitude for my benign neglect, received all the neglect they seemed to enjoy. Those who demanded more intensive attention and intervention, usually went to other peoples' gardens. A tried and true rule given by my mother and grandmother is, "They ALWAYS look better in someone else's yard". Ain't that the danged truth?! I can't tell you how many times I've admired a rose or other plant in a friend's garden, only to be told, "YOU gave it to me!" I did? Hmmmmm... And, life is SO much more fun without the "cocaine addicted, French mistresses" populating my garden. (no offense to anyone of French descent, honest!)

Ralph Moore was probably one of the most influential "mentors" I could ever be blessed with. Every aspect of gardening and many about life in general, was affected and influenced by his folksy, home spun, usually highly scientifically based and always observationally supported comments. On one our first visits, I commented on his effective use of weeds for ground cover, all over the ground, paths, flourishing in the pots... His response? "If you don't plant something, God will!". Well, yes...

I commented on how his plants received no real "care". He responded, "We test by stress. If I can't kill it, you shouldn't be able to". OK. Many of his roses they released, if grown in climates similar to what he created them in are quite bullet proof. That was part of his selection process. Anyone can create a beautiful flower. He admonished to create a good plant first, as hanging a pretty flower on it later was rather easy. Quite a twist on the traditional process. He advised to watch Nature, see what she does and how it works, then do the same. He taught to "think like the rose". Consider how what it receives stimulates it to do what it does and why, then do to and for it what it needs to encourage it to respond the way you want it to. How much easier could it become than that?

He actually stated to let the rose be your guide, exactly what my Southern gardening ancestors did and taught, but never really said. When I inquired what he thought about using dangerous, expensive chemicals to manipulate chromosomes in breeding, he responded that you COULD, but why would you want to when, "the rose will find the way". When asked about what his thoughts on special rose foods and extravagant feeding regimen, he responded, as he did frequently, "Why? Roses can't read!". So, if the fertilizer fits the desires guaranteed analysis for the desired results, it honestly doesn't matter what the label says it's good for, it should please the roses and like your dog, they can't tell the difference if it's something that agrees with them.

Fortunately, both my original mentors and Mr. Moore advocated observation. Watch it and see. The rose, and pretty much any other kind of plant, is going to show you want it wants. I advocate that in pruning. Unless you're trying to force the plant to your will, permitting it to show you where it wants to begin growing and flowering before cutting it, then letting it do it will result in more flowers, faster. If your desire is for landscape color, this will give it to you by the wagon load. You can always clean up any issues when you do your usual pruning. Special needs such as wind or snow require their own attention, but those are things I've been lucky not to have had to consider.

I learn as much from other forum participants and those whose gardens I have visited and enjoyed as I may have "taught" others. There are so many right ways to garden and grow roses. No one can try them all. No one can try them everywhere and with all roses and all of us don't have the same gardening styles or requirements from our gardens. Seeing through your eyes teaches me so much. Each one who observes, considers and comes up with new discoveries and knowledge mentors ME.

I love the interaction with others who share my rose "obsession", the personalities of each one, their individual garden visions and desires. It is the dynamic knowledge gleaned from the interaction that floats my boat, stimulates my brain and pushes me to push the envelope further. Mr. Moore admonished, "Don't stir the pot, bring something new to the table" about rose breeding and growing, meaning observe, study, learn from what is going on around you. What you read as gardening and rose growing "law" or "rules" is so very often blindly repeated legend plagiarized from other books. Look at what the plants do by themselves and what they do in response to what is provided them and what is done TO them and learn from it.

Listen and read. Test it for logic and potential sound reasoning and consider why it may work where it is reported to work. If it resonates well with your style, desires and conditions, test it, try it and see if it works for you. If not, why didn't it? Tweak it, massage it and test your modifications to see if altering it allows it to make your situation better, then share it. Elevating one, elevates everyone. Your sharing your observations and knowledge stimulates mine, teaching me, which in turn stimulates and teaches someone else.

