Austins like MD climate, if you providw some BS conrol. They grow into vigorous, very fragrant and arttractive bushes.
I have a friend in Oregon, that has great success with Austins. Could it be that something in your particular conditions (less sun, watterclogging, etc) that Austins roses didn't like.
Olga

They thrive in Pennsylvania. I've always felt that zone 6 was a perfect place for DA roses. No winter die back. Some spray for BS.

A guest at our Memorial Day picnic looked at William Shakespeare 2000 and asked "is that one rosebush? or is it a bunch of them planted together?" WS 2000 is a 6' wide by 4' tall bushy monster with 100+ buds on it.

Nothing but success with Austins here, as long as you spray as Olga mentioned. Perhaps some problem is that we expect roses to have monolithic growth patterns and when something doesn't act as a hybrid tea or floribunda we're befuddled. Several of my Austins are trained on those wonderful rebar tripods I discovered on this forum -- the rose would not be attractive otherwise, precisely because of the "octopus" growth. But why fight it? When you take the octopus arm horizontal as possible and round the tripod, you get a beautiful mass of blooms that behave much like a climber. Cut back the "laterals" after blooming and the rebloom is continual.

I only keep Heritage around because it was the one that got me excited about roses - but I have since happily moved on to the "real" antiques.

What Harry and Olga said :)

Just give them some spray for BS and they like it.

So what are the common denominators? Steady moisture retained by clay soils? Alkaline conditions? Humidity? Heat, but not too much?

Eric

I've had my Pat Austin, WS2000, and Graham Thomas for about a month now and they are EXPLODING with buds. I gave them some Rose-tone and I have 20+ buds on every one of them. I don't spray them with anything and the foilage looks great...in fact, Pat Austin looks like the healthiest rose I've ever seen with totally clean, glossy foilage, and every single cane and branch off a cane is vibrantly upright and erect. My only concern is how they will make it through the tortuous and evil Ohio winters. After that, it really doesn't even look like I need to spray them with anything. I just water religiously everyday and applied rosetone and I have 3 great looking austins.

The Austins do very well here in Northern Michigan zone 5. I'm up to about 55 of them now because they are hardier than hybrid teas here, more fragrant than most shrub roses, and less winter kill than floribundas. I do a very limited amount of spraying for blackspot (3-4 times a year) and that seems to be sufficient. They do need more fertilizer than some of my other roses, and especially seem to respond to organic feed. This thread is very interesting, as it appears there are specific areas where Austins seem to do well. I did see many beautiful Austins when I visited Vancouver Island a few years ago.

Love, love, love my Austins, plan to buy more. Heritage is my biggest rosebush, it's covered in buds, as are Scepter'd Isle, Tamora, and Mary Rose. New this year are Anne Boleyn, Abe Darby, and Crown Princess Margareta. Sophy's Rose is struggling, because I moved her and she didn't much care for that maneuver. But overall, Austins do well here in the midwest, IMO.

I didn't do well with my first round of them because I didn't know what to expect of shrub roses and didn't know how to handle them. Also 20 years ago there were exaggerated general claims of disease resistance that led to some disappointment.

The DA roses are quite various. In cane-hardiness they might vary from +5 to -15 F. Generally they are cane-hardy in zone 7a-6a where hybrid teas and floribundas are not. That's a big plus that accounts for the favorable reviews you see above from middle-zone gardeners. You get a nice chunky shrub for the first flush instead of, maybe, just a handful of basal shoots. However, Prospero and Fair Bianca are not reliably cane hardy for me, so I reluctantly gave up on FB.

In growth habit they include tidy compact shrubs, naturally shapely large shrubs, and a lot of unruly growers that require skillful management. However--although I've done so in the past--I shouldn't blame the rose for my lack of skill. American rose people generally have lost touch with the traditions about how to manage the unruly growers such as long-caned bourbons, hybrid perpetuals, and vigorous Austins. Jon, Olga, Andrea Georgia, and others bring great information to the board. With that, some patience, and an experimental attitude, any of us can learn how to make these plants bloom well and behave.

