It's neat how things like this appear in the spring. Otherwise they are hard to notice without blooms. I found a patch of something that looked like Gallicas blooming in a ditch behind the local health club.

Walking through a local nature trail we happened upon r. nutkana. The leaves smell of pine to me, big blowsy beautiful ...

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but, maybe yours is r. californica, Jackie...?

Here is a link that might be useful: r. californica

Ok, as promised, here are some pictures - blooms (with bee), bush, and (fuzzy) hip. The hips are brownish red, and spherical, and about the size of a large green pea.

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Any thoughts?

Jackie

Jackie,

Keying it out in The Jepson Manual (though photographs don't provide all the details) brings it to Rosa californica, which is actually what I would expect. The only other native possibility, both according to the key and the location, would be R. nutkana, but a number of traits, especially the number of flowers in each inflorescence, favor R. californica. I wish my clone (a dud, I think) bloomed as nicely as this one.

Debbie

Thanks, Debbie! Just what I wanted to know. When I took these pictures today, it was almost finished blooming - last week it was in full bloom, which is why I noticed it.

We have a cabin up in the Trinity Alps in No Cal, and there are some much smaller bushes growing there, with really small leaves, flowers, and hips, and a much darker color to the roses. i will take pictures of that when I go up there in 2 weeks if they are still blooming - I don't know if they are a different kind, or if they are just different because, unlike these, no one is feeding and watering them!

Jackie

Jackie, within the species, there seem to be differences -- Probably in part because of some random pollination.
But I'd guess that populations in widely separated areas could vary, too.

Jeri

Cass Bernstein commented once about trying to figure out whether a rose was r. californica or r. nutkana to look at the distribution maps; that there are too many variances within each of these to id it otherwise. That's what Jeri is saying too, I think.

Do the leaves smell of pine to you? So fun to see roses pop up in unexpected places.

Harborrose, good point: the second thing every botanist does is just that, after keying the thing out (well, maybe the third -- we also sneak a peak at CalPhotos). If you look at the collection records (Consortium of California Herbaria and Calflora are the main ones online -- some overlap, but not completely) for Marin County, there are a maximum of 4 records for R. nutkana (basically 2 locations: Bull Point Trail in Pt. Reyes and Rodeo Lagoon in GGNRA). There are 48 for R. californica. Interestingly, the two different species have been found in roughly the same location or area, at least (id error, one might think), but there is a case where it is the same collector who collected the two different species at Pt. Reyes 2 months apart in the same year: Doreen Smith, 1999, R. nutkana at Bull Point Trail, R. californica at Sir Frances Drake Blvd., also Pt. Reyes.

So, that is interesting, and does imply some possibility of hybridization, at least very locally. And where would those R. nutkana (which is predominantly farther north in distribution) come from? The locations are coastal, so maybe the hips came on ocean currents from up north. Or, another possibility, maybe those actually were 1-flowered R. californica that also had some other traits more like R. nutkana. Time for DNA analysis!

One reason I lean toward R. californica is the number of flowers in the cluster. In your photo, note that the flowers are carried singly and that is how the Jepson Manual lists # of flowers in the inflorescence of R. nutkana: 1(6), meaning usually occurring as a single flower with an odd case of more flowers, up to 6 max. (might even be just one record or population that had that). For R. californica, it says (1)3-30(50) flowered, which fits the rose in Jackie's picture better. There are some other things, but I've rambled on long enough (sorry, do this for a living...) .

Jackie, R. californica is all over California, but there are a few species that only occur in the northern part of the state and those mountain ranges, so it may very well be a different species at your cabin in the Trinity Alps. You might be able to id it by looking at the roses species photos on CalPhotos. Google "CalPhotos plants" and click on "R" under names.

Debbie

Actually, just read, per the Jepson Manual, that the plants of R. nutkana found in Marin County are thought possibly hybrids with other species.

Harborrose, Rosa nutkana var. nutkana is supposed to have glands on the leaflets, especially underneath, so there would be the pine smell. I love roses with those glands.

