Yes and no. Most of the poeple I know, including ones in my church wouldnt think it odd. In fact one of my friends at my church has gardened for 50 something years now, so he appreciates roses, though isnt as bitten with them as Ive turned out to be. But when I go to nurseries and im the only guy hanging out it does seem weird sometimes! If i ramble on about how much I love to grow veggies at work they dont think thats wierd. But the moment I tell them im exited about my roses being shipped, they look at me strange.

Oh well... most guys dont know what they are missing then =P.

Silverkelt.

Celeste,

Good thread ... I've wondered about this too. My DH still has that blank look in his eyes. However, he's so eaten up with golf that he's become what I call "self guilting". I don't have to nag him to do anything anymore. Because I encourage him to play golf at every opportunity, when I ask him to do something, I only have to ask once and it gets done immediately. A beautiful thing.

He does carry on about how beautiful I'm making the yard. He will walk through the gardens with me and "ooh and aah". For me, it doesn't get much better than that.

bloominganne

I get kissed by the neighborhood ladies as I have been helping them grow roses but refuse to take money for it.I tell them it would take the fun out of roses for me.Not only have I not been teased by anyone but the guys stop and ask me how and what am I doing differently than they.More often then not we laugh at our battle scars[heart operations scars].This is a retirement community with people from all over and we are all over playing the macho role-lol.
What,pray tell,does sitting on your duff and watching someone else playing sports have to do with being manly.Never did understand that so never really got into it.Preferred to climb my own mountains.

My husband has some appreciation for the roses, he loves looking at and smelling them and will help me dig, but it doesn't really go beyond that. However he did accompany me to the Ashdown seminar last fall and felt a bit out of place as one of the few men. However, he had a great time.

We are also big cat people, and that is another issue. Men with cats - not done! Men = Dogs, Cats = Women....

lol @ bloominganne's "self-guilting" dh. My dh needs a dose of that!

Celeste, reading your post about your husband getting into roses with you put a smile on my face. I wish my dh would take more of an interest. He is supportive but doesn't have much interest or take any initiative with the roses.

The best I can do is this: When we were planning the new construction that would temporarily displace half of my large perennial garden, I told dh that it would be an opportunity to redesign. He said "maybe you could turn it into a rose garden". So ever since then (when ordering too many roses or spending too much time out there) I remind him that it was his idea.

Hi Everyone....

THANKS for your great responses!

I am happy to see that for some of you, people admire and support your rose hobby...(and for some of you (wink) it even helps with the ladies). My DH isn't one bit interested in sports either, and probably gets extra flack because he'd rather be outside working in the yard or reading a book then sitting on the couch drinking beer and hooting for a bunch of guys who get paid way too much. It occurs to me that maybe its his appearance or his age, but the stereotype is that guys that look like him should be doing "he-man" stuff (whatever that is). We own 4 cats too, and he loves those furbabies almost as much as I do.
Every night Nemo and Cosmo are curled up next to him sleeping...its adorable.

Its not everyone who thinks he's strange for liking roses, mostly just the young yahoos who don't know much anyways. He doesn't get flack from more mature folks, because a lot of the older men garden also. As I said, he's o.k. with it and just shrugs it off. I think all you guys here are terrific! Happy rose-ing!

Celeste

Although I'm the gardener in our relationship hubby does love roses. He's been fascinated with them since he was a young boy. He however thinks they take way more energy than he's willing to expend. He's been great with helping with the really heavy or really hard stuff though. Even has built a structure or two. I guess the only teasing he receives is from me when I can't resist a chuckle when he asks "How is Souvenir de la Papa San doing?" If I ever had to name a new rose, think I'd have to name it that just for him. He still gets that blank stare when I go on and on too much about this rose or that rose.

Annie

Sure I get the look from some of my buddies, and some even tease me for my love of roses. It seems like it is not considered a masculine trait to be really good at growing roses and gardening for "real" man. Some even think it is so gay for a man to love roses.

I was the one that had to show my girlfriend roses since she always complained that roses she bought had no fragrance. Well given her a boquet of papa meilands, mr. lincoln and Erotica roses changed that ... I try to educate her about Austins and OGRs and drag her to rosegardens and she so enjoys the roses, even though I suspect she likes the fact that I am passionate about roses more than the roses.
She now grow her own favorite roses and she carries a little vase with a few blooms around a sniffs them all the time....sighing.

