I was talking to a guy that owned a small engine shop. I asked him what was the best small engine out there. Without hesitation he said Honda...no question about it. He said he might see one or two a summer and a few hundred of the other brands. I have an 8 hp Honda on my log splitter. It is by far the finest small engine I have ever used. Expensive yes...but smooth and dependable.

Dave mn
You quoted a shop owner to say: "Without hesitation he said Honda...no question about it. He said he might see one or two a summer and a few hundred of the other brands." Along with this data which I'll accept, there are likely at least a 100:1 ration of B&S vs Honda small engines out there. So even if they had the same MFBF, he get the results quoted.

I'm not saying the engines are equivalent, I'd bet the Honda is a better engine. Now if B&S made a Vanguard equivalent in the 5 HP size, I'd bet it would give the Honda a run for the money, and would cost as much.

If you plan to start and listen to it run, 175 times go with the honda. you won't regreat it.

Well Jerry with all due respect. I doubt its 100:1 ratio. But you do make a good point. There are lots of Honda motors around here. I see them all over. This guy sees engines all day long. And my limmited experience with the one I have has convinced me that they are superior. But like anything else...you get what u pay for. Mine has an internal counter balance which makes it so smooth. Like all Honda equipment (cars, bikes), I bet the tolerances inside the motor are superior to almost anything else. Just my 2 cents.

Jerry, Go by any tool rental place or construction site, count the hondas vs all other brands, please report your findings.

Jammer, I"m going to guess you've had a bad experance with honda?

"parts are cheaper,and more readily obtainable"

Cheaper? most times

more readily obtainable? unless you live in a place with a population of 10 and no internet connection you're wrong.

john c
You may have a point and you may not. If one goes to a Honda factory repair station how many Honda verses B&S do you see there. I don't know what type shop it was that brought this aspect of the engine game up, but I bet it was a neighborhood shop that does mostly homeowner type repairs, e.g. B&S, Kohler, and the Techum.. (sp?)

The fact remains, if one has a homeowner use for a tool they don't need to pay the price of Honda, unless they want to keep the tool for 25 years (most likely with some repairs). I like buying a new tool every quarter century or so. And there is a lot more to a tool than its engine, all the metal that does the cutting and protecting under that engine wears out too.

Jerry, I was saying the true ratio may not be as lopsided .

At this guys place it may be, as you said more lower priced homeowner equipment for him to base that statement on.

I will concide your point on "homeowner" use.
You are also correct in your statement that a homeowner does not "need" to pay the extra, however some may "want" to be it for 25 years or 25 minutes. And I also wanted to throw some cold water on Jammer, he's slammed honda every time it comes up,I lost count looking through the posts this morning.

Just for the record...this place I referred to was an autherized Honda repair shop. Lets not squabble. I still say you get what u pay for.

Honda is a great product, car, tractor, boat... and so are a lot of other manufacturers. Saying "you get what you pay for" isn't a excuse for not looking for value: "the most you can get for what you pay".

Honda makes a good strong quality engine. My problem with Honda is that the parts costs are astronomical and in many cases you can not purchase the single part that breaks, you have to purchase a major subassembly of parts that in many cases costs more than a complete Briggs shortblock.

I'll stick with my Briggs and Tecumseh engines.

Geez Jerry relax man. Buy whatever you want. I coudnt care less. I prefer to spend more and not have to do it again for awhile. Now thats good value.
Interesting discussion but I wont comment anymore. Besides I think we are in agreement in some weird way.

I'm not going to argue whether or not paying the extra $$ for Honda power is "worth it" for the typical homeowner, but saying they're "harder to work on", or "parts are hard to obtain", or "individual parts often can't be purchased requiring that you purchase larger sub-assemblies", isn't accurate.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Has anyone seen any Chinese knockoff Briggs or Tecumseh products flooding the marketplace? I haven't.

There's nothing wrong with Briggs or Tecumseh stuff.....don't get me wrong. But saying that they're "just as good" as a Honda really makes me wonder how much experience those that say they are just as good really have with them.

