Scott's doesn't have any *Kentucky bluegrass* in their mix. It is their hybrid bluegrass called Thermal Blue.

I'd rather have the midnight as that has proven itself down here in GA. Then again I haven't tried the other, I'll admit.

So the midnight would be a better mix? Why, is it darker, looks better etc etc. How about in the the heat like we have in Virginia? I thought the Termal Blue was a KBG. If not, what is it?

It is texas bluegrass x KY bluegrass.
There is also Dura blue which I think Scotts also owns. (and probably a bit better in trials than thermal blue)

The hybrids may have better heat tolerance but studies have shown require mower mowing and fertilizer and resistance to disease and pests is not necessarily better.

I don't know what your heatwave in VA is like but I would question is it really *that hot*?
It's been in the upper 80's here and people complain to no end about "the horrible heat" and "it must be global warming". Horrible heat in my book is 90 and above on a daily basis for weeks or months. Has it reached that point?
It wasn't that long ago that y'all were complaining about ice.
If you can keep your KBG irrigated or better yet... I swear by afternoon shade (not morning, not all day) during periods of hot and dry weather then you can grow it.
The big question I would have is the humidity of the midatlantic region which can be worse than here. Things like regular evening rains and the grass sitting in damp conditions overnight without drying could spell diseases. I'd worry more about that than the heat.

We have some stretches were it stays above 90. Today it is 97 and the highs are expected to be 95+ for about the next week. I have good irrigation so I guess if there is not much of a difference the Rebel Extend would be better.

"There is also Dura blue which I think Scotts also owns. (and probably a bit better in trials than thermal blue)
The hybrids may have better heat tolerance but studies have shown require mower mowing and fertilizer and resistance to disease and pests is not necessarily better."

So does the Dura blue not look as good? I don't care about more mowing b/c I have a zero turn. My main concern is looks. I did not know which one looked better. If the Scotts looked as good and could tolerate the heat, I was going to go with their product. There is not a lot of info on this product. Right now I'm leaning toward the Rebel Extend. Thanks

Yikes. I didn't know it got that hot there.
It very rarely gets that hot here during the summer. If temps like that were common I think I would instead just use tall fescue for a few reasons.
The cost, the relative ease of establishment, and because I believe the roots will be deeper in perhaps average soil conditions allowing it to survive drought better.

Now with that said there seems to be a lot of people noticing lately that their KBG has outperformed their TTTF in their experiences. I too have noticed this but there is an overwhelming amount of trial ratings that don't agree with the observations that KBG is more heat and drought tolerant.

The bottom line is this,
If you buy a bag of that stuff at BigMart Depot the bag is going to contain mostly Tall FEscue anyway. LAst I checked there is roughly 5-9% (by weight) thermal blue in there. That could of course vary so don't hold me to it. Roughly, that is approximately 65% tttf / 35%KBG and also take into account probably a little less germination will occur with the KBG because after a few weeks of babying the seeds you're going to slack.

The color of Bluegrass is great then again so are the top rated Rebels. You'd spend a good deal less going with TTTF and not so many headaches to get the lawn going.

I'd be curious to read some feedback from some other posters about their experiences.

Thanks for the info. Right now my lawn looks great but the very front is not as dark as every other area. My house faces west so I don't know if there too much sun or what. All the other areas of the lawn are a nice dark green but the front is not. I had a crab grass problem in the front last year so maybe the grass there is just not as thick as the other areas? The grass also does not look as uniform as other areas. This is why I wanted some blue grass to perhaps make the lawn a deeper green. I'll probably go back and forth between these two products until I have to seed in Sept.

I would think some KBG would help blend in the color better and make it darker. I kind of got of track here since you are not comparing against just rebel tttf. But there is another blend out there too. I think it's Ultra Blue. I think that's a pennington product. Sometimes that has KBG in there. Could be wrong. If you have your heart set on doing KBG, maybe just get small bags of both of what you are comparing and mix it up.

I had a similar situation. Last year I went to the local Lesco and got a 50 lb. bag of 100% Midnight KGB and some starter Fertilizer. I scalped the lawn, aerated thoroughly (several passes with a tow behind aerator), overseeded and put the starter fertilizer down. I had rust last year and was hoping to get a handle on it since the NTEP test rates the Midnight highly in that regard (even much higher than Midnight II), but I have already seen some rust in the lawn. As far as the color, I honestly do not see much of a difference. The biggest change was density, i.e., how much the bluegrass filled in.