But she says gardening is such hard work and I have to remind her to fertilize and water her roses. I suspect she will never really be into gardening but she loves my garden.
So does many women on the street... I think their husbands are jealous.

My husband and I garden together and roses are our mutual hobby. He spends more time gardening than I and knows exactly where every rose is because he planted most of them. His only complaint is that women tend not to credit him with any knowledge and gape at him in disbelief and admiration when he knows the name of a rose. When we had an Open Garden years ago we split the group of visitors in half and took one half each round the garden. Some of the women still talk in awe about my husband but he feels insulted rather than pleased.

40 yr old bachelor here with about 20 zone 3's in the back yard.

heck no! the chicks at work dig it. they all want to come over and see my back garden.

This has been a very fun and interesting thread to read! My DH shares the love of roses with me. Mostly I buy a rose, he digs the hole and plants it. He's the one that works on the drip system and piping for them. He really loves to spend time pruning the roses- and he's really good at that. I prefer to deadhead and water. He works hard trying to manhandle all the climbers to their arches and trellises.

My husband isn't a sports type at all either; we prefer to watch old musicals, work on and enjoy our gardening efforts, and go ballroom dancing together. Oh, and he loves to tea party with me and our school age son and daughter. His other big passion is model trains (our holiday train layout we have done twice in December is called the TeaRose Garden Railroad), and the back yard will eventually have a large scale railroad running in most of it. He will be planting the rose "Mermaid" along the fence line where his train pond will be- his idea! I keep telling him how big this puppy will get... Before I met he was really into orchids, but just didn't have the space for growing them. When we first got our house, he used to talk about putting a greenhouse in the back yard, but that idea was replaced when we discovered the trains. There are two large metal rose arches that the train layout has to be worked around. One has two Ghislaine de Feligonde, clematis and honeysuckle, the other has one Belle Vichysoise and honeysuckle. The pond and Mermaid will be able to be seen through the arches when standing on the lawn area.

I have never heard him say anyone has ever said something negative about his being a rose gardener (we now have over 100). He works long hours for a computer company out here, so I'm sure the gardening is relaxing for him. He never gets me florist roses (our own are better and they all smell and look fabulous!), we order new ones for our house instead! Though I did have a dozen red roses delivered to his work on his birthday when we first met.

Our concrete/brick contractor's wife was having her birthday while he and the crew were building in our front yard in Feb. He said she liked yellow roses, so he and I walked through our yards and I let him pick some favorites for her. I cut them, trimmed them up and put a bouquet in wet paper toweling an foil for him to take to her. She really enjoyed them, and he got a kick out the whole thing. I said to tell her these were roses personally chosen for her from a "private estate", and far better than florist ones! I tell guy friends why buy cut roses for a wife gift, when you can give and plant her a rose that she'll enjoy for years!

careytearose

Seems like it's mostly other guys who think guys who like roses are "off." Women like it!

Back when I was into orchids, there was a guy at the orchid society meetings who would bring his wife. She was a rose person and would walk around rolling her eyes at the weird orchid people. And the orchid people obviously thought she was a tasteless dilettante for failing to recognize the superiority of orchids. I'm thinking they must have had beautiful and amazing flowers inside AND outside their house! And it's easier to combine two horticultural hobbies than, say, a horticultural with a sports-card collection or something.

I gotta say, orchids are WAY more interesting. But they are also way more work and a lot more finicky about blooming. I am not good enough at them, so roses make more sense for me at this point.

My completely amateur observation is that the gay-male participation level is much much higher in orchids than in roses. But I have to assume that's why some people are not comfortable with men who have a horticultural hobby.

I personally would be happy to hook up with someone who enjoys any kind of gardening. But a first important question is "does he like dogs," 'cuz my dogs aren't going anywhere....

My hubby will take a look and smell them if I mention it to him, but that's about it. He will go shopping with me and help me purchase potting mix and other supplies. He shows no interest in any of my catalogs, but I don't mind. He has his hobbies and I have mine. I do remember him saying once that he was surprised at how many men enjoy growing roses and other flowers.

It raises a few eyebrows among a few people.

Having survived far worse indignities and depredations, I really don't care.

