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What works best is what works for you and how you do things.

Are you wanting to produce compost or digest stuff? Producing the most the fastest means turning. Make it easy to turn then.

Why a sunny spot? The sun is just going to dry things out. Maybe that isn't a concern for you. Down here a little further south it is a big deal.

Not too close to the house and not too far away from water.

Build on pavers to keep the burrowing rodents and tree roots out. The pavers will still let the worms in. You can then sweep up after turning.

Make it work for you and not the other way around.

to sense
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When discussing types of enclosures with people that come out, I usually get around to asking them for the reason that they might want to try a particular method of composting. Esthetics, ease of turning, small area, pesky neighbors, varmints etc etc. Once a person has vocalized a reason(s) then the discussion can turn to whether a particular method will achieve their objectives.

People who have been composting for a while usually enventually evolve into the method that suits them and their circumstances best. This is my "laziness breeds efficiency" theory.

I can't tell you which is best for you, only you can discover that. I will say that the pallet experiment is usually cheap, so trying it doesn't involve a lot of expense and it's easy to get out of it. I did the pallet thing once but I goofed and put them too close to a tree line. The trees won.

Lloyd

Good tip Rott with the paverstones. I was considering a run with hardware cloth, but to save the materials the pavers would work well. But I still loose the leach. Another thought was to change composting areas (windrows) every 12 months or so and make a new bed in the old area. I just don't want it to be visible too long before planting. Also not sure If I should pre-till these previously uncultivated areas (future beds) prior to composting on them..

Hi Pete,
That pre-rototilling sounds great, especially if you can go real deep and then by doing a open pile or piles (open piles shouldn't be more than about 4'x 4' (because of air), your ground would be ready to rock when the compost was mature.

Hi Lloyd,
Laziness breeds efficiency ! !
VoR ... I Love You Man
(but you ain't gettin' my BudLight ;-)

The only reason for any enclosure of any compost pile is neatness, enclosures really add nothing of value to the end product and can be a hinderance to turning. If simnply piling the material you have in the open works well for you don't even consider some kind of enclosure.
There is no good reason to till the soil where the compost pile will go and it would be extra work that does not need to be done.
Compost piles that leach are too wet. If there are "juices" flowing from your compost it is too wet.

If you have hard clay soil pre-tilling and mixing in raw compostables would be good befor putting the pile on top. Here, compost piles sitting on clay for years result in.... compost on top of the unchanged clay

Good Morning Kimmsr,
All of your replies make sense but there are also good reasons for the alternatives
1. 3'x3' square is supposed to be the "best" size for a "Garden Size" Compost pile.....too big and it doesn't get the oxygen it needs and too small it doesn't get the heat it needs for "Hot Composting", of course with "cold composting",you can just throw a apple core out in the field and it will eventually compost.But the Fastest and Hottest Piles are Maintained and Turned 3'x3' contained squares.
2. You don't "NEED" to break up the ground underneath your compost pile (just as you don't "NEED" to "Hot" compost), but the organic material will get down into the ground much faster ,if you manually put it in there. But just like the "Cold" composting, you could wait,and wait,and wait and if you kept piling it on it may eventually get down into the ground. I don't know about you and I certainly don't speak for all gardeners,but I can hardly wait till Spring before I am out in the Garden hoping to do some planting. I don't want to wait for "Nature",she is way too slow for someone like me who wants to plant ......NOW.
3. You have a point,there shouldn't be a ton of water "leaching" from the compost pile, but there will be "some" and since there is undoubtedly some, why not use every bit too add value to your Garden.

The reason for the bins would be to keep critters and pets from digging in it. Most all kitchen scraps go in my worm bin, but something keeps digging in the piles and windrows. I don't mind them turning the pile for me, just hate losing good materials getting scattered about. I built up a previously tilled veggie bed about a month ago (Interbay mulch style) and the critters can't get in through the burlap. Maybe I should just get more coffeebean sacks and cover everything. My piles leach is due to the rainfall. We have had about 18" so far and would expect and hope for another 15-25 before summer. Should I tarp the compost before a storm, of would reduced airflow make it counterproductive? I am going to try several new no-till beds for the first time this year, but still have not figured how to plant a rosebush or 5 gallon container plant without digging...

You might be a compost wacko if you post or read or reply to a thread titled "I've Always Had Piles"-
& nobody makes a joke.

So as to make a meaningful contribution to the actual topic of the thread:

I use piles rather than enclosures because
1) I like minimal structure in any garden project.
2) I'm too short, too old, & too female (that upper-body strength thing) to create any structure or system or method that makes it more difficult for me to wield a garden fork.

Try whatever you want to try, & if it doesn't make your life happier or easier, do something else!

Thank you Silvia. I did expect a livelier response :)

..

Ok now that you've asked.