Fortunately, both ancestral mentors and Mr. Moore also stressed that knowledge unshared, is worthless. If you know something which will benefit someone else, keeping it to yourself is a sin, shameful. Not that it should ever be forced, but it definitely should be freely given if asked. Being a good steward of the knowledge is its own reward. Fame, praise, reputation, attention are OK, but knowing someone else is better off, their problems or distresses are improved simply because you offered what others shared with you and what you discovered or observed, IS what matters. That is one I have and continue to "blindly follow". Kim

...both ancestral mentors and Mr. Moore also stressed that knowledge unshared, is worthless.

A lovely thought!

As I read these reponses, it came to me that these rose forums have, in a sense, replaced those ancestral mentors and gardeners are still hungry for the information that used to be passed down from one generation to another.

Of couse, in some families, or even communities like mine, gardenng such an important part of their lives that process continues. For example, I have a friend who's two year old daughter is alredy helping to weed in the garden. Her new trick is to grab a plant and scream, "PULL, PULL" and A has to take a quick look to be certain she is pulling a weed instead of something A wants to keep. That child is going to grow up not only with a green thumb, she is going to be green all the way up to her elbows.

I think it is in forums likes these that we find information passed along in a very useful way that serves us all.

Although, I only met with Mr. Moore a few times, I do consider him to be one of my mentors, both from talking with him, but also learning from a few others who were also mentored by him as they passed along what they learned from him.

Jeri Jennings, Anita, Mel Hulse, who is no longer with us, and others who participate on this forum have earned the title of "mentor" to me because of all that they shared.

BLESS all of you who have contributed to my rose life.

Smiles,
Lyn

My earliest experience of internet groups was the Usenet forum rec. gardens.roses and most of the roses I grow I owe to that forum and participants such as Brent C. Dickerson, Sam McGredy, Alice Flores, Jim in MN, Kay and Steve Cangemi and too many others to mention. The greatest find was a fellow Swede, Allan, now one of my dearest friends. We meet at least once a year. He taught me about growing roses in our climate before the appearance in later years of countless rose books and rose forums in Sweden. The American advice was not always appropriate in my conditions. But one of my later roses is Swan Lake, recommended by Sam McGredy himself. I hadn't thought about this climber since then but when I happened on it at a plant fair in Estonia two years ago, I had to have it. I also keep looking for Etna because the Cangemis recommended it all these years ago. I confess to a sentimental streak.

Mariannese ..

Oh, I remember the days of rec.gardens.roses and the heady experience of exchanging rose information and rose talk with people from around the world until the trolls took over the site with their ugly mindset and we all abandoned the site seeking another way to share our love for roses. I learned so much about roses while the site was still rich and viable.

I had forgotten about Swan Lake and will seek it out, too.

Could you please contact me privately at RoseBlush1@aol.com about those Swedish rose books you mentioned in your post ? I am interested in them because of another rose project I have been working on for the last several years.

Smiles,
Lyn

Ah! Rec.gardenroses! THOSE were the days! Evenings spent reading Sam McGredy responding to Mel Hulse's waxing poetically about the sophisticated, ephemeral beauty of Grey Pearl with McGredy's comments that only J&P made a dime off the rose and of how his Uncle Walter Bentley (the rose Uncle Walter) called it "the rose of lavatorial coloring!" LOL! In depth conversations about what roses do and why they do it mixed with observations of how they look where and how to make them better. Much personal and professional insight flying over the Net to absorb, digest and cogitate on.

Breeders, historians, movers and shakers of the Rose World all at the same time, mixing it up on one thread after another. Then, TROLLS, with their obscenities, personal attacks, even death threats and ugliness. Yes, unfortunately, I remember them all too well, too. Before their over running that venue, I learned so much about roses and the wonderful people behind them.

On occasion, these forums nearly approximate the depth of Rec.gardenroses. Those times are wonderful! Kim

I was too late to the rose party to know the blessing and bane of the earlier rose forums, but at least I got to know Mel Hulse. He mentored me not only in learning about roses, but in how to manage a public garden. The San Jose Heritage Rose Garden is ten times bigger than the Sacramento Historic Rose Garden, but I've adapted many of the things that we do from what that generous, enthusiastic man shared with us.

My primary rose mentor is Barbara Oliva, curator of the Historic Rose Garden. I started volunteering with her determined to suck out all of her knowledge in six month's time. After nearly nine years, I'm still there, still learning. I know more than she does about some roses, but she still floors me with insights and info and historical tidbits.