In disease resistance, a number of them reportedly can be good no-spray roses in the Midwest or Central Texas, but few if any in the eastern middle zones. However, there are few good no-spray roses of any kind for my climate. A number of the vigorous Austins are more resistant than the big bourbons and HPs.

Michael touches on the reason why (IMHO) Austins don't perform optimally in my SoCal Coastal conditions.

They're very much like HPs and Bourbons.
HPs and Bourbons are also, for the most part, poor performers here.

In our mild winters and generally-cool summers, these roses lack a winter sleep -- and without it, they just wear themselves out. That may be a contributing factor to their problems with various fungal diseases.

The Austins which are most-like HPs and Bourbons perform here just as poorly as most HPs and Bourbons.

Jeri

They perform great here in Idaho. High desert, dry conditions, not too hot, not too cold, zone 6.

I have shovel pruned lots of Austins that were disease prone, but I figured it was just that particular cultivar, and I've set out to find the 'best' Austins that do well here...

So far disease free and doing great, I have:

Lilian Austin
molineux
Prospero
william shakespeare 2000

New to me and on probation:

Lichfield Angel
The Shepherdess
Abraham Darby

Peggy,

I've had a similar experience in Washington. 2 Jubilee celebrations gone--they might have eventually performed alright, but I just didn't like them. 1 Teasing Georgia gone, one struggling. I LOVE the blooms on this rose. I don't love the canes breaking off at the base of the plant and the rampant canker. Falstaff is lovely, but is also almost gone due to canker. Foolish woman that I am, I'm giving Sharifa Asma a try--she's too new to tell one way or another.

Molineaux actually looks pretty healthy, and Tamora is in its second year as a band and is looking ok.

I love the look and fragrance of his roses, they just don't perform well under my growing conditions.

I think Austins thrive best in z6-7 in soils that are well drained with a preferably black clay mix in providing some organic nutrients. Personally, I don't think of them as a "full" sun rose as I have WS2000 in a spot that is pretty shady, and Pat Austin is on the north side getting intermittent bursts of sun and shade. Graham Thomas gets sun all the way up until 2, then all shade. In z6-7, the die back is less and many can get HUGE. I've seen pictures of people in NJ with Pat Austins that are almost 10ft. :0

They grow fine here too as long as I spray for BS.

Maybe we are generalizing too much on this thread. Again, they are quite various with different degrees of hardiness, preference for hot or cool summers, resistance to different diseases. 'Heritage' is said to have rust problems in coastal California but is fairly easy to grow elsewhere.

Lynnette grows around 50 DA roses in the PNW. Some that she gives favorable comments to are WS2000, Heritage, Grace, Geoff H., Sweet Juliet, Happy Child, Tess, Lilac Rose, Wildeve.

Lucretia -- We found that if we quit pruning them, the Austins lost that tendency to canker. So, now, the most "pruning" they get is an energetic deadheading.
Of course, not everyone WANTS huge roses -- but that's the only way we can grow them successfully.
They also appear to be very "thirsty" roses.
You don't want to grow Austins where drought is a problem, I think, for you cannot short them on water.

Jeri

Jeri,

Since I planted them in a place where I was expecting a smaller rose (based on the 3-4' called out on the tag--HAH!), they wouldn't have worked if left unpruned. One is in a spot where I might let it go a little more--maybe I'll lay off the shears and see if it does any better. When I let the canes on Teasing Georgia get a little longer, they would break off at the base. May be a water issue--having dealt with drought and water restrictions in the past, I do very little supplemental irrigation, although here in the PNW I've found a thick layer of newspaper and mulch keeps the ground fairly moist throughout the dry season in a "normal" year. Hate to see what's going to happen this year, as I'm overdue to mulch and we're short on rainfall.

Anyway, while the blooms are beautiful, they don't seem to be the right roses for me, when there are so many other beauties that behave very well with tough love.

I love my 13 Austins, but admittedly some do better than others--and I researched them carefully before I bought any. Turns out that many of the older Austins that were very popular for their blooms and fragrances aren't always the best --or at least, most trouble-free--ones to grow. As a result, I spray my selected Austins only occasionally, and several of them not at all. I also found that they most definitely improve with age.