Well, improving the density some in my front yard is needed. As mentioned before we have only been in the house for about a year. Last year crabgrass destroyed the front yard sod and I think this is why it does not look as good as other areas. I also have a tow behind core aerator. I was going to use it this Sept and put down lime followed by seed. The seed I was looking at was the Rebel Extend with about 10% Midnight KGB (by weight). As noted by another poster the actual seed count is a much higher percentage. Where do you live? How has your KGB handled the heat/sun? I don't think/hope I would not have a problem with rust b/c I would have a nice mix of fescue and KGB. I'm about a month out from when I'm going to start this process.

Just FYI, approximately 14% by weight is about half.
And I had rust with some midnight that was planted in shade, both morning and afternoon shade that is. It did clear up after a couple of fungicide applications.

....BUT...
I've heard that thermal blue is susceptible to rust pretty bad. (Some university in Alabama I believe)

"I'm not going to go all out and buy pure elite KBG/make my own mix"

Why not? You get what you pay for! You mentioned you live in a neighborhood, so I assume your lawn isn't huge, so I think about 10 lbs of KBG would be more than enough for an over seeding project. You can check the NTEP web site to find the best performing KBG in the area. Typically, if you buy a bag of blended TTTF/KBG, there is only one cultivar of KBG, why not just purchase 10lbs midnight. You could even call summitseed and blend your own three if you feel you need to do that.

Here is a link that might be useful: Blacksburg VA, NTEP KBG Results

I reclaimed a large portion of back yard last year and as a test seeded that area exclusively with Scott's Thermal Blue. The rest of the back yard is Southern Gold. My thoughts...i'm not impressed with Scott's Thermal Blue for the premium price. Also, in comparison of the fescue varieties in the Thermal blue mix, they score mediocre on the NTEP trials compared to Southern Gold's varieties. I'm not saying that Southern Gold is the standard by which all fescues are tested, only that i'm providing a basis of comparison. I haven't tried midnight or any of the other premium KBG's so I can't comment on them. Also, I do not have irrigation though I will run sprinklers once a week if I don't get any rain for long periods of time.

I will not overseed with Scott's Thermal Blue this year. Granted one year may not be enough time to judge this fairly but given the timing and resources tied up in my annual fall overseeding, I'll stick with what is known to me to produce; Southern Gold or Confederate Plus (if still available).

Since you mentioned Thermal Blue I thought this might help.

Here is a link that might be useful: thermal blue thread

Your link suggests that the Scotts Thermal Blue is some sort of scam? They seem to really think that fescue does a lot better than any KGB in the summer and that these KGB/fescue mixes are just a short lived fad. I'm not sure how helpful that link was b/c it seemed to just make me more confused.

Just to update because I'm thinking of going with thermal blue. Home depot does have a 19% thermal blue mix available at least here and I imagine anywhere you buy the mix. The 9% mix is 12 for a 5 pound bag and the 19% is 20 for a 5 pound bag. The 5 pounder is all I will need. I'm not sure reading this post if I want to try it. However I know there isn't any other kbg that can survive the humidity here in the summer. Thermal blue is suppose to be disease resistant and bred for the heat and humidity. Maybe I should have just pushed my bermuda hard and sprayed the other weed grasses in the bermuda dormant season.

Where are you? Right now I'm fighting to keep my fescue looking good. We are going on 2 weeks of 90+ temps and the last few days have been 95+. They say we have at least another week to go and may hit 100 a few days. Also there has been NO RAIN which is incredible b/c we also have the high humidity. Anyway, I have irrigation but would hate to put down a KGB that could not handle these temps and would make my lawn look brown next year or have to be watered a lot more. I have gotten by this summer with water bills just under $200 but my neighbor all have bills around $600.

I live in Virginia Beach. Some of the fescue lawns look ok but every year about now I'm looking to see brown patch on the fescues. This a a very common disease here. The big difference from this part of the state and other parts is we are having weather similar to yours but at mid night last night and many times it's in the 80's still and a heat index of 85 going off of last nights info but it's common to have humidity levels at or near 80% day and night during the heat waves. I thought the thermal blue was drought and disease tolerant. I got lucky with my water when I moved in there was a well that I had to do a few repairs on so I can use well water for my yard.