We switched to Honda power on our rental equipment starting about 15 years ago. I've been there for 18+ years now, and have plenty of experience with Briggs, Tecumseh, Kohler, Wisconsin, etc. on the same types of equipment, used in the same environments. There's really no comparison.....and that's not just my opinion, customers say it too. Ease of use, reliability, economy, noise levels, etc. all have combined to make Honda the engine of choice. It's not like we wanted to shell out the extra dollars to switch.....customers demanded it. We work on customers' equipment in addition to doing our own repairs, and nearly every time we get a piece of equipment in, the customer comments on how he wishes he'd spent the extra money for a Honda engine if he has something else.

The extra money we spent up front has been a wash. More satisfaction from the customers, less repairs, higher resale when we turn the equipment over, etc. all add up to making it a no-brainer.

But like I said earlier, only the buyer can decide whether it's "worth it" him or her.....

Now you got it, I agree that a rental or other "commercial" application that has to pay "union" rates for repair and handling can drive value out the purchase of equipment with longer life bearings and the like, but not the homeowner. Rental outfits should see several hundred hours of use a year on a piece of equipment, and renters are known for their lack of concern for equipment. Most homeonwners see less than 50 hours use per year on yard equipment, far less in many cases.

The equipment I've run to it end over many years of use (and that's the fate of all my purchases, including cars) were suffering from rust, not engine failure. My current heavy duty garden tractor has at least 1000 hours and 12 years on it and the engine is fine, low oil consumption, and I'll not name the make, just say it isn't a Honda.

well I've worked on honda genarators,lawnmowers,pressurewashers and I know from a metalurgy background,they're not as great as some people would believe...........materialwise,the extra money spent on their products,goes to research and develpment with a cheaper material,wich I don't like...............when I spend more money,I want better materials....and less flash

Broke-not: I'm not poking holes in your jacket,but what you say can't be acurate;you say there's no comparison,between honda and briggs,it's not just you're opinion,because the customers say it too.Well how can the customers say that,if they're renting in the first place?They don't own equiptment,so they can't really make that judgement...............Also saying that people that can't or don't know how to do repairs,like to spend more money on brand "X" engines doesn't say anything either

The customers that say they overwhelmingly prefer Honda power on the equipment DO have experience with the other brands. They HAVE used the other engines, and that's WHY they say they have a preference. If they didn't have experience with the other stuff, why in the world would they prefer one brand over another? Because it's a pretty color? Don't think so.

Saying that customers don't know what they're talking about because they're renting the equipment is ridiculous. Here's a very typical rental scenario......a contractor bids several jobs during the building season. He's awarded several of those contracts, and finds out that due to scheduling conflicts, weather, etc., he has to rent equipment to fill in the gaps between what he actually needs to complete those multiple jobs, versus what it's practical for him to own. For instance he may NEED ten generators this week, but he only owns half that many. He may NEED four power trowels for a big concrete pour, but he only owns two. He picks up the slack via renting. One of the other big reasons for contractors to rent stuff, is not having to drag all of the items they need to do jobs with them all over the country. They rent gensets, compressors, light towers, mortar mixers, etc. when they get to the locale they'll be working in.

When we're talking about homeowners renting, it's a different situation. All they need to do is rent something once with a Honda and they're hooked. Ease of use and quietness keep them coming back and asking for Honda-powered stuff. The ladies especially love them. They used to send the hubby in to pick up a mower or lawn edger, but after starting and using a Honda engine, they have the confidence to tackle projects on their own.

It ain't exactly rocket science......people like what they like for a reason. And I really doubt that they're ALL wrong.

Why in the world do you suppose that after all these years Briggs, Tecumseh, and Kohler got on board and started producing small OHV engines? And what do you mean by saying that you know from a metallurgy background that they're not as great as some people would believe? Is there some flaw that's a big secret? Some weakness that nobody else is aware of that will result in a failure? Please explain in detail.....

Like I said, I'm not anti-Briggs, Tecumseh, or Kohler. My GT has a Kohler, my snowblower has a Tecumseh, and my 3500 watt generator has a Briggs. They work just fine for me.....but that doesn't fog my glasses or cloud my thinking enough to make me believe that they're "just as good" just because they work.

Much the same here in the UK, for Pressure washers and a lot of garden machinery now - Honda.

