If you want a cottage garden look, which I think is a lovely idea for your style of house, I would pick roses that have an old-fashioned feeling to them. Since I live in southern California I have no clue as to what would grow for you. I chose teas, chinas, noisettes and Austin roses, with a few moderns such as Wild Blue Yonder, Burgundy Iceberg, Lavender Simplicity and Julia Child. I know many of those won't work in your zone but the idea is to have soft, billowy bushes with old fashioned looking flowers. Hopefully someone in your zone will have further suggestions. I also think a climber of some kind on the front of the house would complement the architecture and give it a softer, more romantic look.

Good luck. You have a lovely yard and house to work with.

Ingrid

I am TOTALLY with you on the climber! The problem is our zone. (Thanks, BTW, for being brave enough to jump in here and offer an opinion!) Climbers supposedly don't do well, due to the amount of cane dieback each winter. I am reconsidering a William Baffin, though. I was afraid it would look too straggly, but I have seen some really nice photos of it. I have another Zephie to the left (looking at the house) of the doorway, but I don't think she likes it there. Partly she is not buried deeply enough, partly she does not get enough sun. Partly the soil is pretty crappy, but I am trying to get it built up.

Thans for the wishes. I do love the house; even though I had to give up five acres to get it, it was worth the trade. (Long story) It is very difficult to plan for a south-facing yard that still gets so much shade form all the trees. I am seriously wondering how the roses will do down there.

Is Dr. Van Fleet hardy in your zone? I just read this on HelpMeFind regards Dr. Van Fleet.

mlippincott1 writes: We have 'Dr. Van Fleet' in our yard. We have enjoyed this sweet smelling rose for 24 years. This rose blooms every year around our anniversary which is June 6. This year was very special to us since we celebrated our 25th anniversary. The previous owner of our home claims it was planted before 1926. This rose is very hardy. We live in in northeastern Ohio. The winters can be very severe with temperatures dropping below zero. We have had very little problem with pests or disease.

patricia, I think I read somewhere that is was even cane-hardy here. But I have a hard time overcoming the fact that it is a once-bloomer. I have a hard time imagining that the un-blooming will best serve the space, for the effort of a climber. Maybe I am too tunnel-visioned.

I have a bodybag New Dawn, but am pretty sure it will suffer over the winter. Maybe I will try it and see anyway?

Greenhaven - in this month's issue of Garden Gate, they have drawings of before and after landscaping sketches with ideas of how to draw the eye to the corners of the house using trees and plants. They have some really great ideas. If you can't find a copy at your bookstore, send me an email with your address and I'll send you my copy. Their designers took a "blah" plain house with no curb appeal and did one of their simple crayola drawings and turned it into eye candy. They made it look easy too without spending a lot of money in the process, and showed simple step-by-step instructions and what plants to buy and where to place.
-terry

terryjean, sounds great! I will look for it, and email you if need be.

Do you grow any cane hardy climbers?

It is so exciting to have a blank canvas! In the somewhat limited observations I have made in your area, it is bitter cold in the vinter and very hot in the summers (especially mid-july to early september it can be very hot).
I have found some books very helpful: Flower gardening in the Hot Midwest by Linda Hillegras (Usda zone 5 and lower zone 4). Gardening In Iowa, Veronica Lorson Fowles and Trees, Shrubs and roses for Midwest Gardens, Ezra Haggard.

I would be careful about adding too many yellow roses in front of the house. Because yellow roses IMO clash with the red brick house. If you want to use Yellow roses, separate them from other roses with abricot or white roses.

The word "cottage garden is so over-used and misunderstood. For many it has come to mean using a mix of shrubs, -semi - annuals, annuals and perennials. It takes skill and experience, and it will never get as lush as English, Dutch, or French cottage-gardens in your area. Few people have the time to maintain such a garden, and in your climate many of the plants associated with cottage garden plantings are high-maintainance. In Ingrids area the mediterranian cottage garden style is great. In your area I would be more bold and adapt a prairie-style mixed border garden scheme. Mixing Roses, Irises, daylillies, hardy geraniums, hostas, spring and summerflowering bulbs, annuals and semiannuals and some shrubs and ornamental grasses. Choose a colour scheme! Try not make the colours clash too much - mixing hot colours and cold colours looks confusing IMO. Visualize what you want and how your garden is going to look in 2 years, 5 years and 10 years from now. I would also use some structures and low hedges/fences to create "rooms and vignettes", To divide the garden into diffent areas, and separate various colour schemes. Right now your garden is fairly open and everything can be seen at once. Here in Europe we prefer to shield our gardens and create privacy and show off other part of our gardens. Think carefully about how your garden look both from the street, and from the inside of your house through your vindows and from benches and patios.