:)

MichaelAT

Yup, but seems to be a North American hangup of the male species and culture or those with very large protruding hairy brows that never co-mingled with the homosapiens during the evolutionary process ... heck even my kids call me bent for rose gardening ... but let me tell you it attracts bees to honey like you would not believe ... so you girls better keep an eye on hubby who likes to garden because maybe he discovered something I did ... hahaha

No fella who has shown Afghan Hounds (as my DH has) would worry about being thought odd for growing roses. In fact, prior to his retirement, he said he could ALWAYS get department secretaries to get things done for him -- since he was the fella who brought roses for all of their offices.

Jeri Jennings

we are all over playing the macho role-lol.

Being "male" is biological, but being "masculine" is a social construct. In this country it usually means you can't be interested in flowers (& certainly not roses). Thank goodness not all men see things that way!

I don't get razzed, but I know too much about the roses I'm interested in. I know how to plant them so that they enhance the real estate value of a plot of land, and I know how to grow them so that they will be inherently beautiful and enjoyable. I also can share some history about them (like that the York rose was grown by the Greeks and Romans in their gardens).

You do enough of that and people shut up.

My friend Allen grows beautiful roses, his wife loves the flowers, but has no idea and no interest in gardening. Can you imagine having a man bring you flowers every single day that he grew for you?
I can tell you, nobody I know teases Allen about his flowers or his violin playing. What a marvellous man!

GGG

I gotta say, orchids are WAY more interesting. But they are also way more work and a lot more finicky about blooming. I am not good enough at them, so roses make more sense for me at this point.

I can easily understand how it's possible to feel that way, but somehow or other (with a few exceptions) orchids just don't do it or me. I'd rather grow African violets indoors (I'm not really into houseplants much at all). Too many orchids incorporate green, or brown, or muddy purple into their flowers, and too many orchids (to my eye) are seriously ugly when they're out of bloom (ie., most of the time).

To each his own.

Jeri -- LOL -- just think how secure his masculinity would be if had spent years showing... say... Maltese!

What a fantastic thread.

When I was about 7, at Sacred Heart School in Suffern, New York, we lived in a house on the Saddle River, and the azaleas were very fine...a nice salmon color, and I wanted to bring a bunch of them to Sister Anne Karen, OP. My mom told me all the kids would tease me, I told her I didn't care thankyouverymuch, and brought the flowers anyway. Sister was pleased. I don't remember what the other kids did.

Beauty attracts, whether it's Felicite Parmentier, Chopin op. 27 #2 in Db, or the Brahms Handel variations, or Cana in Galilee from The Brothers Karamazov.

I am really prattling. When I love something passionately, I guess I don't notice much what's going on around me. I just sort of zone. My friends got used to it and kind of tolerated it with amusement, and the rest just avoided me, I guess...I didn't notice.

Thank God so many people are attracted to the beauty though. And you know, I think maybe a lot more are than will admit it.

Sorry for prattling so much, but your great thread did it, Celestial!

Jerome

Oh, goodness. That is too bad. My DH loves them. He is always happy to visit a rose garden/affair.

York rose, I actually happen to like a lot of the green and brown tones in orchids. They are extraordinary to me. And the biology of orchid flowers is so far beyond any other flower in intricate evolutionary strategy, it's hard for me not to be fascinated. Also, the fact that you can make hybrids composed of literally a half dozen different genera make them unique on Earth and a thing of wonder. And, if it's sheer beauty you want, there are many in "rose" tones with frills, ruffles, stripes, blends, etc. -- and some smashing, amazing fragrances. However -- I totally understand that it's different strokes... if everyone loved orchids, the world would not be as interesting a place. I myself can live without daylilies -- there, I said it! And I really don't care for 99% of the pale pink roses. I don't really like pale pink anything (though I put up with it in daphne for the fragrance). You probably love pale pink. It's all good, like being married to someone who likes red Jujyfruits (I prefer the black, thanks).

Speaking of brown, I'd be happy if once in life I could grow and bloom a Laelia tenebrosa... I just don't have the money. Sigh.

I've had limited luck with orchids. Which consists of getting my $9.99 Publix orchid to rebloom 4 years in a row. I have another one give to me at Xmas. It's in my office and has shed it's blooms so I'm going to bring it home and try to get it to rebloom.

I can't recall a single time that I've ever been teased about my love of roses and gardening in general. Maybe it's something about the south but lots (if not most) men love gardening and those who don't are probably ashamed to admit it. When I was playing golf regularly I got teased about chasing that little white ball around just to hit it again. Now my wife gets ridiculed (jokingly) about not helping me in the garden but that's ok, it's probably not big enough for both of us anyway.

