I would have agreed with #5 if you asked me a month ago but this year we haven't had any rain and have had to use only tap water and I have had fine fescue and kbg hatch in a week and bent hatch in 4-5 days. It hasn't been easy. I've watered more than 3 times a day. I will say that the rain does do a more complete job but I always worry about the risk of thunderstorms washing away all the seed like it normally does.

This year I was running behind and didn't think through my front yard so well. I should have used fine fescue there but I didn't have time or so I thought because I was trying to kill the underlaying bermudagrass. Little did I know at the time I was using is supposedly glyphophate tolerant thus I could have installed a permanent beautiful ff lawn and with encroaching bermuda, supposedly sprayed it with roundup. This remains to be seen though. I can't wait to see how this blend does in the back and side yards. If I can literally spray it with roundup to deal with the unwanted grass, how nice would that be?

Oh... And NO MORE STRAW!!!!!

Amen to topdressing with Peat Moss. I was rushed getting mine on my yard as I waited for a 2 day rain that was coming to get my seed down. I took a 1/2 day off work, ran by the rental store and got my slit seeder. Got the starter fertilizer on and then covered with peat moss. I was about 1/2 way through my 10 bales when the rain started. By the time I got the other 5 spread, I looked like I'd just played a full 4 quarters of sloppy football. A couple of spots in my yard, I spread the moss too thick and the grass is a little thinner as the seed didn't get enough sunlight I think. I plan to flag those areas and do a snow seed this winter.

So here's to those already plannining for The Fall '08. Do the peat moss topdressing. Your new seed will thank you for the natural compost and the added moisture!

I learned that blue grama germinates and gets started pretty easily when it's in the high 90s, but western wheatgrass does less well under those circumstances.

I also learned that the 3x a day watering that works best for "normal" turf grass is probably not the best approach with native grasses. Native grasses seem to do better with a good soaking once a day.

I also learned not to give up too quickly. I think this lesson applies to "normal" turf grasses as well, but I first planted August 10, and I finally quit watering around the end of September. We've seen a little rain since, and I'm getting some new germination.

I've now got a good portion of my lawn growing native grasses so I'm going to continue with overseeding, but if I ever buy another house and start a native lawn, I'll kill the existing lawn first and start from scratch.

What I learned, most recently, surprised me. I guess I should have noticed it before, or at least tested it before, but if I ever did, well, that escapes me. So here is a bit of Files Wisdom, as regards to lawn patching, and lawn filling in.

I had some truck ruts. Some longish ruts, right across the lawn, which basically got divided into thirds: one third got left, below ground level, by about two inches, even though I put an inch or two of fill into them. See 'A' in the sketch. Another third of the ruts ("B" in the sketch) got filled, and then some, and got mounded, about two inches. The last third ("C" in the sketch) got filled, and trimmed to exactly ground level. Dead level. Or, as Goldilocks would have noticed, "...Juusstt RIGHT!"

{{gwi:120685}}

The first two, the low and high, won't fill in. The dead level one is already almost entirely filled in. The sprouts on that one spread into the patch area, and then those sprouts seem to spread more yet.

The lawn is entirely the same throughout. I renovated this year, and put down Milorganite twice, and that lawn just LOVES October. It's growing like crazy. All of it. Uniformly. Except the two patches, low and high, are coming in slowly, while the dead level patch is thriving. None of the truck ruts got seeded. My assumption was, hey, it's Kentucky Bluegrass, it will spread at this time of the year, leave it alone.

So there's the observation, folks. If you need to make a patch, I'd surely recommend taking the time to get the height the same as the surrounding soil, and I mean exactly the same. There's something about a height difference that bluegrass doesn't seem to like to spread out in. But dead level, hey, you can't slow the stuff down. I'm wondering if this has some impact on the seeding of hillsides, and that a more shallow slope will fill in faster than a steeper slope. And maybe that's just next year's project. But for this year, with the patching, the observation surprised me, and I thought I'd share it with you.