B&S and so many otjers have rested on their laurels quite long enough, and just as with motorcycles, missed the boat - or really, failed to hear the market shouting - I WANT:-

Good looking, clean, no oil leaks, a dipstick that's had as much attention paid to it's design and fit as the conrod
Quiet as possible!
100% reliable starting with low effort.. wet, cold, whatever
Economy - it's 2005 for %^$£ sake!
Better - power to weight ratio

.. and maybe it costs a bit more - wometimes more than it should, as the purveyors play up the differences and charge for them - bte they don't cost $175 more to the manufacturer!

There's another factor powerplant integration and load matching - not saying non Japanese don't understand engineering - but their directors, managers and smart &^%$ salesmen don't!

Take Kubota - a byword for reliable diesel utility engines over here - buy £12,000 worth of chipper with anything else a few years ago - and you were risking downtime - why?

Because Kubota built their reputation on insisting that 'they' get to approve , the 'whole' installation, thoroughly, to be fully integrated and tested as a whole - whereas we (and you) and others would just 'ship engines' liek the boss says, regardless of the long term consequences to reputation - the pinstripes and whistle and fluted up at the top of these old traditional companies with secure market sectors never saw the Japanese coming with their honest to goodness 'engineering ethics, prode in quality and fundamentally different approach'.

We're all trying to junp on that bandwagon now - but half-heartedly and often too late. So down comes the price again and soon something has to give ... probably that crap dipstick that keeps jumping out the damn hole!

But believe it or not Mr CEO bigwig pinstripe today, rags tomorrow - that 5 cent dipstick just lost you 10 sales in ten years time, multiplied by however many times it's jumped outa that slightly wrong sized hole - fact!

Broke-Not let me ask you why would you say Honda is spending money on R&D to cut cost? As a outsider the most you would know is that it's R%D nothing more..
I find the Honda to be heavy and big, which is sujective...
Also many people running small engines buy the el cheep o's B%S with the idea it's cost effective to jsut pitch them and get a new one, disney world mechanic told me thats what they did...he gave me 3 engines all with a rod through the side. appeared to have run low on oil ? just a low oil engine shut-off would have prevented that...all the engines looked to have been less than 6 months old

It makes me laugh when I hear easier starting,quiet,smooth.......... And then I hear better tolerances! Before I prove to you guy's that briggs is just as good as honda,you guy's are going to have to prove that honda's are more precise than most other's........that's real funny,because honda has tolerance's of thousandth's of an inch just like everybody else does........A more precise engine would have tolerance's in millionth's of an inch,wich I doubt exist,as far as air-cooled engines..........

Well I'm back to join Jammer1.

I don't work with equipment as a way of earning a living, thus I don't have any vested interest in which is best (I remain suspicious of the zealots for Honda, John Deere and yes even the tractors sold at Home depot). I am an electrical engineer and long time do-it-yourself guy with a large property and lots of power equipment from garden tractor to spade and pick. I've run all my equipment for many years, the tractor is now 12 years old and has at least 1000 hours on it. I also have a neighbor with a Honda hand mower and a Simplicity tractor. The best engine in these two pieces of equipment is the one in the Simplicity (I know because she calls me when she has problems, I've had to send her Honda to the shop at least once). The engine in the Simplicity? A B&S Vanguard. This is the top of the line B&S, but a B&S non the less. As for my equipment, most of my power equipment is Sears, and that's either B&S or Kohler. Yes Sears did offer a lawn and a yard (lighter duty than a garden tractor) with a Honda engine. Neither had any appeal to me as configured and they cost more than bigger more versatile machines with more power for the same or less money. I do not have problems with the engines, and they all have easy to reach and read dip sticks, not that that's a big plus.

What's my point, if Honda is better, great but the homeowner doesn't need to pay that price. If you're in the rental business and have a better return on your investment using Honda equipment, great, but don't put it up as the model for all. Further, if you're selling Honda, get off this forum, this is for the exchange of information, not for increasing your sales.

