I have a Toro 20062. It's only a year old, so I can't comment on the long term cost/repairs. The mulching is excellent. I haven't had any problems with grass sticking to shoes. I also looked at Honda's, and I think Toro's PP is much better than the thumb drive on the Honda.

I think your conclusion on Snappers is incorrect. My issue with Snapper is you had to pick either a mulching set-up or bagging set-up as "primary" - yes you can convert on either line, but it costs more to buy the accessories. A Toro SR4 or Honda you will get everything you need as delivered. A Toro will cost you less than Honda. Unfortunately Toro no longer offers the Briggs Intek engine on the SR4 line.

I have a Toro Super Recycler 20038 with Briggs Intek - awesome mower. I like the engine on the HRX over the Briggs side valver on the Toro, but prefer Personal Pace over the drive system on the HRX. I would recommend the Toro unless you need every ounce of power you can get - then go with a Honda HRX.

I see Ariens is now using a China built Kohler on the their walkbehinds - but also offer a Kawaski option. The Kohler is an OHV design with 173cc so should be on par with the 160cc Honda common on most walk behinds. The HRX gets a 190cc Honda - so likely still has a bit more grunt over the 173cc Kohler.

The king of power is the Kawasaki FJ180 OHV - Snapper does offer that motor (as well as Ariens) and if power is a consideration you may want to go back to Snapper or look at Ariens.

Toro makes a good mower but I am not a huge fan of their engine choice on the SR4 line. Lawn Boy Insite Platinum 10797 might be a better choice. You get the Aluminum Deck, BCS, and a Honda 160cc - with the Lawn Boy version of Personal Pace called Sens-a-Speed. The 160cc Honda is similar in power to my Intek - plenty of power for most applications. But the Kawaski or HRX 190cc are out there if you need even more....ah ah ah (best Toolman grunt I can do).

Jim

I just bought the Toro 20055 last year and love the results. My neighbor bought the Honda HRX at the same time last year and I think the evenness of the cut is in favor of the Toro.

I disagree with Jim about the power of the side valve Briggs engine. It is more than enough and never bogs down under any circumstance. My last mower had the Honda GCV 160 and I prefer the Briggs over that engine.

If you look into the Honda GCV engines on this site there are many cases of clogged carbs and surging idle. Not a big deal, but something you would have to fix when it happens.

'but something you would have to fix when it happens.'

Or you could just prevent it with an in-line fuel filter and strict use of STA-BIL in the gas can.

I wouldn't worry about the engine. They will both get the job done and last a long time.

Between the Lawn-Boy Insight and the Toro SR4, I decided on Toro (20092) because of details like the cast wheel brackets, greaseable clutch housing and less rolling resistance in the drivetrain. If you mostly bag, I don't think I'd recommend a Toro. Suction is average at best. Mulching is excellent. The Lawn-Boys appear to be much better at bagging.

Have not used the Honda, but in the store I did not care for the thumb drive. Some people complain about Personal Pace, but I have not had any issues with it. Any drive system will have advantages and disadvantages. Overall, for most people, I think Personal Pace works great.

I had never even heard of the Lawnboy line until this thread. The 10797 looks like a nice mower. Seems to get everything the Toro 20093 offers but with a Honda engine instead of the Briggs. Why doesn't Lawnboy get more attention? Seems like a good compromise mower between the 20093 and the HRX217HXA. Am I missing something? 5 year warranty on that lawn boy too !

When I was shopping for a new mower, I looked at the LB's. The Honda engine was a big draw for me. IMO, the LB's seem cheaper and not as well built. Parts like the wheels and handle look less sturdy. I bought a Toro.

One comment on engines -

the deck design in combination with the engine specific torque output at operating RPM will determine how well it cuts (and resistence to bogging down in tough conditions). I can tell you from practical experience a Toro SR deck with Intek can mulch thick grass in a downpour - I know because I have used it that way and it did great. The Brigs Quantum side valve is less powerful - but still on a great deck if you buy a current Toro SR4. For most home homeowers it will be do a great job.

I know someone here had posted a link to torque test results on 2006 walk behind engines. The Tecumseh side valve and Briggs side valve were tied for the lowest - both were effectively the same torque in the test. The Honda 160cc and Briggs Intek had about 20% more, with the Honda 190cc and Kawasaki 180cc offering another 10% or so. The Kohler and Cub Cadet Chinese engine were not available at the time of the test. Since the Kohler is 173cc and OHV - I assume it matches the Honda 160cc in torque.

The "gross torque" figures you see on materials from Toro, Ariens, etc. sites (and HP) don't mean squat since that number is max possible for that design - NOT what the engine produces at the regulated blade speed all mowers have to operate at. That is where the OHV/OHC designs outperform side valve. Briggs side valve is 190cc, and the Tecumseh is 195cc: compared to 160cc on the Honda - yet the Honda makes more real torque due to design benefits of OHV.

It may not matter to most buyers out there - but it matters to me.

Jim

Jim, have you seen any data about how much more gas the bigger engines use?

Sounds to me like going w/ the HXA is more $$ but you're getting a top end consumer grade lawn mower engine and a deck that can do a above average mulch and bag job. Maybe not mulch quite as good as the Toro, but should run quieter and cut through more. I guess I'm going to take a run to the local Honda dealer once I move. Seems like, for me, the HXA seems to make the most sense.

Are Hondas actually quieter? In last year's Popular Mechanics mower comparison a Honda-equipped Lawn-Boy 10797 and a Briggs-equipped Toro 20056 both tested at 85 dBA.

I was unable to find any other mower noise comparisons, but in any case I don't think the difference in noise is as much as people make it out to be.

jimbosc makes valid points but the Toro is not lacking power by any means and is reliable.

Don't get me wrong, the Honda is a good choice, but I would be more concerned about bagging and/or mulching performance and the self propel system.

I can't comment on the two listed above too much, but i will comment on the LB Plat.

I recently purchased the Lawn Boy 10795, which is similar to the 797, but without the Blade brake. I love it. I was down to that and the toro, and the it was a close call, but went with the LB due to the reputation of the Honda engine and I liked the bagging system. I looked at teh HRX honda at Home Depot, thought it was nice, but was turned off by the drive system.

Also, not 100% on what it means, but the Platinum LB has a sealed drive system that is upgraded from the lower level LBs.

Okay, then what about this one?:

RP2160KWV

Is this as good a mulcher as the Toro? And is Easy Speed the same thing as Personal Pace? The Kawa motor should last forever, but the warranty on the whole rig is only 2 years.

This is all so confusing !!!

For those who don't like the Honda drive system what about it don't you like? I haven't use one, but looking at it in the store, I would think I would like the control it offers. Also, the thing basically sits in the palms of your hand not the thumbs.
Jeff

Jeffo, Honda offers two drive systems. The paddle drive system and the lever system.

OK, I was referring to the paddle system.
Jeff

jeffo, It takes me about an hour to mow my lawn, and I can't imagine pushing the paddle for that long. I'd think my thumbs would get tired after a while. The PP on my Toro is invisible to me. I just walk, and it goes.

Hey Jimbosc, what about this one? RP21675BDV

Its a Snapper dedicated mulcher with the B&S 700 DOV engine. I don't know if that's what they call a Intek, but how does this stack up in your eyes? Not only the engine, but the whole package? The Snapper seems very durable.