Right now, the 3 Molineux that I planted in a triangle (rather close to each other) are growing like one fuller bush, and I have to go out daily (truth: several times a day!) to admire and enjoy them. They are 3 and 4 years old and blooming like crazy--so beautiful! I can't get enough of them.

Jubilee Celebration has been an aggravating wimp for several years, but this year (its 3rd or 4th--I forget)it has taken off and is covered in blooms. Shakespeare 2000 is blooming gorgeously. Mayflower is taking a short break but was the first rose to bloom in my garden--covered in blooms for a long period of time. Queen of Sweden got moved this spring to a better spot but is already starting to pump out blooms. I wouldn't give up these Austins (plus some others I have) for anything.

Admittedly, when our July-August temps hit 100 for any length of time, my Austins sulk and refuse to do anything--but so do most of my other roses--and myself as well!

I'm in Zone 6 (Kansas). We seem to have a midwestern theme going here, as far as Austins are concerned.

Kate

There are some Austins that I have grown no-spray down here. Molineux, Sharifa Asma, and Jude The Obscure do fantastic. I am trying Grace and Mary Magdeline in a pot. So far, so good. I have another on fortuniana that is flawless no spray, so far. I'm not sure what it is as it was mislabled. It looks a lot like Belle Story.

Then there are others that I love, such as Abraham Darby, that get blackspot constantly, even if sprayed. Those are gone.

Sandy

ok I will play too

I have 7
Golden Celebration
Pat Austin
Bishops Castle
Pretty Jessica
Tamora
Jude the obscure
Abraham Darby

Austins seem to do very well up here also. I have most of them in partial sun, in neutral, well-amended clay. Every spring is different, sometimes with a foot or more of live cane, but this spring, I had to cut them down pretty close to the ground. They haven't missed a beat, though, and are putting on lots of new growth. I love the blooms and the fragrance, and the only problems are a bit of floppy growth mid-summer, and a little blackspot towards the fall. So, no complaints here. I will definitely get more!
Judith

> I'm beginning to wonder exactly where they do well.

Chicago.

Bishop's Castle (my first Austin) loves it here. Tamora blooms her little heart out. Pat Austin does okay, but she's in a suboptimal location (not enough sun) and I must move her. Tradescant... wow. Just wow. The gorgeous Jude the Obscure and delicate-petaled Scepter'd Isle rounded out my collection last year. They only begin to blackspot quite late in the season. I give them some winter protection, but cane survival well above that protection is common.

This spring I've added Lady Emma Hamilton, Windermere, Abraham Darby and Brother Cadfael. I expect wonderful things from them! (And, naturally, I'm already plotting next year's acquisitions.)

Cindy, in the Windy City

I love Austin roses and and keep adding more each year. If it was not for them I may have gave up trying to grow roses. The tender hybrid teas all died when I first started growing roses. I have all varieties of roses but it is the Austins that really thrive in my soil. Today I picked a first bloom off of the Prince and it was heaven love love this one.

I'm glad to hear that they do well in the midwest. My few Austins do great. I've got The Prince which is my favorite. It's got lovely purple blooms that last decently in a vase. Jude the Obscure has a great scent and those perfect cupped blooms. Golden Celebration is a bit slower to get going but it looks like the third year is the charm as it is growing very well right now. WS2000 will bloom for the first time this spring and I can't wait.

they don't seem to be the right roses for me, when there are so many other beauties that behave very well with tough love.

*** Well, that's really the bottom line, isn't it?
The best way to be effortlessly successful at growing roses is to grow the roses best-suited to where you are growing them.

The trick is finding out what roses those are. :-)

Jeri

Here they do great.

Lucretia..where in the PMW are you? I am here in Gig Harbor. Short on rainfall? We have had a pretty rainy spring I thought? Anyway I have a Crown Princess Margaria or however you spell it..