As for knowledgeable renters, I hope you contractors are and I'm sure some of them are not. Homeowners who come in to rent a piece of equipment and act like they have a lot of knowledge about the equipment, I say they're blowing smoke, trying to impress the rental agent and hope he'll not try to overcharge them.

giventake,

What do you mean by this?

"Broke-Not let me ask you why would you say Honda is spending money on R&D to cut cost?"

Jammer1, the customers do say they're easier starting, quieter, and more economical. What's funny about that? Also, I'm still awaiting the "metalurgy" evidence you mentioned earlier. YOU think it's funny when others post opinions that you feel are unsubstantiated. I don't see you providing any evidence for the opinions you have though. What gives?

Jerry NJ, I'm not tryng to sell anyone on using Honda power for normal homeowner type use. I said several times that the only person that can decide whether it's worth it to them, is the end user himself. The ONLY reason I posted any of the things I did was in response to this quote in Jammer1's original reply:

"The only reason OEM's offer hondas on their Equiptment is to Hype them up."

Not only does that not make sense.....it's downright dumb if you think about it. Do OEM's want happy customers or not? If they install an "upgrade" engine and advertise it as a feature, but then it turns out to be all hype, does anyone think it'll win them any repeat business? Do the OEM's think that they'll get any additional business via the wotd-of-mouth commentary from those who've purchased their wares? They charged more for it.....but it turns out to be no better. It's just hype, and the buyer fell for it.

"We got this ONE sale.....we don't care if he ever does business with us again."

I'd like to have attended the meeting they held to arrive at that smart business decision......

The metallurgy point is the japaneese use cheaper material,and case harden them to make them effective(Steel),Or they use the cheapest material alltogether and research and develop that,such as aluminum,and recently,Plastic,not even a metal........wich is the worst !Why spend extra money for cheaper material? I can't justify spending more for cheaper material..............

Jammer, your not a metallurgist, obvioulsy, nor a materials engineer, we can tell that.

Aircraft use aluminium and much plastic, what is wrong with that? It's not the material, but the situation it's used in, the degree of detail design, sepcification and testing that has gone into it that matters.

"because honda has tolerance's of thousandth's of an inch just like everybody else does........"

I don't think you understand the difference between clearances and production tolerances.... !

And anyway, nobody above is saying that B&S, tecumseh or kohlers aren't good engines, or have incorrect clerances or blatantly grim production tolerances, just that they are built and manufactured with a different philosophy.... the point I was trying to make above, using dipsticks and Kubotas purely as examples, one which you've neatly ignored or sidestepped.

You can fool some of the people some of the time but not all the people all the time... but don't kid us that modern B&S and home market products would be anything like as good as they are today, if competition in the form of better engineered and specified machinery, designed with the user in mind for once - had not come along.

The US and Canadians 'can' make excellent kit, so can the UK, and Europe, but don't kid yourself that we were all striving as hard a the Japanese to make them even better when the money was rolling in these last 50 years or so - there were some real shockers being sold out there, and the customer was rarely being listened to - they are now!

Hi All,

Just caught up with this thread! A friend of mine has had a commercial side eject Honda mower for 12 years now. It still starts first time with one easy pull, even after the winter layoff.

This impressed me and, as I'm thinking about a new walk behind mower, included honda engined models in my research. I've just been told by an honest dealer that many cheaper Honda engines are now rated at only 200 hours use! The dealer added that these models are made in Belgium and not Japan as formerly.

I must add that I'm in England and our requirements when mowing are different to yours. However, the overall impression I'm getting is that Honda mowers, whether durable or not, are quite often not good when it comes to the actual cutting and bagging of the grass.

Opps !! Sorry Broke_Not my bad, seems someomne else gave you credit for infering that in one of your post. I'll go to my room, i have fixed all the wrongs and ails of the internet for today anyway :)

I think that Honda makes a fine engine. But haven't people noticed that the quality manufacturing that the Japanese were known for has been slipping over the past few years? The global playing field seems much more level these days and I would think that this would trickle over into mechanical design also. Most processes in manufacturing are highly automated, so it's robotics vs. robotics. Does Honda still manufacture all their engines in Japan? Or are some manufactured here in the USA? As for the high tech materials used in manufacuring, I have no problem with them as long as they are designed and tested properly. I still like the old cast iron engines the best though. Although tempermental, they certainly are the standard for durablity. "NO ONE" builds them like they used to. I'm not knocking Honda, I just think that they have relaxed some of their standards to stay competitive. The Japanese aren't exactly on top anymore after all.

