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Desperate for a climber that will climb for us...

lbuzzell
11 years ago

We've put in many climbers since 2007 but few seem willing to actually climb within a reasonable period of time in our garden. I always wait at least 3 years to see what they'll do, but so far only Phyllis Bide has covered much space. Some have sent up a single cane that looks like it wants to be a climber at some point: Mme Berard's cane is 4+feet; "Pleasant Hill Cemetery" has one cane 6 feet. Hybrid Musk Daybreak is doing sort of nicely - many canes and about 4 3/4 feet high on an arch; Climbing Lady Hillingdon is now about 3 3/4 feet high with nice blooms (could it be the bush form?). Reve d'Or, shockingly, is a puny bush in front of our chimney. A cutting of it is doing better next to one of our arches and I have hopes for it. William Allen Richardson is about 2 1/2 feet high. The Claire Jacquier (a refugee from Hearst Castle rose re-do) we have has one 5' cane and - halleluyah - another new cane coming up, but no flowers yet. I could go on...
What's curious is that all these roses are perfectly healthy.
Does anyone have ideas for a super-vigorous, floriferous climber that could do the job of actually covering its arch here in Zone 24 California?

Comments (20)

  • jacqueline9CA
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Presuming that the arch is in full or good sun, there are lots. A few that I have that are climbing & blooming very well are:

    Cl Iceberg
    Sombreuil
    Madame Caroline Testout
    Golden Showers
    Summer Wine
    Cl Crimson Glory

    Madame Alfred Carriere (blooms all of the time, but is a tree or out-building eater - probably not good for an arch, but fantastic rose).

    Climbing once bloomers which I have & love: Veilchenblau, banksia lutea, Belle Portugaise, Cl American Beauty

    These all need 2-4 years to really get going.

    Jackie

  • lbuzzell
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, the arches are in full sun. We have Sombreuil and it's about 4' tall so far. Lovely smelly blooms though! Mme Caroline Testout hated our soil and is now in a pot and did much better until it got blackspot all over it (and we don't get much blackspot here). We had a Golden Showers and it got very sick and died. We bought 2 Climbing Iceberg and they turned out to be mislabeled - or they just refused to climb. Sounds like we're jinxed, doesn't it?!
    We haven't tried Mme Alfred Carriere yet as we've seen her turn into a monster locally - but maybe she has the guts to take on our yard?

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  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One thing I've learned in my hot and dry garden is that roses will sulk if they don't have enough water and lots of mulch. Some of the roses that weren't doing well were dry as a bone underneath the mulch, and some that had enough water but didn't have enough mulch really perked up when I gave them lots more so that they remained moist. Alfalfa meal, once the other two criteria are satisfied, will also really help the roses to grow and throw out new canes. Roses also don't like competition from grass so I'd be sure to have a large area around the climbers that is free of grass. Good soil with plenty of compost mixed in is also pretty essential for large roses to do their best. Another mistake I made was to plant Reve d'Or against a hot house wall. It started out very well but declined more and more until I had to take it out.

    Ingrid

  • cemeteryrose
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi, Linda!
    Our so-called Climbing Lady Hillingdon in the cemetery did not climb until Anne Belovich mentioned to me that some roses need to be touching a support in order to put out climbing canes. We tied a few of its taller canes to the archway that we wanted it to climb, and voila! We just tied up some eight foot canes. We have had similar results with several other roses that, once they got a support under them, began to stretch.

    It's taken the Rev d'Or on the other side of the wide archway about five years to climb over it, so it is not a giant climber by any means for us.

    Other roses take a while to climb. Jeri assured us that Setzer Noisette was a true climber, but it was a true shrub until this year, about four years after we first planted it. I tried the "tie a few canes to the support technique" but it sent out some long canes from further down in the plant this winter. I plan to trim out some of the shrubby stuff and have happily tied up the long canes.

    I don't know that Daybreak will ever get very big. Pleasant Hil Cemetery is a puny rose, finally beginning to put on some bigger growth after five years or more in the ground. On the other hand, I'd be very afraid of Mme Alfred Carriere - mine is simply a monster although one with fabulous flowers.

    Some roses are true climbers and should produce long canes no matter what - the ramblers, for example, and roses like Phyllis Bide.

    There are a couple of versions of Lamarque on the market, and that should definitely climb for you and be very happy on an archway, although it could get too big. It loves warm weather, and was one of the roses that Gertrude Jekyll recommended for the Riviera. Hetty has one on her garden shed. Here's a photo.

    Kim is right about the heat, particularly reflected heat. We just gave up on trying to grow Renae on the south side of the granite mausoleum. It simply fried. Lady Waterlow has done better but is not great.

    Anita

  • roseseek
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In many cases, Ann's advice about tying the canes to support is what's needed. If you allow the canes to be free-standing, they thicken to provide themselves support, instead of elongating to "climb". Sometimes, all it takes is to provide it support and the elongation occurs pretty quickly. Other times, the blamed thing just starts exploding out in every direction. Of course, none of that occurs without "feet" first. Kim

  • rosefolly
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Reve d'Or is not very vigorous here, but watch out for Sombreuil. I found it took about 5 years to really take off, not the traditional 3, but it will eventually get quite big. I'm close enough to you that our conditions ought to be similar.