Do the r. californica have those glands also? I wondered if r. californica has that pine smell as well or another fragrance as a way to differentiate between the two.

As far as I'm concerned, you can "ramble on" indefinitely, Debbie. It's fascinating stuff.

Jackie, thanks for posting your pictures. I got so excited to see the r. nutkana on our walk and then to think it might be kin to what you saw as well.

Gean

The thorns and sepals do not look like nutkana. Nutkana has straight thorns, and sepals that are constricted in the middle and flare out at the tips.

Rosa gymnocarpa could be growing in the Trinity Alps and the flowers are darker and smaller than most other wild roses. The whole plant is smaller than nutkana, with smaller leaflets and thorns too. When it sets hips, the sepals fall off - the best identifying characteristic. But, fertilizer and irrigation make a huge difference too in how big a wild rose will get.

Roses hybridize across species at the drop of a hat. Remember that all our garden roses are complex interspecific hybrids. And as with nearly all wild species, there is the potential for a great deal of variation between populations and between individuals within a population. There are multiple subspecies of R. nutkana, which is native over a very wide area with greatly varying climates and soils. The USDA lists 4 subspecies of nutkana, ranging from Alaska to New Mexico, with 3 of them in CA somewhere. And, there are naturalized non native species of roses. R. canina, arvensis, multiflora, etc. all naturalize, after being introduced as rootstocks for garden roses, or whatever. And then they can hybridize with the local native roses!

So keying out and identifying wild roses is quite the challenge. So many possibilities!

Gean, On R. californica, for leaves and sepals, the Jepson says "glandular or not". So, I guess there are glandular individuals, but I just went out and checked the ones I have and no glands. So, can't say what R. californica might smell like. It would be nice if it had a different scent! -- Debbie

I love species roses! My local botanic garden, Rancho Santa Ana Botanic Garden in Claremont has a really nice collection of California native species roses collected from around the state (and even more in their seed collection).

RSABG has R. californica growing on the grounds from Colusa, Santa Barbara, San Diego, and Siskiyou (this plant is spineless), etc. counties, sometimes multiple selections from these counties. I have pics of some of them, but they are not all together in a rose garden per se, but scattered around the garden in the plant communities in which they would be found naturally. This makes it really fun and interesting to see how they grow and what they like. They are not all identical.

I have 3 that I have purchased from RSABG: R. californica 'Los Berros' (a selection by David Fross of Native Sons Nursery in Arroyo Grande, California and named for the road, Los Berros, it was found on--Los Berros has larger and darker flowers and larger and thicker leaves than is typical of the species), R. californica 'First Dawn' (a selection from Suncrest Nurseries, California, FD has very pale pink, small cupped flowers and blooms in huge sprays, few thorns), and R. californica grown by RSABG (this is a newly-arrived plant in a 1 gallon pot that I bought at their spring nursery 50% off sale, it has just produced its first flower for me which was a light to medium pink). All 3 are extremely fragrant. Los Berros has particularly "plushy" feeling leaves. It is also very, very thorny whereas First Dawn has few thorns. The latest arrival has almost no thorns. Unfortunately the label on the pot doesn't identify from which county this plant originated.

RSABG does have R. nutkana in its plant communities. I have pictures of their R. nutkana from Sonoma county, both this year and last (I'm pretty sure I took some of its hips), but I don't have any pics (easily remedied!) of their R. nutkana var. muriculata from Del Norte county.

They also have R. pinetorum and R. gymnocarpa (I just recently took photos of this one in bloom during a neat spring walking tour led by one of the RSABG volunteers).

My hard drive now has, I'm afraid to say, easily hundreds of photos taken at RSABG.;) Maybe now is a good time to try out the new photo posting utility for this forum. It always seems to take me forever to get things posted first on Flickr. Hopefully I can get some photos uploaded for you to see and maybe they will be helpful.

Below is R. nutkana from Sonoma county.

I just uploaded a bunch of species rose photos to Flickr.