Always one of my favorite topics. I like sports. Played rugby in college and later. Ice hockey too. I like manly tools too. I want a Harley real bad.

I started with vegetables. But soon came the flowers. Come to think of it, I like antiques, musicals and most of my friends are women. Uh, oh, what could this mean? Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

I'm going to stick my head in the middle of my Korean Spice Viburnum and get so intoxicated that I can forget all this gender identity anguish I am facing.

Well if they did I would just stomp my foot and throw my hand out and make them all stop being so mean to me! Mmph!

My own father grew everything from flowers to trees to vegetables so I grew up thinking that gardening was something fathers did. By mutual preference, in my house I am the chief gardener while Tom specializes in tomatoes. He appreciates the garden I have created and does a walkaround with me most mornings. He also makes wonderful obelisks and trellises for me out of copper pipe.

Anyway, I have noticed that men pay a very prominent part in all the florist societies, whether rose, camellia, fuschia, rhododendron, daylily, chrysanthemum...you name it, lots of men are busily involved.

People who raise their eyebrows at men gardening probably also shake their heads over men who collect books, or cook, or get involved in historic re-enactment, yet many men do these things with great passion.

Some people think that any activity that they themselves don't do themselves must be pretty darned strange.

Rosefolly

I consider myself a pretty macho guy. I did the ironman triathlon twice, numerous other endurance races and lift my share of weight in the weightroom. Gardening, in particular antique roses became something my wife and I could share and participate in together. I used to tell my training buddies, that I was attending a garden seminar with my wife and a bunch of little old ladies in hats.(it's a southern thing) I am not embarressed that I appreciate and get tremendous pleasure from growing OGR's. It is a great stress reliever in a hectic life and something I'll never stop learning about and can do forever.

Clint

Interesting thread!
Some of the best gardeners I met are men...

Will try to motive york_rose to grow orchids...they are fun, and you can have a lot more of them than roses...I have 40 rose bushes..and about 400 orchids :)

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Olya

Anyone getting hungry for quiche . . . ?

I must admit I have never even thought about it. I spend all day long with two men and a very large rose garden. We do it for a living of course, but the reason we even got into this crazy business was because of our love of the rose. Lord knows we don't do it for the money.

Trish

Olya, what beautiful orchids. I could never grow a Vanda... never had enough heat or light. Is the little minicatt an Lc. Mini Purple? That last picture is spectacular -- I bet that is a multimultigeneric. What is it? I had an Aliceara once that I was crushed never to be able to bloom. OTOH I had quite good luck with a McClellanara Pagan Love Song 'Ruby Charles' FCC/AOS for a few years... York Rose would have hated it (brown! green!), but lord it was spectacular.

Golly, I miss mine. Basically, none of them survived my two-stage move out of state, and I can't cope with providing a good environment for them here, so I'm letting go. :(

thank you, nickelsmumz8 :)
Close call; not Lc. Mini Purple, but sure does look like it. It is L. sincorana x Slc. Sierra Doll. A minicatt, indeed :)
And yes, last one is a multimultigeneric - Bllra. Marfitch 'Howard's Dream'.
Orchids are just as fascinating as roses, if not a bit more; for me they win by variety :)

Sounds like you know a whole lot about orchids - you should definitely give them another try :)
Olya

My DH has to listen to every little detail about my roses but he honestly doesn't care about growing them or anything else out there. He will buy one for me if he finds them on clearance, and he was a stellar partner when the freeze came and helped me drag sheets and drape them. He gets props for the little things he does to support my addiction.

Beyond that... I'm SO glad to have so many men in this forum- makes it so much more fun from my vantage point. So thanks guys- all of you!

Nancy

I've been passionate about gardening since I was a very young boy (I had my first garden at 4, it consisted of daylilies and portulaca, and seeing those seedpods and the fleshy leaves and beautiful flowers of portulaca always bring back fond early memories). I used to worry when I was in school about being teased for being into gardening, so I just never brought it up. All that worrying, and nothing ever happened! LOL Anyway, I never have been teased about it, and in general, most people just appreciate anyone who's good at growing any plant, including roses.