I read that gardening is one of the few fields in our American culture, which so overvalues the new and the young, in which elders are respected deeply because the experience of being in the garden for many years is more meaningful than book learning or new discoveries. I know that I learn from the old folks who call the Master Gardeners hotline, often just because they'd like to talk to somebody. Bless them, and all of the people who are old in bodies but still young gardeners, as Thomas Jefferson said.

Certainly, many on this and other rose forums have been wonderful mentors to me and I value their input, even if they are younger than I am! I've made an effort to meet as many of my electronic rose gardening friends as possible, and it's been wonderful. Jeri, Pamela, Berndoodle, Kim, Jill Perry and Gregg Lowery are among those who have taught me so much, and been such good companions, too.

I learned from this forum that much of my Sacramento rose experience doesn't mean much in other locations, a wonderful lesson. Kim preaches "location location location" and he is so right. He and Barbara both are proponents of letting the rose teach you what to do - I hated that at the beginning, because I thought I'd never know the roses well enough to understand whatever it was that the rose was saying. I'm getting there, after literally thousands of hours in rose gardens, mostly the cemetery one.

I want to meet Lyn someday. Thanks for including me in your list of mentors, Lyn. I try to share what I know and love with others, especially in the cemetery garden where I lead tours and work with other volunteers. It is so much fun to pass things along.
Anita

Thank you Anita! What a blessing to be able to play in the roses with Barbara in such a magnificent garden! You have created such a marvelous space there, simply wonderful! For anyone who is close enough to visit, PLEASE, get to the Sacramento Historic City Cemetery.

Nothing you can read will prepare you for what you will see and learn. "Found" roses and historic varieties combine to produce a collection of roses which survive on their own with little to no intervention from "us". Roses grow there much larger than expected and all are "larger than life".

Hopefully, you can plan to visit during one of their Celebrations and sales. Definitely worth the effort to see it at the height of bloom and meet Barbara, Anita and all of the great volunteers who make this one of the outstanding rose gardens in the country. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Sacramento Historic City Cemetery

My first Old Rose mentor was my across- the -street neighbor; Luanne W.
sweet blessed Luanne of dry wit, who offered me advice about the hundreds of modern Hybrid Tea and Florabunda roses in the garden of the rental property where I lived because nearly all of the roses lacked any scent at all. Her answer was "Why don't you try growing Old Garden Roses?
I never even liked roses much, preferring Oriental lilies for their intense fragrance, but once I became acquainted with a few dozen Old Garden Tea roses that became my favorite class of rose, with Alba as second.
I volunteered at Dirt Day for several years at vintage gardens and met the incomparable Gregg Lowery, whose knowledge of, and dedication for the preservation of Old Roses impressed me so greatly that I became a volunteer at a public garden where hundreds of Old Roses had been neglected over a decade due to budget and staffing cuts.
I met Mel Hulse several times and asked him for advise, and Miriam Wilkins, who invited me to her home, after she passed , a few months later her family donated Miriams' roses to local public rose gardens...I remember running through her property in great glee choosing R. moyessi and several other such large roses appropriate for acreage space..
such great people, those two, and such a vast knowledge of Old Roses between them.

Many thanks to my grandmother Hazel and my mother Silva who inspired me to love gardening. With those first names it may have been destiny that they would love gardening so much.

and thank you, Kim Rupert, for sharing your knowledge here and in the rose propagation forum,
-and to Malcolm Manners,
- and Cass and Jeri.

I'd like to meet you all some day, and see your gardens, but for now I am grateful for this forum which allows us to meet in the Virtual Rose World.

Luxrosa

Thank you Luxrosa. You've truly been blessed to have met Mel, Miriam, Gregg and your wonderful early rose mentors. Mel and Miriam were one of a kind. I remember an afternoon sitting in Miriam's living room talking roses with her. Her husband sat providing details she overlooked and finally announced, "Miriam is going to write a book! I have the title, 'Cluttered Garden, Cluttered House, Cluttered Mind!" Mel, what a great gentleman! Honorable, loyal friend, dedicated to the end and one of the funniest people I've known. A great steward of everything he held. Both are seriously missed.

Amen! Very grateful for this virtual rose world in which we can play any time of the day or night; in which there are no "bad weather conditions", and for the lovely people who play here. Thank you! Kim