Almost anyone in the world can build fantastic i.c. engines today - there are few secrets until you get to the Formula One pace of development (3 litre engines now doing 18,000 rpm).
Even with NC and CAD production processes, if you don't have the right embedded company ethic, production and quality control staff skills etc. it's still possible to turn out rubbish without realising it.
A Chinese rip-off copy of a Honda, say, should run and run well - but one overlooked bad tolerance, one batch of untested or mal-treated parts (poor heat treatment proceesing and base stock quality control is a classic short cut) - and it might let you down prematurely, be less efficient or more polluting. Two plastic parts can look identical, but they won't be, even coming out of the very same mould tool - you get out what you put in - a penny more or a penny less.

So it isn't who knows how to make a better product, it's who puts all the right processes in place, and ensures they are monitored, and although it starts from the top, is implemented by management, it's often down to the man with his hands on the job to ensure it doesn't all fall apart just before it all comes together - train, pay and enthuse those well, and all your investment will pay dividends. Pay peanuts, employ monkeys and you're gambling, however much you've invested in design, materials and whizz-bang modern production technology - although the bulk of the Chinese mass-producers don't even do that - YET!

"NO ONE" builds them like they used to - Mmmm - maybe the missus is thankful of that, when she's down a steep slope with that mower whilst you're at work earning the beans. And modern chain-saws, strimmers etc. couldn't be built like they used to - you wouldn't even be able to pick them up :-)

I don't have to be a metalurgist,or a materials engineer to know that plastic isn't as good as metal,in most cases!(probably around 90%) Why doesn't Honda offer a stainless steel deck,instead of plastic,then the asking price might be justifiable.Why research and develop a cheap material(plastic)instead of ways to draw out a stainless steel?..................I see at least you admit to the cheaper material being used...a"classic shortcut"..................Which is what I've been saying all along : Why pay more for less Quality................Ok,that's it let's move on to the next subject,this one's getting too drawn-out

'Why doesn't Honda offer a stainless steel deck,instead of plastic,then the asking price might be justifiable.'

NVH suppression (Vibration absorption in others words)?

a) Do you know how much it costs to design and tool for a stainless steel one?
b) Do you know how much it costs to design and tool a good plastic one?

Plastics and synthetic composites have altered this world we live in - we can't deny that. Try living without them, in fact, try typing a response to this without them...

I have an original IBM AT metal keyboard, weighs 10 lbs - a work of art in a way. I look at it now and again, pick it up and handle it too... but I don't use it.

I am typing this on a £30 COMPAQ plastic* keyboard - another work of art - in another way, another time.
A similar plastic keyboard can be had for about £5 here, maybe less - but it's only similar, it won't feel as good, look as good, and type as well, and definitely wouldn't still be under my fingers 10 years after I bought one.

Industrial design - a blend of art, engineering and science?

I rest my case too...

*It's got steel in it - where it's needed!

Just for the heck of it; I'll bet the initial cost is practically the same for both,only they're bound to have more problems forming stainless in the dies,compared to injection molding plastic................and I'm sure the machine to draw out stainless cost more than a injection molder.................why not go all the way,and do lost wax casting Do you know what inconel is?,How about waspaloy?..........

Stainless sheet in almost any spec. is readily available from rolling mills as std. stock. If flat, stamping it out or laser cutting it a breeze with negligible design or tooling costs... if pressed/formed, the tool would cost a fair bit, but this is no different than banging out car panels and tight tolerances not important.
But stainless is never the material for an engine plate in a piece of utility machinery, if metal was chosen it would be plonk steel sheet, painted or powder coated.
It would drum unless ridiculously thick or going to a complex damped fabricated sandwich style construction.

The thing about choosing plastic, is it requires very expensive tooling and a lot more in the way of design - detail structural design and material choice, testing and proving. But the end result of a good design, would be adequate stiffness, superb NVH suppression, very long life (if UV tolerant material chosen) without degradation of appearance).

