"..... I agree that the H. Gigs and Banksiae should be good bets for us. I may have mentioned that we took cuttings from a Belle Portugaise that we found up near Francesco Franceschi's old home on the Riviera in Santa Barbara. The cuttings rooted easily and it looks like one is going to scramble up a tree for us. The plant is vigorous and the leaves are truly "gigantic"! I wish there were more Hybrid Banksiae available (hint, hint to hybridizers) too as they truly do love Santa Barbara. We adore the yellow Lady Banks but it blooms just once a year in March and offers no scent... A question: which H. gigs do you all recommend?" You have the number one 'Gig', Belle Portuguese. So my top recommendation would go to Fortune's Double Yellow. Supposedly, it can reach 39 feet. Blooms only once, but the show is beyond description. I love everything about that plant. The foliage looks like something out of a Chinese painting on silk. And I'm sure the Chinese DID paint it. That's where Fortune discovered it. I will add that we used to cut branches from ours, and the blooms would continue opening for a week or so: much like forced fruit tree blossoms. Ours was planted in a tiny, horrid scrap of a spot, at the southwest corner of an office building, surrounded by black asphalt parking lots, and adjacent a bank of heat-belching AC condenser units...in Mississippi, which is hot, even in the shade. That rose got no shade. Windswept - hot.... probably not too different from a summer in the Gobi Desert. The spot of soil was maybe four feet wide and six feet long, with retainer walls on two sides, condensers on one side, and the building on the other. Two feet of soil, and then fresh construction debris below. (wood scraps, red clay, red sand, concrete slurry, broken cinderblocks, fake stucco scraps...First rose I ever planted. Beginner's luck. What did I know?). Anyway, ours leaned itself through a five-foot decorative fence, and grew to maybe seven feet tall by ten wide by eight deep. Basically evergreen. Astonishingly beautiful in its one long burst of bloom. In better conditions, with something tall to climb, and with less restricted roots, I'm sure that twenty feet could be a reasonable expectation. Australia is blessed with a number of Gigantea hybrids dating from the 1920s. Alister Clark is the hero who created them. The most famous is Lorraine Lee. I'm not sure how many have made it to the USA. They may be undergoing quarantine right now. The Rose World seems to be imperiled, and I hope that Giganteas don't get lost in the panic. Anyway, Australia has even more horrid summers than does the American South, and Alister Clark's Giganteas seem to have weathered such extreme conditions very well. BTW, speaking of Rose Heroes: have you read about what's being done with Rosa Bracteata? (or was being done, until the implosion of the market). We're headed back to Mississippi (At least I had a few years of growing OGRs in a quasi-European climate...dream come true...), and I can't wait to grow what few Hybrid Bracteatas have made it into commerce. Mermaid, the most famous old Bracteata hybrid, is untroubled by Gulf South heat and humidity, and so I have high hopes for the new introductions. And time is running out to order from Vintage Gardens, who have (already rooted), 'Montecito'. Their description: "A massive tree climber, sensitive to cold even in our normally mild climate, Montecito was bred in Italy, a cross between Rosa gigantea and Rosa brunonii. Large, fragrant, single white blooms." In Santa Barbara, I think the cold may be less an issue for you. Sounds exactly right, considering your desire for something truly rampant. I notice that Vintage will custom-root the original species Gigantea... something I wish I'd known a decade back.

Come to think about it, my freind with the 2 Royal Sunsets rented his house while he was in Southern California last winter. The winter before that a freind of his pruned his roses. It is possible that in the last 2 winters, well meaning but misguided persons pruned the two Royal Sunsets back. Thanks,Petaloid you may have solved our mystery. I almost feel like putting a yellow CAUTION ribbon around the bushes saying "DO NOT PRUNE" -About pruning, because we live in a frost free area, I just trim my rosebushes to shape them in winter, taking off an inch or two per foot, of healthy growth, after a rosebush has reached a mature height. Removing more just delays the first flush in April, for China and Teas. For thicker caned classes, such as H.T./ H.P.s, I'd prune off a third, at most.

If you want something that "pops", then you've got the right rose with Westerland, lol. "BOOM!" is more like it. I bought it thinking it was more apricot toned. Nope. It's ORANGE, at least here in TN, and orange doesn't live long in my garden (Yes, I'm a rabid Vol fan, but I don't drive an orange car, either!). I ripped it out and replaced it with its sport, Autumn Sunset, which IS apricot/gold. I love this rose. However, the canes are a bit stiff on both these roses. I grown Autumn Sunset as a large shrub, and it loves it. It's about 5'x5', and would get larger if I let it. I summer prune it to keep it in bounds. I'm not sure it would climb, but it WOULD make a nice pillar. Fairly disease free for me, but does get a touch of BS. It is in afternoon shade, and I suspect the flowers would fade in full, all day sun. It's completely cane hardy for me. Never had even a touch of dieback except on late season new fall growth. John

I've moved way too many roses, climbers included , in my garden; seems like every autumn we have a bout of "musical roses" game. So, though I don't consider myself an expert, I take the liberty to respond. One reason I hate moving climbers is that experience has taught me that it is much, much better to prune them back pretty drastically if you move them (reducing the canes to about 1-2 feet tall), so then you have to wait a couple seasons for them to grow back to what they were.In one or two cases I've managed to move them leaving some long canes, but cutting them way back is much more fool proof.To me it seems that, no matter how big a root ball you manage to conserve when digging the plant up,the roots inevitably undergo a shock on being moved,and they find it very hard to send out the vital energy,lymph or whatever, all the way up long canes.Instead, if they only have short canes to "maintain", they can concentrate themselves on re-establishing, settling down in the new spot, and re-growing themselves in the first year after the move. Then in the following year, the plant can start to grow again vigorously.Now, that's just my two cents.Keep in mind that my garden is far from my house, in a wild place, with no running water,so I can't pamper my plants really.So I'm certainly NOT saying that I think that Seil is "wrong"!!! I'm just saying that I have found that cutting them back rather severely, IN MY SITUATION, has been more reliable. regards to all, bart