I did go through an orchid passion phase, particularly in my 20s. I still enjoy seeing orchids, but unless they're hardy and can be grown outdoors, I don't think too much about them now, though I do have one miniature cymbidium.

I got a laugh at Pete's comment. I just don't have the patience or whatever to watch any sort of TV during the day, I'd rather be outside, usually. Most of the rest of my family, including two of my sisters are very much into sports. I found it hard to be interested in watching other playing most sports, particularly team sports, I just don't relate to that. I do like watching tennis sometimes, however, even though I hardly have a clue how to play it!

--Ron

Honestly I have never brought it up in the Ducati Club, something about Italian Motorcycles and men with a love of roses might throw them off. Worse comes to worst I could throw out a fact about a 6000 mile service that with the extra parts thrown in comes to the same amount as all of the roses I have bought in the last eight years. Kidding Betty its actually only the last seven years, don't throw that pot theres a rose in it.

Lance

WOW!....I didn't expect so many responses to my post, and I have enjoyed & appreciated each and every comment. I am glad to hear that for most men, gardening & loving roses is accepted and best of all, respected.

My own father has been a gardener all his life, and at the age of 83 still has an elaborate vegetable garden, berry bushes, grape arbor, fruit trees, etc. and plants flowers for my mom who has Alzheimer's to enjoy. So I was blessed in that I had a great male figure to look up to and who passed on to me the love of growing things. I guess because my DH just recently became interested in roses, that it gives other men something to "talk" about.
But certainly, no one's comments would EVER change his newfound interest in roses.

In fact, we have a novel approach to combining his two interests, motorcycles and roses. As I have mentioned here before, DH and I "rustle" roses by motorcycle. We travel all over our state on the bike, stopping at old cemeteries to search for old rosebushes to take a cutting from, to preserve a priceless part of history & heritage.

THANK YOU to all who responded, and happy gardening!

Celeste

Olya, I didn't really think it could be Mini Purple because I think Mini Purple has a pretty solid purple lip -- at least the varieties I remember do. But it was close.

In a probably vain attempt to convey one reason orchids are so interesting, that Bllra is a 4-genus hybrid. Brs x Cda x Milt x odm, i.e. Brassia, Cochlioda, Miltonia and Odontoglossum are all in that plant's family tree. Quite amazing. And just now searching, I found Sallyyeeara which consists of NINE genera! Wowzie.

Well, now you've gone and done it. I went out looking for pictures of Aliceara to find the one I could never bloom, and I can't find it. 45 minutes later... Argh!

Sorry for hijacking the thread. If GW made it less impossible to email people privately, I would have taken it private.

nickelsmumz8, I am glad I could enable :)
If you have any questions (so we do not hijack the thread again :)), you are welcome to email me: smarodzi@csee.usf.edu

Olya

Men growing roses?

-That's hot!

My DH had no choice - I was growing roses long before I met him. As it's all evolved he's learned their names and is fascinated with their stories. He's a wine guy by profession and finds the histories of wine and roses to be similar and often parallel. He's surprised himself though - he never thought he'd find roses so fascinating. He doesn't get teased at all. Of course, the fact that he's tall and slender and not the "macho" type may play a part.

Another parallel between wine and roses that tickles him is how well roses grow in used wine barrels. :-)

Hi!

So this is where we separate the men from the boys? Men know who they are. If they want to grow roses, they do. If they want to build rooms onto their houses and lift weights, they do. As do I. As does my wife, come to think of it.

The local ARS chapter is at least half male. OTOH, the barn where we board our horses is about 95% female. And young, superfit females at that. So any guy who's wondering why I hang out there needs to meet Donna or Amber, or...

I buy roses all by myself. I have NEVER gotten a funny look. Maybe I hang around with other men. Men.

Yeesh.

Great thread, loved it. Have to go off and do some interior design now. :-)

Les

Hi everyone!
Celeste, first I want to tell you how much I enjoyed your article in the current Heritage Rose Groups newletter. I wish I could do the same thing: wind in my hair, holding on tight, and exploring the highways and byways with my sweet husband via motorcycle, sounds like a lot of fun. Too bad I am scared to death of motorcycles!!! (I cannot believe I just admitted that on this forum!!!)

I have loved roses since early childhood, due to my mother's love of them, and spending some time with her in her "garden" (well, just a suburban yard, really, but when you are a preschooler, the whole world is bigger, you know?). I have had small gardens at each home I have lived in, and even when I was young and single, I would at least have houseplants and a rose or two in a large pot out on the patio or deck of my apartments.