Inconel is verging on a Nimonic, and coming from the aircraft industry I can tell you it wouldn't normally be found anywhere near a utility lawn mower, although similar to exhaust valve material. Cost alone would preclude it, but I can't imagine why it would be necessary.

Waspaloy? Nope. But trade names/common names vary worldwide.

Lost wax is very expensive and slow, mainly for items such as turbine blades that require extremely fine tolerances and complex shapes - nobody in their right mind would consider lost wax in this context.

Jabroc/lfs/tufnol or marine ply might be a good choice for an engine bed, minimal inveatment in tooling and ideal for a low production run, but not for mass production and expensive in the long run.

I would go with stamped stainless,and install strategic rubber strips or pads at key locations,to dampen vibration,and why not rubber mount the engine to the deck?motorcycles have been like that for years........cars too..........outboard motors...chainsaws......thats what I would research,and develop...............

Why stainless ? It has no advantages over powder coated carbon steel and costs a lot more.

Metalastic rubber engine mountings would raise cost too, and weight...

so would stratageic rubber strips, not that I can see what they would do, other than get in the way of everything, delaminiate, perish and put up the weight, parts count and cost!

A fully integrated solution is the answer, engineered carefully - that is, not just a guess and a stab in the dark.

Well...depending on wich grade of stainless would be used,it would be a lifetime deck,extremely low maintainance,the most durable, and an extra option would be to polish it like chrome!!(for those that want to brag) Rubber motor mounts,would not add to the cost;not enough to mention,anyway.........and the added weight would be negligable,.................I only mentioned rubber strips,or pads to dampen harmonic vibrations,or "NVH suppresion "...................they're really not needed...............and I don't care how tough a powder coat you put on mild steel,at some time the coating will break down,and allow the material to rust(inside the deck,where it needs it the most,or near the point where the handle attaches,etc.)..........................cost is the only thing against stainless...............I haven't checked it out...................But the dies exist for steel right now,with slight modifications to the dies,stainless could be produced...................and then,you'll be getting your money's worth....(as long as they don't charge more than the added cost of the stainless,and reasonable research,and development time)................................No guessing,or Fooling around!!

This has to be the strangest thread of posts I have ever seen. We went from comparing engines to designing a chrome polished stainless deck.

hee, hee, I won't apologise, as is it's not my design, but I'll put my hand up - guilty, your honour, if someone has to take the rap. I do have that effect sometimes... oops!

Personally I still think 1/2" marine ply would be a good DIY engine bed...

Checkerplate anyone? Yuck!

It all comes down to the fact that reality is perception. I like Honda's (mower, generator, and snowblower) because I have owned them and they all started when I wanted them to. I also owned (not any longer) several pieces of equipment with Briggs and Tecumseh engines (mower, snowblower, tiller) and they would not start for me when I needed them to (except when relatively new).

I have no allegiance to Honda, they just work for me. You buy what you want and be happy that you have the opportunity to buy what you want.

I think you nailed it, BSparks. I understand that there are all these millions of Briggs and Tecumseh engines out there providing faithful service, and how they should outlast the machines they power and all that. But my last two Briggs Quantum engines were big disappointments -- hard starting, oil burning, and short lived. A recent rental machine was equally hard starting and oil burning. Even if my current Honda engine doesn't last any longer than the Quantums, just the fact that I don't have to add oil every time I use it means I would choose Honda again.

My statistical sample is so small that it's almost meaningless, but it's what I have to work with. Your mileage may vary. I'd pay extra for Honda every time.

Honda? Yupporamma! Have you ever installed an hour meter on each and had either fail at less than 1000 hours?
Honda carbs. The defense rests.

I live on the Gulf Coast and seem to use my generators alot. I have both motors the Brags is on a 7500 kw and the Honda is on my 9500kw the Honda will run about 15 hours on 7 gal. of fuel but the Brags only gets me about 8-9 hours on 10 gal. The Honda is by for the quieter of the two and runs a lot cooler. I always run the fuel out of them so I donÂt have problems with ether. Spend the money it is well worth it.