My Austins have been doing okay for the most part. They definitely do improve with age. My Crocus Rose has been engulfed in flowers this spring. The Prince does well. My WS2000 is doing better. I am not all that impressed with Fisherman's Friend's growth habit, but the flowers are okay. Most of the others are coming along at their own paces. Some take late, hard freezes better than others. Some don't care for the heat, but neither do I. For me, most are keepers. I have seen beautiful Austins in Woodland Park in Seattle. I don't understand why they would be such a problem especially since they are always beautiful and well represented on the show tables in PNW rose shows.

zyperiris,

We're pretty close--just east of Tacoma a ways. Last I heard, the area was more than 3" below average rainfall for the year. It's been grey, cold and foggy, but the rainfall has been lacking. I think May has been the first month this year where we haven't been alot below average rainfall (although at this rate we're still going to be under). If you check out the NOAA site, they have a pretty good tool to look at precipitation levels. (It's good for the whole country, just not the PNW.)

I have 10 Austins and have had nothing but good luck. Two I gave to Jerome who lives in a hotter area yet. These roses (Graham Thomas and Teasing Georgia) needed space to stretch. He reports they are thriving. I wish I had enough room to grow all the Austins and teas I dream of. I spray once in early spring and feed organics through spring/early summer. Most get a weekly watering except for those at my residence, which are on night time sprinklers (I know, bad).

I am another Midwesterner who loves my Austins.

I have:

Gertrude Jeckyll
The Prince
Mary Rose (zero dieback this last winter which is great in Chicago)
Tamora
Abraham Darby
Radio Times
Jude the Obscure
Crocus Rose

None of them are blooming yet, but they are hundreds and hundreds of buds out there now.

I would choose an Austin over an HT any time for my garden, they just flat out do better (more blooms, better shape, more winter hardy). Most of them do get some BS at the end of the season but I am going to spray this summer and see if I can hold it off.

Lucretia, so we are close. Well, I hope I have better luck than you do! I am suprized we are low on rain. To me it seemed it rained here for months. I guess not

I like a variety of roses and the few Austins I have (6-7?) satisfy my requirements for my zone. Not having seen many of them in other climates, maybe I don't know what to expect but I don't have to contend with the diseases or weather in other climates, either. Almost all roses look beautiful here in spring and fall; look like crappola in summer. My octopi-Austins are restrained in tomato cages and there-in is my biggest problem with some of them... the flopper. Dummy me looked at pics of the flower, not the bush, but the very first Austin I saw was Graham Thomas caged into a wire and wood support at a local garden. That 15ft monster was only supposed to be 8ft tall? Then I saw Winchester Cathedral at a friends garden. One part of the bush consistently had the blooms of Mary Rose. That could be an irritating trait, huh?

I agree with Medusa in Maryland - my DA's outperform my hybrid teas and floribundas, coping with overhanging trees, humidity, heat and lately lots of rain. Yes, they get BS and those long thin canes, but agree you just have to work with them and grow as climbers (or in a tomato cage). For me just the SMELL of them is worth it - besides, I would rather have a floppy bushy blooming bush than some of my lollipop 1-cane wonder hybrid teas - sigh. Surprised Oregon would be a problem at all for DAs. Biggest issue I have is frying flowers, but the others like Oklahoma fry too when it gets really hot.

I love my Austins. They do do well here in the Southeast, if you spray. Right now Jubilee Celebration is the best rose in my yard. Beautiful pink/peach/orange blooms on a short but upright bush. My AD is finally doing well, just planted last year. Also, my own root Graham Thomas from Ashdown is finally putting on a show after being in the ground for 3 years, but we've had drought conditions and I've been stingy with the ferts.

I did have to cut my Teasing Georgia down to the graft. The trellis I had it on broke during a bad wind storm. We thought we were able to prop it up, but it was too far gone. The rose itself looked bad, was very battered by the wind and had a lot of broken canes and leaves ripped off. But I've got two nice new basals coming up.

Whoever said their TG was breaking off at the base, it needs support. It acts more like a rambler than a shrub rose. The first two years it will be ok, then it will just grow and grow and grow.

'Teasing Georgia' in another garden here makes a nice dense shrub in the spring flush with fairly severe annual pruning. It gets whippy later in the season. These shoots need to be cut back or self-pegged downwards after bloom, or when you decide they won't bloom at a reasonable length. At least that is what I'll try when I get it. It has done pretty well here with no spray.