    Cecile Brunner ought to get huge for you. Rambling Rector, too. Both are once bloomers. And all the forms of Lady Banks, white or yellow, single or double, should get very, very large. Absolutely Chevy Chase; you'll spend a lot of time trying to control it. Of course, all of these are once-bloomers.

    Madame Alfred Carriere grew very large here, and repeated, but got a lot of mildew. Perhaps your conditions are just different enough from mine that this will not be an issue for you. It is a problem for a number of teas here, though fortunately not for all of them.

    Some of the older climbing hybrid teas ought to get gorgeous and large. One that repeated well for me was Cl Shot Silk. It does get rust some years. I've been trying and trying to get Cl Crimson Glory to grow big. I've seen Jackie's and it is indeed glorious. Mine, well, it is doing a little better than it did previously but nothing like hers, or indeed, like Jon's in Wessex, a simply sublime climber. I have just a bit of Cl Crimson Glory envy.

    You might try Bardou Job. It took about four years here but it is finally throwing out some really big canes. I'm really liking this climber and it does have reasonable repeat. While there are many exceptions, really, really big roses tend to repeat less, if at all. They are busy putting energy into growth rather than bloom. It makes sense. Resources are not infinite. Darn.

    Rosefolly

  • jerijen
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    All of the above. We are only a few milles from you. 4-5 years is more common for me -- unless you're dealing with something budded, on Huey. And, plenty of water during those early years.

    Also -- we never got any rose to grow next our chimney -- and those against walls do best within latticework between them and the wall.

    Setzer stubbornly looked bushy for the first few years. But Joyce Demiits said it was a pillar climber, so we kept the faith -- and Joyce was right.

    Have you tried Secret Garden Musk Climber? It is our most-rampant climber.

    Jeri

  • lbuzzell
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Many thanks ingrid, kim, anita, jeri and rosefolly - all good advice. We water as much as we can, but probably the idea of keeping all rose roots moist all the time isn't going to happen in our garden (even though we mulch heavily), as we have over 100 fruit trees to baby and we want that fruit! We probably should have put in some of our climbers on Dr. Huey but at the time we were just getting bands from Vintage. Even our 10+ year old Cl. Cecile B isn't a huge rose for us (probably a good thing). It half covers a hot south wall and gives a nice spring bloom so we don't complain - no watering and no pruning required!
    We'll definitely try some alfalfa meal this summer and now that we have a graywater system, will try to get more water to some of the thirstiest climbers. We have Lamarque, btw, and it's about 5' tall but in part shade as it's climbing a sycamore tree. I still have hopes!
    Now if it would only rain...

  • jerijen
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think greywater should help you.

    Jeri

  • plan9fromposhmadison
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Possibly MERMAID is the answer? Or maybe Fortune's Double Yellow?

    And perusing Vintage Gardens' offerings, I noticed a couple of Hybrid Giganteas I'd never heard of. Order soon, or forever...

    In your climate, I think that only Giganteas, Banksiaes, and Bracteatas are going to climb as aggressively as you're hoping.

    (Thanks, Jeri, for mentioning Secret Garden Musk. We're headed back south, and I just added it to our list for the new property)

  • roseblush1
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Linda..........

    I am not certain how much your climate varies from Jeri's, but have you thought of 'Sally Holmes' ?

    Here's a link Jeri posted of the rose in her garden.

    Smiles,
    Lyn

    Here is a link that might be useful: Jeri's photo of Sally Holmes on HMF

  • lbuzzell
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lyn, thanks for the great suggestion. I do have Sally Holmes and it's growing vigorously here with minimal care, throwing out long canes. But stupidly I planted it where it needed to be a shrub. I will definitely try it as a climber, which I can see it longs to be!

  • lbuzzell
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    plan9, thanks for the good suggestions. I agree that the H. Gigs and Banksiae should be good bets for us. I may have mentioned that we took cuttings from a Belle Portugaise that we found up near Francesco Franceschi's old home on the Riviera in Santa Barbara. The cuttings rooted easily and it looks like one is going to scramble up a tree for us. The plant is vigorous and the leaves are truly "gigantic"! I wish there were more Hybrid Banksiae available (hint, hint to hybridizers) too as they truly do love Santa Barbara. We adore the yellow Lady Banks but it blooms just once a year in March and offers no scent...
    A question: which H. gigs do you all recommend?

  • jerijen
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Even in CA, I don't think of Sally Holmes as much of a climber, per se.

    In my garden, it really is a gigantic shrub. Tree-sized.

    It was grown from a band plant, from Heirloom, obtained a year or so before it went into commerce in the U.S. THEY say that they obtained their parent plant as a cutting from the original seedling (so it had not been budded).

    We liked it so much that we bought another, when it was released here -- but that budded plant never grew over 4-ft., and it genuinely was infected with RMV -- and it left here long ago.

