Please-opinion needed asap re plane trees vs. crimson king maple

17 years ago

First I want to apologize for the "asap", it sounds so demanding, but I have bare root trees that aren't going to wait very long.

Second, I know from reading this forum that most of you hate crimson king maples. But they are already planted.

I have a very long driveway and live in the country. When I moved in 5 years ago, I didn't know much about trees, but decided I would like an allee of trees along the driveway. I went to several nurseries to see what they recommended. A local nursery convinced me to get crimson king maple. (I did not know gardenweb existed back then or I'm sure you all would have given me better advice.) I planted 15 on each side, 25 feet apart. I don't hate them, I think they are handsome trees.

However, the first year we spent about $2500 on these trees. (30 x $75 + tax) The first year 11 died! (more $$) I replaced them. THe second year 8 died. I replaced them. The third year only 4 died. I replaced them. Last year only 1 died. Seems like I've replaced them all and it's been very expensive both in time and labor. ( I have to water all summer long and that's a job.)

Now I know how to plant trees. I planted 100 mixed evergreens. All lived. I planted 15 white birch and 15 river birch. All lived. I planted 15 hawthorne, all lived. I planted probably 20 or more specimen trees, they all lived. I've also planted thousands of seedlings with very high success rate. I have gardened for years and read everything I can and am a garden web addict. I do know how to plant trees, so I don't know what is going on. Of course the trees that died were the ones that I spent the most time and money on, and the ones that are most visible to the whole world.

This winter I decided to replace them with London plane tree. (we went to Pittsburgh and I just fell in love with their bark. The city is loaded with them and they were all so beautiful.) I like the idea of that fascinating bark providing winter interest, and winters are very long here.

I ordered the plane trees, they have arrived bare root, and I intended to plant them between all the maples, wait a year to see how they do, and then remove the maples, hopefully replanting them somewhere. Since plane tree grow so fast,( and I'm tired of shelling out the big bucks) I got bareroot very inexpensively.

The maples, sensing their imminent removal from favored location, did well this year and only one died. Most are very well established and starting to get some size on them.

After that long winded history, my question is:

DO I REPLACE THEM?

DH is not thrilled with spending all that money and seeing it go poof. Mostly he doesn't like the idea of removing now healthy and established trees. After all the work I've done and seeing them look good this year, I'm having second thoughts. All the garden work is my dept. and he's agreed to let me decide.(since I do all the work) (Yes, he's one in a million and I'm know how lucky I am.)

I can always just put these plane trees somewhere in the field, but I do not have any nice place to put them. Their grandeur will be lost.

I read this forum a lot, even if I don't post often, and I respect the knowedgeable people who contribute here.

What is your opinion?

Thanks for reading

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Comments (8)

spruceman
17 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
OK, ASAP plant the plane trees--between the maples, which you said are 25 feet apart. You will have nice alternating trees for several years--just let them both grow and you can decide what to keep and what to remove later. Use your imagination--maybe you could keep some of each. Half of the allee with one kind of tree half with the other. You will have a lot of time to consider the possibilities. But get the plane trees in the ground ASAP.

Personally I love the plane trees--they are fast growers, they are very tough and hardy, they naturally develop a good strong branching structure, they live a very, very long time--real "legacy trees." But they do grow much larger than the crimson King maples, so part of what you have to decide is how large you want the trees in your allee to be. These trees are very different in just about all characteristics.

Not all London plane cultivars are the same--I don't know much about them, but I think the most commonly sold is the "bloodgood," and I think it is a very fine cultivar of this hybrid.

--Spruce
WendyB 5A/MA
17 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I took a class last year on ornamental woody plants and one of the instructor's comments on Platanus is it is subject to anthracnose and galls. Platanus x acerifolia is less susceptible than P. occidentalis. Common name Buttonwood. Notes on Platanus occidentalis says "mottled bark, maple-like leaves". Does that mean x acerfolia is not mottled bark? beats me.

Do you know which kind you got?

