The best place for your cow manure is in your compost pile. Manure, while it does contribute some organic matter to soil, is not the best thing for soils unless it is combined with 3 parts of vegetative waste, same as in your compost pile. But since manures have the potential of containing serious disease pathogens putting it into soil where food crops are to be grown is not a super terrific idea no matter what our grandparents did.

Eddie,
Enough, already! In SC. the pure sand soil type varies from place to place, yard to yard. Yet, through the years it has sustained the population, fed the Yankee Army as it pillaged and burned and contributed much in the way of research to the horticultural world. Random thoughts on the subject.

1. You seem frantic about pH. As you gain more experience and study other yards and farms noted will be the fact that plants can adapt to a wide range of situations, especially if you select some of the quality types which have been developed by Clemson, UGA, et al, specifically for the south. The best vegetable garden I have seen in the south was on Spring Island, SC. which is a very private plantation. The owner of the garden, while out riding his horse in the depths of the Island discovered the old saw mill and huge mounds of pine sawdust/bark composted over the centuries. He built raised beds and filled them with nothing but this very acid pine compost soil. The results are unbelievable. Brassicas that look like those pictures of crops grown in Alaska.

2. Suggest you not use or compost fresh animal manures in the south. It is loaded with Bahia Grass seed. Once introduced into a garden it will forever be a weeding nightmare. Ditto hairy vetch. Your best cover crop in the veggie garden is the constant use of straw and the Ruth Stout method. Look it up.

3. Nutrients added to sandy soil quickly leach into the underworld. Your job is to figure out how to slow this process down. Forget about tilling.

4. I'm going to cut to the chase here. Place all you reports, studies, questions in the back of a dark drawer for this year. Plant your winter veggie garden using several handfuls of bagged mushroom compost in each planting hole or spread in the bottom of rows plus a handful of dried molasses which will discourage various root insects. Water in as you plant. Now, spread pine needles as a mulch over all. Yes, I know they are acid. Don't worry about it. Press on. On top of the pine straw spread the dark, rich pine bark mulch mixed with any compost on hand. Over this a light scattering of straw. This should be all you need do to grow veggies, repeated annually, building the soil. Amend sandy soils at the surface. Spend your efforts on developing compost, of which 25% pine bark compost should be incorporated. Great stuff! Use it.

kimmser-
Yeah, I worry about manure, but more about what's done to it through things that are given the animals. You still think it's a problem putting it on top of the garden soil, letting it age for x period of time, then incorporating it?

Nandina-
Funny stuff.

Frantic, is probably a little strong, but yeah, I guess the whole "correct ph" has gotten into my head. I'm probably a little more concerned than I was since I found out my irrigation water is very acid. Just trying to make certain, I don't get myself in a bind. Trying to get to the point where I don't need to lime so....

We have bahaia and it's tough to deal with. Not "fond" of it at all. That being said, if I were to use "dairy" manure, how would the grass seed get into that? Do you still percieve of that particular variety of manure to be a problem?

What's the problem with hairy vetch? Weed Seed source?

I'll look into the Ruth Stout method you recommend.

Forget about tilling? I take it you're an advocate of no till farming. I have zero experience/knowledge about it. Please give me your reasons for adopting the methodology. I'm interested, just don't think it's something I can pull off this go round.

Interesting mulching "system". I certainly have plenty of pinestraw around here... just never thought it made a whole lot of sense in the garden.

When you talk about the pine bark mulch, are you talking about aged pine bark fines?

so, "any compost on hand" could be simply shredded leaves turned into leaf mold or would it need to be something more elaborate (with greens in it).

So, pine straw, 25% pine bark mulch compost blend. How would you describe the function of the different materials?

Mushroom compost. Why am I so paranoid about that stuff?

So, you're a believer in the dried molasses. Had a thread going a while back that pretty much put the idea of using it to rest for me. You bring it up however so I'm curious as to your take on it. I liked that it could work to control fire ants, also, liked the possibility of it contibuting to my microbial activity. You're a believer, others are not. It's all good. Help me with your take on it. Maybe even reply to the thread.

A compost heap is a great start to green gardening, and best of all, it is inexpensive, if not free to start and maintain. Here's a link to a basic article on starting a compost heap. Hope you find it helpful.