Yet another midwesterner with Austins on the "they did great" list. I have Windermere, Lilac Rose, and Jude the Obscure. The first two were among the hardiest roses through the winter. Jude died back pretty far, and is slow coming back, but he was an itty-baby band when winter set in. I, too, have tons of buds, and cannot WAIT for them to burst forth!

Hey..I was driving by Lake Washington today and I saw a big
english rose. So I stopped and found the tag..Crown Princess Margaretta...She was bloomin her head off

I'm glad I started this thread - learned quite a bit. I think the Austins need the winter cold, & the summer heat, to do well. I was surprised to hear how well they do in the midwest - my old stomping grounds. Right now I have an L.D. Braithwaite tree rose that is dying -- planted it last spring & was pleased with it last summer. This spring it seemed to be coming around o.k. & now I'm ready to just shovel prune it. No more Austins for this gardener.

I grow so many Austins that it would be simpler to list those that I don't grow, than those that I do. My collection just keeps growing because (surprisingly) Austins like it here. Is it the short growing season? The cold? My mountain air? Or maybe they like it that I spend a lot of time out there with them....perhaps they like company? Whatever it is, my Austins are among my happiest (modern) roses. What is intriguing to me is that many of my Austins are hardier than most of my Buck's and definitely hardier than my floribundas. I could list quite a few that come through winter with minimal dieback, which is a very rare miracle here...most modern roses start each spring with only about 5 inches of cane after pruning.
Also, most of them are healthy here and bloom regularly.
I get armloads of blooms and have very little disease issues. But could that be due to the short growing season? Roses don't start blooming in my yard until mid-June and are all done by mid-Sept.....not a very long time to have to be well-behaved...LOL. Maybe Austins like to sleep rather than work? Here they get a very long slumber. So maybe they 'wake up' all refreshed and ready to bloom.

I even grow many of the 'older' Austins and am pleasantly
surprised to find that they do just fine too. Each year I add a couple more, to test my luck. So far, only Bredon and Grace are wimpy and disease-prone...
and I have to keep Grace, because that's my oldest daughter's name. It's planted right next to Tiffany...(my youngest daughter's name)....and the two of them drive me crazy all summer with blackspot.
Very fitting.

Celeste

The information Celeste gives us confirms my thought that the Austins are sort of out of the HP Box -- and they were not designed to do well in my overly-mild climate.

They are lovely roses. I'd not hesitate to recommend them to someone in Celeste's climate -- but I would continue to avoid them here in La La Land.

Jeri

Years ago I visited Heirloom Roses in Oregon and the Austin plants they had growing there, planted in ground, were absolutely stunning!

Here in the semi-desert of Southern California, most Austins grow quite well for me. Sure, there have been some that I just didn't like, but I wish I had space to grow more. I've been growing Austins since the first ones I imported from Canada around 1989. Currently I grow The Squire, Golden Celebration, Falstaff, Leander, William Shakespeare 2000, Perdita, Fair Bianca, Radio Times, Mary Rose, Symphony, Molineux, and Abraham Darby.

Peggy, you didn't say which varieties you grow, but perhaps you might want to try some different varieties that grow to your liking. They all have different growth habits. Some grow like a small floribunda, such as Perdita, Molineux, and Fair Bianca. Others can grow quite tall, such as Leander, Golden Celebration, and Abraham Darby.

By no other name, a rose is a rose, is a rose! For performance etc. Austin roses are just the same as any other rose in my garden, you get the good with the bad - Ooops, but right now, I cannot think of any bad Austins. Although out of all the ones that I love, I have to say, I always classified John Claire (did I get that right) to be the worst Austin rose, but the ONLY one. Most of the others are exceptional, come on you guys, how could you not love most of these roses. On the whole, they are WONDERFUL!!! IMHO
Pauline!

so far, I don't know what to think about Lilac Rose, an impulse buy gone wrong I think... is it a climber in my climate? As for the rest, I guess I will have to do some heavy mulching, as I am not willing to give up the rose that started it all for me, Abraham Darby, and all his new friends... Golden Celebration, WS2000, Lilian Austin, CPM, and I must have Queen of Sweden and apparently Prospero as well. I have no words still to describe AD.
I have seen WS2000 blooming at Huntington in Pasadena, it looked wonderful, but none of the other red austins did. And Tamora planted en masse was a beautiful sight as well. Thank you for the advice about Rose-Tone, I will definitely get some, and also plant in afternoon shade.