Of course it'll run a lot cooler,and use less fuel,it has an extra 2Kw to spare,so it's not working as hard.............how can you make a comparison like that?

I have a 8hp tecumseh on my snowblower, 10hp Briggs intek on my chipper, 18hp Briggs Vangauard on my generator, a 25hp Kohler Command on my tractor and a honda 5hp lawnmower. All start easy and run great. None of them burn oil. The honda is the quietiest but also has a biggest muffler compared to the others. I will say that I'm disappointed in the honda mower. The underside of my deck is completely rust. I also had to replace the cable to engage the tranny, but had to buy the whole assembly as a kit to get the cable. My deck clogs easily whether I use mulching blades or regular blades and the cut isn't that great. The engine my be great, but the rest of the mower is not worth the 400 paid for it.

With proper car, air filter changes, oil changes, new spark plugs, and good gas, any engine will last a long time. I know a lot of people that just put gas in and go. Then the engine breaks and the equipment is the biggest piece of junk. For the average homeowner, I don't think the engine should be of a concern. I think the unit its mounted too should be of more importance.

Posted by jammer1 mass (My Page) on Thu, Feb 22, 07 at 1:56

Of course it'll run a lot cooler,and use less fuel,it has an extra 2Kw to spare,so it's not working as hard.............how can you make a comparison like that?
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Very easy. Both engines must spin the alternator at a certain rpm in order to produce the voltage needed. Therefore, they are on an even playing field in that regard. 3650 RPM is 3650 RPM regardless of who makes the motor.

The second issue is load and that is measured in amps. No matter which engine is being used, a thirty-amp draw is a thirty-amp draw. The fact that the Honda is capable of putting out more amperage than the Briggs doesn't matter. The torque needed should be the same. Work produces heat and noise. Honda has found ways to keep both at a lower level while consuming less fuel. Isn't that what good engine design should be all about?

"Of course it'll run a lot cooler,and use less fuel,it has an extra 2Kw to spare,so it's not working as hard.............how can you make a comparison like that?"

So with that logic, get a generator with enough mega-watt capacity and it should start making fuel (and maybe make ice cubes on the side):-)

Jammer: I really think you are uneducated on some of these issues. I dont have time to get into everything but let them design a mower and dont try any of that crap you posted.

The Honda is a better engine from the ones compared in the first post. Honda parts are really not that expensive, if you are getting charge a lot for parts you probably have a dealer that is making a lot of money!

I call b.s on the 9500w Honda vs. the 7500w Briggs. Not a chance. First, find the Briggs model that features a 10-gallon tank. Their 10000w model only has an 8-gallon tank. It's rated for 8 hours at half load. Briggs does not have a 7500w model with a 10-gallon gas tank. No where. Not their website, not other websites.

If, on the other hand, yoy have altered the tanks and/or engines, that makes compariosn a mooter point than jammer1 already pointed out...

Each engine will do the job, each company has earned their reputation. I do know this, for the average piece of equipment I am convinced that when you go to sell it, you will more than make up for the Honda cost difference. Jammer sounds like he is hung up on buy American the way people used to be on cars. You never hear GM and Ford talk about that anymore because they know there really is no such thing anymore. What is more American a Honda assembled in Ohio or a Buick Century assembled in Mexico.

My briggs has a "Prime 'N Pull Easy Starting System". I more acuratly call it "prime 'N PRAY".
It does actually start easy, but the noise and erratic running in anything less than a really hot day is the reason I will not get anouther Briggs. It's on a pressure washer. My Honda Lawnmower is a pleasure to use as a comparison.

I researched the top of the line 190cc OHV Honda Mower Engine on the Honda Web site and it appeared to me that Honda was hiding something. They were really marketing the low emissions and fuel economy, but it occurred to me that they were not forthcoming with any engine power ratings like Briggs.

I think Honda doesn't want you to know that the 190cc OHV Briggs engine simply generates more torque and more horsepower for less money invested. I was able to make that determination after further research on Consumer Reports.

You can talk all you like about how quiet the Honda engines are, but with my dollar I bought the Briggs. I'm very happy with my purchase because here in the South we have a long growing season. My lawn is super thick right now and I really appreciate my Briggs powered mower.