Here is a link that might be useful: Composting 101: Let's Get Cooking

Doubtful that I can get through to you. One more try....

1. Yes, I use dried molasses in my gardens to thwart root insects/nematodes when needed. Also scatter it once a month to prevent lawn thatch problems.

2. I think Bahia grass seed must have a viability life span of 100 years. It is the southern recommended pasture grass. Seeds pass directly through animal intestines untouched. Composting has no effect on the seed. You have enough problems, why add this one to the list? Plant hairy vetch and you will quickly figure out why I discourage using it.

3. The no-till method is best for backyard, sandy, southern soils where nutrients leach south quickly. You want to slow down that process and an annual application of pine straw spread under mulches and amendments seems to do the job best. It is slow to decay. Repeat...sandy soils are enriched at the surface, year after year without disturbing the soil except to plant.

4. I am unable to help you with your acid water. I gardened one SC. property for 17 years with great success using very acid well water and the enrichment methods spelled out above. Never did use any lime. Also learned to go easy on alfafa meal spread around ornamentals during hot periods. Found some interesting fungus plant problems developing. Now I only spread it in late winter.

5. Many of us use mushroom compost here. Your choice.

6. Yes, I am suggesting the aged pine bark fines. Use about 25% in your compost pile along with greens and kitchen stuff. Turn often to aerate.

Greeness-
Thanks for the link.

Nandina-
What makes you think you're not getting to me?
Yeah, I ask a lot of questions.... when something interests me. There's that saying about the skeptic- if you can bring them on board...

You mentioned bahia grass in the context of manure again. I asked what I believed to be a relevant question about dairy manure specifically and the unlikely nature (I believe) of it NOT carrying bahaia weed seed. Now I don't know for a fact if that would be the case, was just curious as to your perspective on it. FWIW, I'm leaning away from manure in general, but want to have my reasons for doing it, because there sure is a LOT of it around here. Chicken farms galore. Dairy farms a little further away. Horses everywhere (already decided to not use that because of weed seed). See. I'm reasonable. If dairy cows have the potential for bahaia weed seed, then I'm probably not interested in that either.

I'm OK with the molasses. Again, I considered using it until I was talked out of it. Was interested in your explanation as to how it works for you.

The whole enriching sandy soils at the surface actually makes sense to me. I'm very familiar with pinestraw and it's resistance to breaking down. So, the fact that it could act as some sort of relatively dense filter makes sense. What I don't get/understand about the no till method, is how do you plant seeds? Do you plant them in the mulch? Or do you rely on transplants? Or what? Can you use a seeder?

OK on the mushroom compost.

Good on the pine bark fines... readily available to me.

OK. Acid water you're familiar with. I take it it won't be a problem for me either then.

Planting in mulched beds is explained in the Ruth Stout information. One stakes out a row, pulls the mulch away along the row and plants seeds at the depth suggested on a seed packet. Cover the row with soil (screened compost is best) and returns the mulch back in place as the seeds germinate and grow. This works well for radishes, carrots, lettuce, mesclun, etc. I prefer using transplants for the larger growing vegetables, either raising my own if I want specific varieties or the southern box stores and local nurseries usually have a good fall selection of kales, chards, cabbage and broccoli. Territorial Seed Co. carries a nice selection of Japanese vegetables which grow well in the southern winter garden.

OK. I understand now about how to plant seeds etc.

Japanese vegetables. Humh. What makes them particularly suited to the southern winter garden. Sounds interesting.

I can understand why you might be afraid of mushroom compost. Mushroom raising uses a lot of chemicals. I've also heard that mushroom compost tends to be salty. I quit using it because of the chems, but I did use it for years and didn't have a problem with it. It just started giving me the creeps after a while.

Crankyoldman-
I'm not certain if nandina is talking the bagged varieties or something she can get locally. That being said, I think my problem with it, is the not knowing where it comes from and what's potentially in it. Similar reasons led me to stop using bagged "black kow" in my garden. Guess I just got tired of finding bits of plastic and some other weird stuff in it. That coupled with a bunch of sand in it, just got me thinking bad about it. Started thinking maybe they were using municipal compost in it perhaps. Anyway, the unknowns are eventually what did it in for me.

I think it's the same kind of questions for me with the other types of composts (all of them) on the market.