My husband Johnny and I married in 1996, and he knew from my small pot ghetto at the time that a larger garden would be inevitable once we bought a home together. Although he is not a gardener by nature, he is very much an outdoorsman, and he was content that I would want a nice big garden. Whether it was roses, other flowers, or vegetables would not have interested him at all.

We bought our home in 1999, and before we had moved in, the garden plans were beginning inside my head. As soon as we had made this older house habitable inside, I changed my focus to the outside...

Being the nice guy that Johnny is, he took my planning and excitement in stride. He could be counted upon to dig some holes, and assist with maintenence. But no way would he help pick what roses and other plants to buy, or help choose where to plant them: "You just tell me where to dig, and I will dig" mentality, lol.

I joined the Texas Rose Rustlers, and Johnny has been sweet enough to tag along with me to the meetings. After all, how many times have I gone with him to the deer camp, or out fishing, etc, just so we could spend some time together? He met several men in that club that are avid gardeners of every description, particularly rose gardening. He listened to the speakers at each meeting, he joined in the socialization, he made friends with all the sweet older ladies that think of him as one of the nicest guys they have met... and before you knew it, he was asking questions, becoming curious about soil science, propagation, hybridization, and even would love to try his hand at growing roses from seed.

Several years and hundreds of planting holes later, Johnny still doesn't consider himself a gardener. He leaves that distinction to me. He is the gardener's helper in his mind. He has lots of pictures of me in the garden that he loves, and I know it is not just that the pictures are of his wife! I think one would have to be heartless to spend so much time caring for the earth and not be able to develop an abiding love for the plants that you have nurtured! And anyone that knows Johnny, knows that he is a man with a very big, very happy and loving heart!

Does he get teased for gardening with me? Not that I have ever heard. Would it bother him? I doubt it. He is pretty strong minded, and can hold his own in any circumstances (except for needles.... he nearly passed out during a minor procedure once, but that is a tale for a different sort of forum!)

I wonder what sort of folks would think it odd for a man to garden? Maybe I am naive, but gardening is pretty common here in Texas. Lots of us come from Farming roots. And there are generations of hybridizers to look to for the nobility of the art of gardening. How many of the founding fathers of the United States were gentleman farmers before they were called to become patriots? I doubt they *only* grew their cash crops, but probably also grew things that they fancied. ... That reminds me that Thomas Jefferson was just such a man. His garden journals still exist, and he was, I think, the original American "Master Gardener"! Maybe there are problems with people's thinking nowadays, to disparage a man for being agrarian, rather than just a hunter-gatherer! Seems to me that agriculture was a step up on the evolutionary pathway.

My final thoughts: Anyone that is foolish enough to question the masculinity of a male gardener is deserving of having a whiskey barrel full of compost, or a trash can full of fermented alfalfa tea dumped on their head! And anyone that stops to think about it will realize that rose gardening ain't for sissies! Most roses have big, mean thorns, and they bite. Anybody that would laugh at a guy that wrestles Mermaid without fear is lacking in brainpower. And last but not least, as Poodlepup knows, men that grow roses... yeah, they're hot! And most of them don't even know it!

Allison

Same folks who would tease a many about being into roses are the same ones who would tease him if he was into football. "oh so you like running around in tight pants" yadda yadda yadda! They are also the same ones who pick fights with bouncers and cops (someone out there must want to kill me)

You are a real man, Scott.

Thanks for reviving this thread, Scott. It's made me laugh. I wish I'd been on this forum in Harryshoe's day.

I get harassed about it all the time. "You've lost your man card" etc.. i just laugh and then they call to see if they can have drinks and BBQ at our place since it's "pretty"

Such a pleasure to see all these contributions by forumers of the past! I'm surprised I didn't answer at the time. I've been lucky in the principal men in my life, brave strong guys who do whatever job needs to be done, without worrying whether they're men's or women's work. DH is like that: he's been doing chores in the garden for me for over a quarter of a century now. He started helping to please me, but as the years passed he's gotten fond of our garden for its own sake, liking the growth and the flowers. He still is not very knowledgeable about plants--but he's a champion waterer and mower--and the skilled work remains my province, but I'm glad he likes and is proud of the garden.