The nice thing about buying seed from big box stores is if it doesn't live up to it's promises on the bag including germination rate then take you can take it back. save your receipt.

AMEN!

Is there any real solid university studies to make my decision easier for establishing a new lawn in the warm humid part of the transition zone? It looks like midnite might not work to well plus the fact that rebel extend has less kbg then scotts thermal blue cross has. Earlier I posted that some of scotts reseed supreme had 19% thermal blue. Sorry it is only 15%. One thought is to get both and seed for diversity which is good in the turf world but do the two meaning midnite and thermal blue collide with different colors? As far as a concern for rusts that I saw mentioned above I was reading that proper fertilization, mowing height and not growing in shady areas can prevent rust. I probably should stick with what I know in warm season grasses but I'm tired of all the fertilzer it takes to make bermuda look good and the slow establishment of zoysia or st. augustine.

You would grow bermuda in Va Beach? How would it look in the winter? I have a relative that has a zoysia yard and it look great in the summer but from Nov to April it is solid yellow. You cannot overseed or do anything to it to keep the yard green. Between the Scotts and the Rebel Extend, which one's has the better Fescues in it? Maybe I should be more concerned with that. I can't find on the web which type of Fescue each has in it. The Va Tech web link ranks Fescues and KBG.

Bermuda would look like straw in the winter. The advantage of bermuda is right now. In Virginia beach the bermuda lawns look the best. My thought is when do you want your lawn at it's peak in March/April or in June-September? That answer will tell you if you'd be better with bermuda or fescue. I'm considering the new generation bluegrass/tall fescue mixes because of the better heat and disease tolerance of the bluegrasses after the fescue as it always does here thins out by 30 % or more.

At least with the Fescue/KGB you have a chance of staying green all year. With bermuda you are always going to have a yellow lawn for about 4-5 months. That is much longer than the mid to late summer problems you "might" have with fescue/KBG. In my opinion it is no contest.

I wish I could post some pictures of Fescue lawns in the area now. I think opinions are equally split here because you see about half warm season grass yards and half cool season yards with water running every morning when I go to work I might add. But all things aside if you look on the Ntep.org site and hit the virginia beach location for trials you'll notice there is no cool season trials. I think the reason is clear why they don't waste money testing them here. I'd like to see them try some of the next generation blue grasses to see if they can survive here. And the reason is the same why I don't use the Virginia tech web link is because they are in zone 5. Most of Central Virginia is zone 7. Why would anyone use research for choosing plants or grass that are two to three zones different than your climate? I'd be better off checking out Flordia State University's ratings since they are zone 8 also. They are probably more 8 B.

I would think Richmond gets hotter than Va Beach. You might have a bit more humidity. You also get more rain and probably a much later frost. We have a relative in Corolla NC and now that I think of it they might have Bermuda grass. They are right near the ocean so with they probably don't get too many hard frosts. The choice of planting Bermuda probably also involved the sandy soil.

Yeah you've about hit the nail on the head when comparing us to corolla. True it tends to get hotter in Richmond and Willamsburg than does it here. I sort of doubt your nights stay as warm as it does here. Being near the ocean we have less temperature difference from lows to highs year round. For example last night the low was 80 and today's high was 88. The USDA hardiness map that I'm referring to is the cold hardiness. Where our average low in a givin winter is 15 degrees, yours is probably near 5. I'm going to try to go with a cool season grass, with carefull management, I think I can have good results. I'm leaning towards thermal blue after talking to an area golf course superintendent that switched to thermal blue on the entrance to the golf club and he says it works great.

I just noticed the skepticism of quirkyquercus. How hot has it been this summer in Central VA? Well, in the Richmond area where I live, we've been far higher than 90 degrees almost every day since very early June. Quite a few days in June finished off at 103 and several in July hit 105. We've been over 100 more days than any of us like to count. Today it will be 97 and we'll have more of the same the rest of this last week in August. So, yes, it is hot here. And, no, we were not complaining about "ice" last winter. Instead it was snow. Many feet of the stuff. We often have an extreme climate here. This coupled with drought in most summers and poor native soil makes growing grass a bit more difficult than in many places. We do not usually obsess about perfecting our grass, but instead must usually focus on its survival.