    I REALLY want that space for something else, but I am loathe to remove it without passing it along to someone else, so there, for the present, it sits.

    Want it? Got a strong shovel? :-)

    Jeri

  • jacqueline9CA
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Re Belle Portugaise - I think that is truly the rose I grow which has the loveliest blooms - from the huge tapered buds to the elegant open flowers.

    Just so you know, mine grew from a cutting and got 15 feet high and 4 years old before it started to bloom, so be patient - it has bloomed fine every year since then.

    Jackie

  • lbuzzell
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the heads up on Belle Portugaise, Jackie. I'll try to be patient! Right now I'll be glad just to nice big leaves to cover an unsightly dead tree and fence...

  • plan9fromposhmadison
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "..... I agree that the H. Gigs and Banksiae should be good bets for us. I may have mentioned that we took cuttings from a Belle Portugaise that we found up near Francesco Franceschi's old home on the Riviera in Santa Barbara. The cuttings rooted easily and it looks like one is going to scramble up a tree for us. The plant is vigorous and the leaves are truly "gigantic"! I wish there were more Hybrid Banksiae available (hint, hint to hybridizers) too as they truly do love Santa Barbara. We adore the yellow Lady Banks but it blooms just once a year in March and offers no scent...
    A question: which H. gigs do you all recommend?"

    You have the number one 'Gig', Belle Portuguese. So my top recommendation would go to Fortune's Double Yellow. Supposedly, it can reach 39 feet. Blooms only once, but the show is beyond description. I love everything about that plant. The foliage looks like something out of a Chinese painting on silk. And I'm sure the Chinese DID paint it. That's where Fortune discovered it. I will add that we used to cut branches from ours, and the blooms would continue opening for a week or so: much like forced fruit tree blossoms.

    Ours was planted in a tiny, horrid scrap of a spot, at the southwest corner of an office building, surrounded by black asphalt parking lots, and adjacent a bank of heat-belching AC condenser units...in Mississippi, which is hot, even in the shade. That rose got no shade. Windswept - hot.... probably not too different from a summer in the Gobi Desert. The spot of soil was maybe four feet wide and six feet long, with retainer walls on two sides, condensers on one side, and the building on the other. Two feet of soil, and then fresh construction debris below. (wood scraps, red clay, red sand, concrete slurry, broken cinderblocks, fake stucco scraps...First rose I ever planted. Beginner's luck. What did I know?). Anyway, ours leaned itself through a five-foot decorative fence, and grew to maybe seven feet tall by ten wide by eight deep. Basically evergreen. Astonishingly beautiful in its one long burst of bloom. In better conditions, with something tall to climb, and with less restricted roots, I'm sure that twenty feet could be a reasonable expectation.

    Australia is blessed with a number of Gigantea hybrids dating from the 1920s. Alister Clark is the hero who created them. The most famous is Lorraine Lee. I'm not sure how many have made it to the USA. They may be undergoing quarantine right now. The Rose World seems to be imperiled, and I hope that Giganteas don't get lost in the panic. Anyway, Australia has even more horrid summers than does the American South, and Alister Clark's Giganteas seem to have weathered such extreme conditions very well.

    BTW, speaking of Rose Heroes: have you read about what's being done with Rosa Bracteata? (or was being done, until the implosion of the market). We're headed back to Mississippi (At least I had a few years of growing OGRs in a quasi-European climate...dream come true...), and I can't wait to grow what few Hybrid Bracteatas have made it into commerce. Mermaid, the most famous old Bracteata hybrid, is untroubled by Gulf South heat and humidity, and so I have high hopes for the new introductions.

    And time is running out to order from Vintage Gardens, who have (already rooted), 'Montecito'. Their description: "A massive tree climber, sensitive to cold even in our normally mild climate, Montecito was bred in Italy, a cross between Rosa gigantea and Rosa brunonii. Large, fragrant, single white blooms." In Santa Barbara, I think the cold may be less an issue for you. Sounds exactly right, considering your desire for something truly rampant.

    I notice that Vintage will custom-root the original species Gigantea... something I wish I'd known a decade back.

  • roseseek
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Franceschi bred Montecito in Santa Barbara, CA. He attempted to create a rose oil production industry in Santa Barbara, figuring he could distill the oils in that marvelous climate. What he didn't consider was how arid the climate was, which made his distillation attempts fruitless. Montecito is a glorious rose! I raised Nessie from it as the seed parent. Twilight Mist is another Montecito seedling of very unusual color. Kim

    Here is a link that might be useful: Nessie

  • lbuzzell
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks, plan9 and Kim - good thoughts. I agree that we should try to get Montecito while the getting is good. And I'll have to explore Nessie and Twilight Mist as well!

    And aahhh, 'Fortune's Double Yellow.' We fell in love with that when we saw it in full spring bloom at the historic Cooper-Molera House in Monterey one year. It was HUGE. And thorny in that China thicket way. But oh the blooms - indescribable. I wonder if I'm brave enough to put one in...