How to kill ugly lawn w Bermuda & prepare for winter Rye grass

14 years ago

We have a lawn with Bermuda grass, which is full of weeds and empty/yellow patches (fungus?). It looks horrible. We wanted to water it every other day 1 time per day, but guys who mow our grass & take care of the yard were changing the schedule to every day & insisting that we have problems with the grass because we donÂt water enough. So, for the last 3 months the watering schedule was every day (early morning). I donÂt have enough strength in me to hire a different company Â I feel bad leaving these guys without a job. Yes, IÂm that weak...

We have no desire to have the same type of Bermuda for the next spring & we would like to have Rye grass during the winter season.

What are the right steps to do in order to have healthy Rye grass in the future & opportunity to seed a different type of summer grass in 2010?

If we kill all current grass & weeds with e.g RoundUp, will it be enough to plant Rye grass in the middle of October or something else has to be done? Should we aerate the soil?

The total area of the lawn is ~ 1400 sq ft. WeÂre in Arizona, 85224.

Thank you!

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Comments (3)

rdaystrom
14 years ago
You could probably do the Roundup kill and Rye grass seeding plan and get away with it. The Bermuda will come back in the Spring so you may need to plan for an extensive lawn redo next spring. One option would be to kill it all again with Roundup and have someone prepare the soil and put down solid sod of the grass you desire to have.
dchall_san_antonio
14 years ago
I agree with rdaystrom. What kind of grass do you want?

Watering every day, even in the AZ desert, is not a great idea. In fact it was a Phoenix based landscaper who convinced me that once a week watering was all that was needed even in the heat of summer. I say this because your mowing guy is not doing you any favors. His ignorance is a problem, and he is probably the one you'll turn to to do the RU and seeding. I would suggest you get a professional landscaper involved for that. He can do it right and recommend a different mowing crew for you. Look in the yellow pages for Landscapers and get one who has been in your area for decades.
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I see this problem frequently with new construction, usually because rye is often used for soil retention prior to sodding, but the scenario is still very similar. It is also one of the reasons I've developed a disdain for rye. 1) Don't use an herbicide right now. This may be hard to swallow as I imagine you used Annual Rye and it is growing like the weed it is, but your lawn is not established enough to use an herbicide strong enough to kill the rye. For now, keep it mowed down short, and keep it watered until it roots. 2) Again, no herbicide. I love Celsius WG and have used it since it hit the market. It is a great product, and will be useful for you at some point, but under the label restrictions it clearly warns to "use this product on established turf only," and this isn't just to skirt damage claims, the warning is there for good reason. 3&4) "Scalping" is done during dormancy and topdressing is done during active growth. Keep in mind a scalping is just the pruning off of last season's dead growth, so if your sod didn't grow the scalping need should be fairly light. Also, consider rolling the lawn with a water filled drum to smooth it and insure that the roots are making good contact. The fact that it didn't grow after being put down concerns me, as sod is vulnerable to dehydration until it roots. 5) Yes, to an extent. Bermuda is one of the more hardy grasses so I've never seen it killed by scalping it. However, I have seen it stunted by scalping it during the growing season. So again, cut it down now and top-dress later. When it's actively growing, the root system pulls water primarily through a process call Transpirational Pull, which is the release of water through the leaves that creates a pull through the capillaries that reach all the way to the root system. When an actively growing leaf is removed, it interrupts this process and reduces the root systems draw on the soil moisture. Also, make sure to apply a good starter fertilizer this Spring to encourage the root system to root as quickly as possible. Once it is established and you're mowing regularly, you can go after any lingering ryegrass or other weeds without worry. Just remember to always check label restrictions. Here is a link that might be useful: .
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Thanks a lot for all the responses. I have purchased the rye grass seed and I will overseed it very soon. I am concerned about weakening the existing grass, but I just have to try and see this year and decide whether it is better to have the bermuda weakened or to put up with brown grass half of the year. :) Anyway, before I go ahead, I have some final questions in my mind: #1 Here is the current state of my lawn. It is not completely dormant I guess, but almost. Do you think it is better to wait a bit more so that it goes completely dormant, or should I overseed it right now? The weather is expected to be around high 60's (F), max 70F during the day and mid 50's (F), minimum 53- 54 (F) during the night until the end of October. #2 The place that I purchased the seed advised me to apply the seed at a rate of 30 g. per square meters (approx. 6.5 lb per 1000 sq. feet). Is this a good amount? #3 After I overseed, I know I have to water frequently, but refrain from creating a pond on top. Here, the soil is always wet now in the mornings because of the dew, so I suppose, watering early in the morning and at night isn't necessary? Is once midday and once early in the evening with the sprinkler system sufficient? #4 I believe my current grass is not common bermuda, but a variety instead (more dense and thinner and finer looking blades). Is it possible to identify it? Here are two more closer pictures:
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texas_weed
14 years ago
I donÂt have enough strength in me to hire a different company Â I feel bad leaving these guys without a job. Yes, IÂm that weak...

Well grow some brass ones, because you are being taken advantage of. Your contractor is use to getting told to take a hike. You will being both of yourselves a favor, fire him NOW.

The problem is not your variety of Bermuda grass, keep the same practices you use now, and whatever variety of Bermuda you use will fail. Fire your contractor NOW, he is killing your grass with his advice and practice. Otherwise continue dump money in a bottomless pit.

Ok enough of the soapbox stuff. What is giving you problems is watering schedule, fertilizer, and mowing

Watering:
You are over watering the grass, and is the source of your fungus and weed problems period. You cannot depend on anyone, the grass will tel you when it is time, You have to learn when by observation period. No one can be trusted. GOT IT?

To determine if it needs watered is as simple as when you wake up, or go to bed each night. Go out and walk around and look at the grass. When you walk look back where you walked. Do your footsteps disappear quickly, or do your footprints remain? If it springs back means it is hydrated and OK. If your footprints remains it needs water.

But the best method is a color change from deep green to a slightly blueish or graying color change. When Bermuda or really any grass is properly hydrated, the leafs of the grass open fully to expose the upper surface to sunlight and looks vivid dark green. However when it dries out it has a built in defense mechanism. The leaf will curl up to minimize its exposure to sunlight to conserve evaporation losses. This exposes the underside of the leaf which is a different color. For Bermuda grass that is a blueish or grayish color telling you to water.

Sorry to be ruff on you but you need a wake up call, and learn to take care of the watering yourself.

As for fertilizing and mowing, let's stop here until you respond with questions.

How to kill ugly lawn w Bermuda & prepare for winter Rye grass

Comments (3)

rdaystrom

dchall_san_antonio

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