Hegdes, fences and trees, driveways, pavements and the brick walls create different microclimates that might make it possible to push your hardiness zone by one to 5-6. This means a lot for the choice of roses!

John Davis, John Cabot (New Dawn (Against walls/soutfacing fences)and Baltimore Belle are climbers that should be possible to grow in your area.

And How could I forget Constance Spry? It should be hardy enough to grow against a wall, perhaps together with one of the other mentioned, since it only blooms for 3 weeks. A combination of New Dawn and Constance Spry growing together looks stunning!

I immediately saw lots of tulips! I know, it's May, but that's what I saw there. I don't plant roses anywhere near my driveway anymore. I always get "attacked" by them.

Oh, Sarah, hubby's favorite flower is a tulip, so I am appeasing him by planning for them this Fall. It's really important to me to have multi-season interest in the front of the house, and spring bulbs seem to be just the ticket.

cupshapedroses, thanks for all the great tips! Interesting how European gardens tend to be more private than public. I think it will that way for me when I start in the back of the house. Not only are all the yards essentially open to each other, our line of homes is raised quite a bit above the houses behind us, so when we sit out on the deck we "oversee" all the neighbors behind us. I would love to make it more like a sanctuary without installing a big, ugly fence and completely closing out the neighbors. (But NEXT year! Stay focused, Green!)

Okay, so this is what I was thinking: (for HOURS last night, of course!) I was actually thinking about trying to exploit that microclimate against the front of the house for a climbing/rambling rose. I have a bodybag New Dawn that is doing REALLY well so far, and a brand new Darlow's Enigma band. I am not thrilled about white in the front, though. I am also really wrestling with the fully hardy climbers because so few seem to get tall enough. Putting something that climbs short would emphasize the height of the peaks of the house, and that would be wrong, I think. Any chance cl. Cecile brunner would thrive against a souther-facing brick wall?

So If I try New Dawn in the front, would you place her on the SE corner (in front of the ugly gas pipes) or in the corner to the east of the doorway to train around the big window and above the door? I am thinking at the corner, if ND will really gain enough height here.

I have a John Cabot climber, and I think you'd like it. It's probably 8 feet tall and it's three years old this spring. It blooms mostly in the spring but it does have some blooms in the fall too. My only problem with it is that it is actually bigger than I thought it would be and I think I'm going to have to do some major pruning to stop it from taking over the two trellises that I'm putting next to it which are supposed to be for other roses.

I won't make any landscaping suggestions. I'm still learning what works myself and it has a tendency to involve moving a lot of plants around.

My cane-hardy climbers are Brite Eyes and Aloha. I use the term "climbers" loosely because they are more like vertical pillar roses. They are pretty much self-supporting and have strong canes. I have had Aloha for about 8 years and rarely have to prune any dead wood due to winter dieback. She is about 6.5 feet right now and maybe 4 feet in circumference and full of buds. No BS either; very healthy. Clear pink blossoms cover the bush all summer way into October. Best part...no winter protection required!

Brite Eyes is fairly new; just starting 3 year. Don't have to use a trellis either and I don't winter protect. Didn't have any dieback to speak of either. I posted a pic on a thread about Brite Eyes showing its vertical habit; you might want to check it out. It's on Page 1.

Both would be nice vertical interest for the corner of your house.

I just planted two Autumn Sunsets this spring, but I can't speak as to hardiness or habit yet. Am anxious to see how they perform in our Zone.

First question is, are you OK with your landscaping disappearing for six months of the year? If you are, that's fine. Otherwise, you should start planning for winter interest. The beds against the house are large enough for background evergreens and the current prairie plants in front of those, but not by much.

Quote: "First question is, are you OK with your landscaping disappearing for six months of the year? If you are, that's fine. Otherwise, you should start planning for winter interest."

Exactly! I am definitely looking for four-season interest, although not necessarily from each and every plant. It was very hard not to be impatient for things to start coming up this Spring. I am certainly feeling the lack of a "backbone" in this bed in particular.

I looked up terryjean's Brite Eyes and Aloha, and I think one of those might be perfect in that corner near the door, since they are more pillar-y than climb-y I also think I have pretty much decided to try the New Dawn at the southeast corner. I have virtually nothing to lose, since I paid hardly anything for the rose. If it doesn't work, I go with something known hardier.

Then, if I have some tall plants on the ends, I could fill in wthe center with a couple shrub roses, interplant between and behind with taller natives, and the front with shorter natives? How am I doing? Any tips or cautins before I start getting excited?