I am only in year 2 but so far Happy Child is happy and Scepter'd Isle is covered with blooms. Tamora not so much, but they are growing in pots so not fair to compare.

I am surprised to see so many people in zone 5 or below growing Prospero, The Prince, etc. I thought those crimson/purple varieties did better in zones 7 and up. Maybe I will have to try The Prince after all.

The only Austin I have ever tried to grow is Graham Thomas. I guess I got lucky, because even though our climate is classic "Mediterranean", it grows great here. Completely healthy (I don't ever spray), and blooms all summer in partial shade. The only thing I had to deal with was that I planted it in the middle of a bed which is in the middle of our driveway, thinking that it was a medium sized bush. Of course many of you know what happened next - it started putting out huge long canes - it wanted to be a climber! My husband built it a 8 foot high and 4 foot across metal structure to climb on, and even then it tries to take off from the top of that - I think it has ambitions re the moon. We prune it down to about 4 feet tall every Fall - then it can be grown at about 6-8 feet tall, if you cut off some of the rouge canes it puts out in late summer. We tried pruning it shorter once, but it just made it put out an amazing amount of soft, rampant growth all over, so we gave up that idea.

I never tried another Austin, mostly because I discovered real old roses, and the teas and chinas are more to my taste.

Jackie

I love my Austins. I have Glamis Castle, Bow Bells, L.D. Braithwaite, Abraham Darby, Tradescant, Heritage, Belle Storey, The Herbalist, Sharifa Asma, William Shakespeare 2000, Charlotte, and St. Cecelia. All were planted very deep and all withstand our sometimes brutal winters. I do have to spray to prevent blackspot.

My favorite is Tradescant, a very fragrant deep red. It is outstanding.

My little granddaughter tells me that smelling these roses is as good as candy.

I also grow some OGRs and they are great, too. It is possible to love both.

My advice is not to give up on the Austins. They are well worth a little a little extra work.

I'm another Midwesterner loving my DA's. I basically don't do much winter protection and they ALL come through great with minimal cane loss.

Abe Darby begins each spring at 4' after pruning. Pressently has dozens of blooms.
Gertrude Jekyll (2) is in it's 3rd year and is really strutting her stuff. Loads of beautiful, fat, smelly blooms. Swoon!
Radio Times is new this year.
Harlow Carr (2) is new.
Pretty Jessica (3)is new.
Tamora stays small and is probably the most frail of the whole bunch. This spring she has begun throwing basals and is blooming.
Golden Celebration is a sweetheart and is covered with big, wide, gorgeous blooms. Incredible fragrance.
Jubilee Celebration is in it's 3rd or 4th year and looks fabulous this spring. The blooms are beautiful, big and very fragrant.
Evelyn came through the nasty winter just fine. She has several beautiful blooms and lots of buds. Can't get enough of her blooms.
Spirit of Freedom is a wonderful, hardy rose. She sits against my house receiving southern exposure and has to be hard pruned 3 times during the summer. The blooms are incredible.
Christopher Marlowe is absolutely COVERED in blooms. The kaleidoscope of pink and amber is stunning. I wish I had room for an entire hedge of CM's.
Pat Austin is an adorable rose that has been a reliable bush.
Lady Emma Hamilton is in her 2nd year and she is already growing upright and happy. Very nice blooms this spring.
I think I've left a couple out...brain isn't sharp anymore.

I want to add Happy Child, Lilac Rose, WS2000, and a couple other deep, dark DA reds.

I love Austins, too!!! They are the hardiest of my tender roses. We don't get rose diseases here. Our blooming season is only July, August and a little in September.

I won't grow Brother Cadfael again, (even though it's VERY winter hardy for a tender rose) because most of the blooms don't open. That's the only rose that has ever done that for me.

My favorite Austin is L.D. Braithwaite.

I love Austins!

Carol