In either case, planting them in between the maples is a good strategy. You can evaluate them too as you decide.
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gottagarden
Original Author
17 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I got platanus x acerifolia because it is reputed to be more disease resistant than sycamores. ( I love the smell of sycamores. ) It is not any specific cultivar.
quirkyquercus
17 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Conratulations on your decision to remove the invasive pest from your allee. As you can see their performance in the landscape is often not so great either. You'd be doing the right thing and especially not to patronize the industry any more for those norway maples. For every one norway maple you buy, they will produce 5 more. Makes me want to scream.

Last year I planted a London Planetree 'Yarwood' that I bought from a local grower in a 2.5" size and approximately 24' tall for around $100. I've wanted a sycamore-like tree on my street since I saw the ones in Julie's tree diary (treegrowersdiary.com) I replaced a Zelkova that was planted by the builder and had lost all its branches in a variety of storms. This bark on the yarwood is very white and mottled. More so than native sycamore which I would have planted if I could have found one. This year it looks like it's grown another inch in caliper! Got stunned by the Easter Freeze unfortunately.
London plane does have a different mature size and slightly different habit than native American Sycamore. It is more rounded and not quite so tall from what I've read.

I'm pleased with it so far and can't wait til it drapes over the street. I think you will be happy with it too although I would suggest, as usual, a mixed planting. Maybe drop some LP's here and a little oak there and some elm over there. You see so there is some protection against a total wipeout.
spruceman
17 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
As for the "London Plane" and anthracnose: I have never seen it on any, at least not that I remember. It is supposed to be susceptible, but so are a lot of trees, including white oak, if the weather is "wrong." But in areas where the weather can be persistently cool and wet in the spring, it may be a problem. Here in Winchester, VA I can't see it being a poblem. And it wasn't in NJ where my hometown is.

Gottagarden: Your London plane is not any specific cultivar? I have a question for anyone who reads this. I had always assumed that these London plane hybrids were vegetatively propagated. So they are all clones of some cultivar, even if it is not identified as such when sold. Am I right?

--Spruce
gottagarden
Original Author
17 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
In the winter I asked about mail order sources of london plane tree and received some suggestions. It was recommended to get "bloodgood" but none of the mail order places had a cultivar listed in the description. (National Arbor Day society used to list bloodgood, but a week after finding their site, they changed the description to remove "bloodgood". Otherwise I would have ordered from them.)

But since this is a hybrid, I had the same thought as you, that they are vegetatively propagated and therefore clones. If going to the effort to vegetatively propagate, one would think they would only bother with named cultivars. But if a named cultivar, don't you think they would list it, since it generally suggests a better quality tree, and hence makes the tree more desirable to buyers? I would like to hear others ideas on this as well.
spruceman
17 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Gottagarden:

Yes, you would think so. But I have two hybrid planes and one was sold to me as American sycamore, and when I bought the other I asked what the cultivar was and the sales person just gave me a quizzical look. I think they are cultivars even if the nursery does not know. I think this is one kind of tree where most buyers don't know, don't care, and dont ask, so nurseries don't bother to tell.

My guess is that most sold planetree hybrids are the Bloodgood. If you can get a named cultivar, I think that would be best, but I just bought mine on "faith," and so far so good.

One curious thing--I think it is in Jacobson (my copy is in the car right now)--the true "London plane" cultivar is a strange tree. It develops big trunks with burl-like knobs. Broad Street in my hometown of NJ has a couple of blocks lined with these on one side. When I was a kid interested in trees I had wondered about these. Now my questions have been answered by Jacobson, I think. These are nice trees, and interesting, but for my yard I would choose another cultivar.

--Spruce
vickys_eden
13 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I don't know why anyone would hate the crimson king maple, it is a gorgeous tree and fairly inexpensive unless of course as the original poster mentioned they do not establish for some reason and die :( I get my trees from a quality nursery in North Carolina(graggfarmsandnursery.com) and have had very few instances where I lost a tree or shrub but I know it can happen. Just my 2 cents..

Here is a link that might be useful: The plant nursery I mentioned...

Please-opinion needed asap re plane trees vs. crimson king maple

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spruceman

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Please-opinion needed asap re plane trees vs. crimson king maple

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spruceman

WendyB 5A/MA

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