I'm too damn lazy to till. Mulch with coffee grounds because worms dig it. To mitigate the crusting, mulch with grass clippings on top of the coffee grounds. Mulch with compost any time. For optimal effect, in my opinion, mulch with coffee grounds, because I'm too damn lazy to compost them, and then mulch with compost, because I'm making a bunch of it, and then with grass clippings, because they don't blow away in the wind and just hold things down as they break down.

Let the worms come up from the ground and eat the coffee grounds and then compost and the dig down moving the stuff on top underneath and in the process moving the stuff underneath up on top. The grass clippings keeps everything from drying out. Things drying out is a big deal when you're on the edge of the Mojave.

Tilling does mix things into the soil where you might need them but tilling also busts up soil structure and then there is the whole fungal thing. Tilling just messes up fungal structure. I think it's in your best interest to maintain fungal structure which will support your soil structure.

Containing the compost process means you contain the moisture. That's a big deal here. Since the compost process is a function of surface area versus volume, the most efficient shape would be a sphere. The next most efficient basic shape would be cylinder. Containers also make it easier to cover from rain, wind and, sun. All good things to shield from to keep your pile from drying out. Forgive me but drying out is a big issue I deal with constantly.

Compost piles that leach are a waste of water. Water is an ever increasingly valuable asset.

I concur with Kimmsr largely but I'm a backyard composter and I don't have a tractor to turn my windrows for me. Not to mention that a gravity sloping cone, in the form of windrows, takes up an enormous amount of space. My compost is nowadays, for me, more of a digester of stuff than a producer of compost. Yard "waste" at our house does not go out. Organics are recycled if they aren't composted here. Our land fill curbside pickup is minimized.

The name of the game here on this little postage stamp of a yard is to get the most organics into the soil as fast as possible with the least amount of energy - no matter how you measure that energy.

to sense

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...and I was thinking more along the lines of "you should see a doctor about that".

;-)

Lloyd

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Doctor? Who needs a doctor when you're married?

..

A 3 x 3 Compost pile is the minimum sized pile that really works well, a better size is 4 x 4. Any compost pile less that 6 x 6 will have no problem getting enough air into the center, larger then that will require some kind of auxilary venting. When much younger I did have compsot piles that were 6 x 6 x 50 feet which did not get turned very often and composted quite well with no more effort from me then putting the material together in the right mix with just enough moisture. Snow seldom layed on top of these piles but instead melted fairly quickly after falling there.

Thanks for all the responses. I must confess - I have not always had piles, just since I started composting. It takes a pitchfork to make a pile! It rains hard and often here untill mid-April. Water does not stand and the bottom of the piles are not gooey or anything when turned. I will attempt to tarp most of my compost piles and windrows when wet weather is imminant. I will contruct several pallet bins with a pallet floor along a fenceline. This will be used to store raw materials and excess finished compost. I can then easily tarp it and stop losing leach and loosing materials to the critters. I plan to continue composting in place next spring for future beds. I guess I will always have piles! Thank you for helping me manage them.

""store excess finished compost..."AAAaargh! Envy is one of the deadly sins we must root out of our psychies ... and just when I think I've got it licked ... Pete flaunts his riches in front of my eyes .... EXCESS COMPOST? EXCESS? E-X-C-E-S-S ??? Tell me you drive an exotic car -- not a riple of envy. Tell me that you travel the world, rubbing elbows with the rich and powerful -- not a ripple of envy. But casually drop the comment that you have EXCESS FINISHED COMPOST ... and I am riven with envy.

Barb, i agree! i agree! I would spend the money on a horse just to reap what it leaves behind at this point!

Along those lines ... I wish I could "rent" a goat to chew up my excess greenery [in a portable fence to protect the good stuff] and leave me its little magic pellets.

Kidding aside, I think that there is $$ to be made by someone to "hire out" their goats [portable fence] to trim the underbrush that fuels wild fires. They work even cheaper than the work force who only "come to work" for a dime on the dollar of a living wage.

There's a company that rented out a goat herd up in this area(Western Washington State) for clearing brush with. I'll see if I can find their name.'
Hal

Here is a link that might be useful: The Compost Tumbler

I think there's money to be had baling up chipped leaves in tight bales like they do peat moss. (I'm wrong, right?)

I think there's money to be made with my buoyant, underwater bicycle invention (powered by paddlewheels).

And my silicone ironing board (needs no pads or covers). Washable.

AP, there is a town somewhere in the States that does bale their leaves, I've seen the pictures, way cool!

Hal, welcome to GW, looked at your website, nice tumbler!

;-)

Lloyd

There are some people making money in California using goat herds to establish and maintain fuel breaks. They use portable electric wire fencing operated by battery. The herdsman? would move the fence along the road every few days. Government grant $ I think. Pretty easy deal really. Very effective fuel break and much faster than doing it manually (Iknow!). They can damage your garden very quickly though (I know!). Borderbarb I don't plan on getting in a big hurry to build a bin for EXCESS compost. Wishful thinking!

mendiopete ...