What sort of evergreen should I consider, maybe, instead of shrub roses in the center back?? Something soft, native or native-y, not your typical yews and junipers.

Unless you are looking specifically at a rose with winter interest, like Therese Bugnet, shrub roses are exactly the sort of thing that disappear during the winter, as do most of the native perennials. Unfortunately, the red caned roses will probably disappear against the brick. Grasses might work.

Basically, the yews and junipers are typical for a reason. They are reliable, hardy evergreens that look good all year.

Greenhaven, Before you buy that New Dawn, be sure to check out the Awakening, which many believe to be an improvement on New Dawn, as it supposedly blooms/reblooms more than N.D. I have one growing up my chimney, and this thing is a beast. Absolutely no cane dieback during our winters, which is the ONLY rose in my yard that suffers ZERO dieback year after year. I offer it no protection whatsoever and each year, it grows like you wouldn't believe. This will only be it's third summer in the current spot, planted as a tiny own-root band, and now it is already over 10 feet tall, and very, very full.

Hmmm...Matt, you make me excited about Awakening! I already have New Dawn that I bought as a bodybag this year. But I may have to just change my mind and buy a quality climber or two.

I was looking at roseperson's article for the Arizona Rose Society, and she grows drop-dead GORGEOUS climbers (including both New Dawn and Awakening) and clematis in her zone five. Furthermore, she has a gorgeous Dortmund, one of the few pictures of Dortmund I like.

I think I am going to try a larger climber (my New Dawn or maybe Awakening) right at the SE corner, so I can train canes along both the south and east sides and hopefully around the windows, too. I think I should be braver and try it, at least with ONE and see how it does.

A pillar-y rose for the corner near the stoop (Aloha floats my boat!) and....??? between the two, for my "back-of-the-bed"

I'm excited to see that you've received so much wonderful advice, Greenhaven. When I mentioned a cottage garden I was thinking of my version of it, which includes much more than roses and other flowers. For instance, against a bare all of the house I planted four junipers, with each pair having a lavender crape myrtle between it. There's also a privacy fence that's a hedge of closely planted junipers. They do as well in the heat as they do in the cold. If I lived in your zone I would design the area a a "winter" garden first, i.e. plant it so that it looks beautiful for that long time of the year when many things are dormant. As mentioned above, the typical yews and junipers might just be the best way to go. When those things are in place, you can design around them with softer elements for spring and summer interest. I think evergreens would form a very pleasing backdrop given the color of your house. Different bulbs that would give interest for several months in the spring would be lovely, and I wouldn't grow only tulips. Irises and daffodils grown in groups would look beautiful against a backdrop of evergreens. The suggestion of Awakening instead of New Dawn is a good one. A climber will be there for a long time and this rose has a much more old-fashioned look to it, in my opinion, although I understand it does have vicious thorns. It will be fun to see what you decide to do and I hope you post pictures of the process and the final result.

Ingrid

Ingrid, I wouldn't even know where to begin with evergreens that would provide a nice backdrop while still leaving room for the other stuff. I am not strictly native, obviously, but would like something at least expected in this area.

I know you are in SoCal, but any good suggestions? The bed is about 16 feet wide and eight feet deep. Seven-and-a-half, technically.

Is boxwood hardy in your area? That could be kept trimmed to a narrow shape while allowing it to grow taller. Also there are columnar junipers that grow fairly tall without being too wide. One idea would be to drive around your neighborhood and see what grows well that you like. I wonder if you could grow at least one type of plant on both sides of the house to tie the whole scheme together. I'm at a bit of a loss here, being so far outside your zone.

Ingrid

yeah, I kinda figured you would be, but you never know! Ya might have been a transplant, or extensively educated in multi-zone landscaping.

People do sell boxwood around here. It's a thought...I don't like having to keep somthing trimmed and shaped all the time.

There are a lot of things I like, but high maintenance, and the stuff I do like only looks good when it is the main theme of the landscaping rather than the perennials I like. I'll keep thinking about it. I have an 'Aronia brilliantissima' planted at the west corner of the house. While not an evergreen, it could work as a unifying element in the right places.

Here's another thought. (Oh, and by the way, boxwoods don't need that much pruning.) Anyway, have you considered posting your problem on the landscaping forum with your pictures included? Many of the posters there are professionals and just might have some answers for you. It wouldn't hurt to try.

Ingrid

You're right, of course, ingrid, I have nothing to lose. I guess I sarted here because this board is so active and people seem to know their roses and companions!

I'll give it a go. My biggest obstacle will be remembering to go there and check for answers. :o)