I'll second the post about mulches - I used Lesco seed starter mulch in a few bare or thin-grass areas of my yard and it worked really well. It's very similar to Penn mulch, made out of extruded recycled newspaper.

In a few areas I made the mistake of over-applying the mulch. Only ~30% coverage is needed - if you apply too much, it will form a blanket and smother the seedlings.

The greatest benefit was that it helped to retain some moisture and allowed longer intervals between watering. The mulch is also impregnated with a mild starter fertilizer that works well.

If you're the type to forget watering your seed, the mulch turns dark green when damp, and light green when drying out - the color can remind you its time to water.

Yeah, I have a few of those larnin' 'speriences as well.

Amen on the mulch. Use it. Love it. Don't use straw. :-) I used peat moss and had good results, plus the worms seem to like it.

Patience is a virtue. At day 21, I was wondering where the lawn was. By day 30, I had a (thin, weak, but there) lawn.

Water more than you really think you should. With an irrigation system, five minutes x 3 per day does not cut it. Ten minutes x 3 per day does.

Reasonability is a virtue. At day 75, it's still not 100% filled in because there were some tough patches. I have about 90% of a full, rich lawn, 5% patchy, 5% really sparse. For day 70 that's not bad and I'll dormant seed.

Start early (if you can keep it wet). August 15th is fine, and I had good sprout in two weeks or less. Later starts for more sun-drenched areas are good, though.

Organically feed early and often. The front yard already looks like a showpiece, the grass is eating the weeds for lunch, and the density and color are excellent to extraordinary for a young lawn. I have to mow twice a week, but that's OK. I don't mind.

Don't ignore weeds. Really, they'll take over. I left some of the weaker ones and those did encourage sprout underneath. When I took them out, there's grass.

Don't go psycho about it. Walk it gently if you must, don't bemoan a single missed watering, and don't freak out over a few small weeds here and there.

I learned grass is tough. We've had just about zero rain and I've only been able to water once due to local restrictions. I used the pelletized mulch and aerated before putting out seeds. To my surprise, I've gotten some germination and more pops up each day. It isn't nearly as smooth as it would be if I was allowed to water it properly, but it's coming along. I'm pretty sure I'm never going to get anything close to 100% germination, but it's working way better than I expected.

I learned that rounding up an entire yard and reseeding is actually the EASY way to go. If someone had suggested last year - before I found this forum - that I kill my whole yard and start over, I would have said "that's crazy!" But it's not, and is so much easier than piecemeal "renovation," which I have tried and failed at for many years, and the results are so much better.

I also learned that Tupersan/Siduron is probably a very worthwhile investment at renovation time. I could not believe the weeds that came up, even in Fall after multiple Roundup applications! I am fairly confident that I will be able to get them under control next year, but still they have been quite a nuisance.

And, of course, I learned, the hard way, after years of following a "live and let live" philosophy, that...

...THE ONLY GOOD VARMINT IS A DEAD VARMINT!

(tongue mostly in cheek) Next time I will be proactive in the varmint control department. Even if it is not usually a problem, when it is it can be a big one, as I have so recently learned.

BTW, these are only the things I learned from my own experience. I learned many other things just listening to the regulars hear, so a big hearty thanks to you all, you know who you are!

Paul

Um, that would be "here" not "hear," hate when I do that...

I'm with Morph on the August 15th date. I seeded on September 1st, which I think was a late for WI. I wish I had 2 more weeks. I would've seeded by then, but I had a LOT of trouble killing my lawn.

I learned that plan your RU applications on days with no rain, as I had 4-5 applicaitons on some of my lawn and still didn't get everything. We had too much rain here in WI.

I learned to not be afraid to seed as you go. The spots I seeded at the 2-3 week time frame after the original seedings sprouted and are now established 2-3 weeks later.

I learned that you can overwater. Water less in areas that don't get as much sun.

I leared that this has been an excellent experience and that this board is the very best resource! Bestlawn was a dream at helping many of us find the perfect seed.