Why not make piles where you plan to plant in the next year or two, or just layer the materials and let them decompose until you are ready to plant.

Hi,
I did get some more information about the goat herd. They were hired by the University of Washington where I work. They are called "Rent a Ruminant" and they are based in Seattle. Here is a couple of articles:

http://boingboing.net/2009/10/28/goat-rentals-for-cle.html
http://rent-a-ruminant.mapmate.com/maps/1061

They say they have "modest" rates, but I don't know how much the University spent. They did indeed clear out the blackberries however, which are like a disease if you let them get started...

Back to the original post here - Pete it seems like you could make a heck of a lot of compost with a fifteen foot square pile and frontloader. Were you using a frontloader or turning it by hand? Think if you are working it with a tractor the pallets would get in the way.

Thanks for the welcome Lloyd.

Hal

Here is a link that might be useful: The Compost Tumbler

Hi Hal

I guess I was also trying to be slightly funny with the 'nice tumbler' being underlined and the wink.

It's my tumbler.

Lloyd

Too funny, Lloyd - That IS your tumbler!

Val

I, like sylviatexas, am female with poor upper body strength but I fine the 3 bin 3x3ft bins work great for me. With removable slats in front, I can remove or add as many as I need to adjust the height of the wall. Then I use the wall itself as a fulcrum, dig the manure fork into the compost and lean on it with all my weight (that's NOT a problem) to budge the lump of compost up and then lift it into the next bin. Hope that makes sense. I agree with all who say it's whatever works best for each individual compost flipper!

Hey, Barbie!
I never said "poor" upper body strength!
Our only "problem" is that tools are designed to be used by people with even more upper body strength than we have!

& I got a question about "each individual compost flipper".

Where do you order a compost flipper & how much do they cost?

I discuss my piles with enthusiasm and show them to anyone who cares (dares!) to look! Mine are kept neat, in bins with chicken wire around...does make turning a little bit difficult.

Speaking of hiring out critters for weed control...what can I hire that will eat MESQUITE??? Camels? Elephants? I think I need a herd of elephants on my property! There just aren't enough bbq pits in the world to get rid of the stuff.

Lynn

My apologies to sylviatexas...never meant to imply that YOU also had poor upper body strength. I agree the tools are lacking in good ergonominics. Except for that "compost flipper" thing-hahaha-good one. I'm the only compost flipper around my place, BUT there seem to be lots of folks on here who have already flipped. Don't you agree and isn't that why they're here?

Hi Lloyd,
Oh my gosh, that is your tumbler! I'm amazed. Did you build it? It looks like corregated galvanized sheet metal on the sides. Was that some kind of container? Wow, it's kind of late, but can I use a picture of your tumbler on my website? ;) That is such a coincidence!
Anyway, I've learned so much here, and will keep learning. Thanks you guys.

Hal

Here is a link that might be useful: Compost tumbler

Hi Hal

Ya that tumbler was one of our first projects and one of my favorites. Roofing tin attached to a steel ribbed frame.

I have no problem with you using it, I think it's kinda neat. I also found my trommel sifter over on two other sites, I think lots of people google stuff and then link back. The internet sure shrinks the world!

TTFN

Lloyd

Lynn, I would like to see your nice neat piles and I love your enthusiasm! It has been raining here lately and my piles have been covered with wet burlap and a tarps. How long can I leave them covered? Most piles heated up for a couple weeks but are now cool. Hal I do turn with a pitchfork. Pete

Lloyd, Thanks. Knowing that you built it yourself gives it a special meaning.

Pete,
I like that. Some of us have a way about doing things by hand like that. I have a vineyard that I work by hand, now this is because it's steep and rocky and the rows are just too narrow to get the rototiller in without damaging the roots. But there's something else about it that's difficult to describe.
And you're getting the exercise. Hal

Here is a link that might be useful: Compost Tumbler

Hi,
I tried to post later and mention that my vineyard isn't really big, it has about 200 vines. But I guess you can only post here so often. It's over in central Washington state, and the challenge with composting over there is that it takes water, and I don't have much water at my place. I'm going to try some plastic covers on a few piles in the spring before the moisture completely dissipates. Anyone else facing the same challenge?

Hal

Here is a link that might be useful: Compost Tumbler

Hal, I also have a dry environment. I keep the compost piles covered with plastic during the summer to try to keep moisture in, but I find that the heat of composting will dry out the pile, too.

I have seen both fresh (green) grass clippings, and freshly pruned tree chippings (ramial wood) get up above 140F and dry themselves out long before they are finished composting.

For the ramial wood, I'll just have to turn it when it overheats. For the grass clippings, I think I'll dilute them with more leaves to prevent the overheating.