Rosa nutkana from Sonoma County:

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RSABG on 5/23/12

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RSABG on 5/23/12

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RSABG on 5/23/12

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RSABG on 5/23/12

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RSABG on 5/23/12

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RSABG on 5/23/12

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RSABG on 4/11/12

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RSABG on 4/11/12

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RSABG on 11/13/11

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RSABG on 11/13/11

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RSABG on 7/21/11

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Now some photos of R. californica:

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R. californica from San Diego County, RSABG on 7/21/11

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R. californica 'Los Berros' in the California Cultivar Garden, RSABG 11/13/11

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R. californica 'Los Berros' in the California Cultivar Garden, RSABG 11/13/11

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R. californica 'Los Berros' in the California Cultivar Garden, RSABG 11/13/11

R. californica 'Los Berros' in the California Cultivar Garden, RSABG 11/13/11

Now for a couple photos of R. gymnocarpa (sorry was during a garden tour and I didn't have time to get better pics as I was trying to keep up!):

RSABG on 4/18/12

RSABG on 4/18/12

Melissa

Here are some photos of the R. californicas I grow.

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R. californica 'First Dawn' on 6/13/12 in my garden. Plant grown by and a selection of Suncrest Nurseries, CA and purchased from RSABG during their fall plant sale in November 2011.

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R. californica 'First Dawn'

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R. californica 'First Dawn'

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R. californica 'First Dawn'

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R. californica 'First Dawn'

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R. californica 'First Dawn'

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R. californica 'First Dawn' on 5/13/12. Flowers tend to hold a cup shape, sometimes very much so, at other times more open. Doesn't get completely flat or reflex like R. c. 'Los Berros'. Blooms in big sprays. Few thorns. New growth mostly greenish, sometimes with a slight bronzy caste. Slighlty fuzzy leaves.

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R. californica 'First Dawn'

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R. californica 'Los Berros'

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R. californica 'Los Berros' on 5/13/12. Plant purchased in spring 2011 from the garden shop at RSABG. A selection of David Fross, Native Sons Nursery, Arroyo Grande, CA. Named for the road on which it was found growing. Tends to bloom singly (as opposed to in a spray). Is quite thorny and very fragrant. New growth is often purplish/bronzish. Flowers are larger and darker than R. c. 'First Dawn'. Leaves are plush/fuzzy and feel like velvet.

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R. californica 'Los Berros'

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R. californica 'Los Berros'

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R. californica 'Los Berros'

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R. californica in a 1 gallon pot. Purchased from RSABG's Grow Native Nursery, spring 2012 during a 50% off sale. Shown with its first bloom for me on 6/14/12. This was the first day the flower was open, and it didn't have a full 5th petal, just that little bitty thing. Don't know if it will do that again or whether the first and only flower it has had was unique. This plant is almost completely thornless (that's why I bought it as the others were pretty thorny) .

Melissa

Melissa and Gene thank you both so much for bringing up this subject. There are 2 bushes in our neighborhood which I have been trying to identify for the past while. Neither of them had been planted they just appeared. Both of them look like Melissa's first photo. Both smell as Gene mentioned. An almost piney smell. But in this local there are many ppine trees so until she mentioned it I thought that perhaps one of the pine trees had brushed up on the rose bush during a recent storm. Silly me.
Prior to this the r. nutkana I had seen had a deeper pink rose tone. These two are a very pale pink. From a distance I've noticed others in bloom in the area.
Interesting that the rose grows so prolifically in the South Puget Sound area which has much colder winters than Northern California.
I hope some day to figure out how to post photos...ah some day.
Jeannie

One thing I've noticed about R. californica around here is that the foliage smells a bit like sage. Fred Boutin has also noticed this scent in the Sierra foothills. I have two plants at home, and have never noticed this scent on the leaves here, although I know one plant came from a scented wild plant. I suspect they put out the scent in response to browsers such as deer, but since I have no deer, they don't need to be scented here.
Jill