Kentucky Browngrass?
That's not funny! hahahaha

First, you want to get a soil test. Contact your nearest county cooperative extension service if you need help with sampling instructions. Flash Player demonstration is here.

Also, ask them about plant diagnostics. I'm not able to find pathology lab information on their website. They will diagnose the lawn disease and you want to know for certain what it is you're dealing with. Many diseases colonize in the soil. The best defense against lawn disease is proper cultural practices and planting resistant grass varieties. I can't offer grass seed suggestions unless I know what disease you're battling.

One inch of water twice a week is still a little much and may be contributing to the lawn disease. The grass only needs 1 inch per week. During periods of heatwave and drought, divide that 1 inch in half and irrigate half an inch twice a week.

You don't say the last time you fertilized, but applying synthetic fertilizer too early in spring and in summer can be other contributing factors to disease. Scott's sells fine products, but their step program leaves a lot to be desired. I'm hoping you have not fertilized since May but following their step program, you probably fertilized within the last month.

Tilling is not recommended, but this site may be helpful. If I recall, the site does suggest tilling, but it's normally not desired.

Personally, I hate the idea of blending grass species, especially bluegrass and ryegrass, and there are technical reasons. Let us know the diagnostic results for recommendations.

I'm not familiar with Compro, so I wouldn't have an opinion. Perhaps someone else.

Hope I helped

Bestlawn, thanks for the reply. Sorry for the bad joke about the browngrass! :-)

Funny you would mention the soil test. Yesterday, I took soil samples from 6 different locations in the yard. I am mailing the sample to A&L Eastern Laboratories, Inc. I only took soil samples, no plant material. Should I bag up some grass as well and send in with the soil? I will report the findings upon their return to me. I called A&L Labs but they don't test for fungus. Is there another lab that would do both, the soil sample and the fungus test?

I will cut the duration of watering down to half but keep the 4 day schedule. Thanks for keeping me straight.

The last time I fertilized was about a month ago. So you are right. I set the speader on the lower setting according to the bag. It was the summer guard version of Scotts.

The reason I brought up the tilling of the soil is because the best looking grass in my yard is in the back yard where the drain tile was extended down the hill by a trencher. The trench path has the healthiest grass in the yard. I assumed it was because the otherwise hard soil was loosened by the trencher and allowed the grass to root easier.

As far as the mixture of seed goes, you would recommend only one or the other, not both? So all Bluegrass and no rye?

And lastly, Compro is a product that is "cleaned" human (I think) waste from a water treatment plant. It is somehow cleaned and mixed with other stuff. It made the sod take root very well and the grass looked great for the first three years. Best on the street. That was, until I overwatered and the various utility companies came through and put down all different types of seed.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I will post the results of the soil tests when they arrive.

Rich

rgillenjr, I'm sorry but I am not at all familiar with the area or the A&L Eastern Laboratories that you mention. I don't know if you're saying they are somehow associated. I was only trying to connect you with the cooperative extension service in your area. You can take your soil samples per soil test webpage instructions, and then take your disease samples to your nearest extension office. They will send it off for you. Here is their Plant Pathology website. Post haste so you can get results back in time for seeding.

"I will cut the duration of watering down to half but keep the 4 day schedule. Thanks for keeping me straight."
What 4 day schedule is that? Do you mean every 4th day?

What the tilling in the trench did was loosened the soil as you say. You can accomplish the same result by making sure the soil is well aerated. If by chance you don't want to rent a core aerator and do the work, you can try cheating with a liquid aeration product like Nitron.

Yes, I would recommend one species. In your area, either tall fescue or bluegrass. It's possible tall fescue would be best. I guess it depends on what you prefer.

Also, you'll want to follow the instructions outlined in the first response of this thread to help you manage and prevent disease in the future and apply corn meal once a month at 20 lbs/1000.

Bestlawns, I haven't received the results yet. It could take 10 - 14 days. I will post results upon receipt. I guess I didn't understand what the extension office is or what it does. I read their webpage and now I understand. I called them and they will test the plant material and soil for fungus but send the rest of the soil sample out for analysis.

As far a watering schedule, my irrigation system is set to water every 4th day. I will cut the length of time in half.

I do aerate every year in the Fall. Is this the proper time to do it? Should be it done in the Spring instead? Or twice a year? Too many decisions. The page you pointed me to where you outline the maintanence schedule says to aerate but doesn't say when. It is right after your #2 response to dethatch in September, so I can assume you mean to aerate at this time too.

The soil here in Northern Virginia is very hard, compacted clay. That's why I thought the tilling process might help. I will stick with core aerating.

I have thought a lot about grass species. I don't like the 'clumping' results that I see with the fescue. I will go with bluegrass. Can you recommend a dark green bluegrass? I want the best and don't really care about the extra money. I will spend it to get a better result. Where is the best place to buy it?

I should mention that most of my front yard receives full sun from 8:00 AM until about 5:00 PM. There is no shade until the sun goes behind the house.

I have to look around for the corn meal. I did try it once last year but didn't get any result with it. I only applied it once, not 20lbs/1000 sq ft a month as you suggest. I will do as you say and start applying it this weekend and each month after that.

Thanks for all the advice. You have been patient with me and I appreciate it. This is a great website!

Rich

I see a whole different problem. Too much P rye.

As I've mentioned on the board before a few years ago I overseeded my back yard with a mix of about 40 percent P rye and 60 percent fescue. But, the problem was the P rye comes up MUCH faster and grew faster and simply took over.

For the next few years I had a yard that looked GREAT from late September to April and then did exactly what you said, browned out, when the heat hit. Cooler wetter places might do better, but, a couple of folks on the board said they were going to try p rye, love it early, but have not been heard from since the hot weather arrived.

I finally just nuked mine with RU and planted fescue that would hold up a little more evenly early, mid and late season.

You can't beat P rye in the cool months, but in the "non"-cool months, it just is about the brownest stuff you can find.

Core aerate spring or fall. Your choice. But that's not a maintenance schedule though. It's just suggesting mechanical and cultural practices to help prevent disease. Maintenance schedule is outlined in red near the top of this thread.

I was hoping to hear the diagnosis before suggesting cultivars for planting. It's possible there are varieties resistant to that disease, so I would want to attempt to blend for resistance. You'll still be in time for planting.

Hey bestlawn,
I hope you are still seeing this thread.
I received the results of the soil sample finally. Below are the images of the results. I hope you can view them OK.

I would really like to rent a sod cutter and remove the old grass. This would accomplish two things. One would be to allow me to regrade the yard because it is so bumpy and has some low spots where the ground has settled. It also gets rid of the grass that I hate so much. I would like to reseed using all KBG and only one type, per your recommendation.

The only thing I don't know is if I do remove the sod, will the old grass still have enough roots to regrow and what about the fungus? I have not received the results of the plant material tests yet.

I know I need to start soon so any advice would be great on what the soil needs.

Many thanks!
Rich

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It is interesting that you are in northern VA yet have pH=7.3
I would start by following their recommendation for adding elemental sulphur. Getting the pH below 7.0 before reseeding (not under 6.5) will improve your chances.

You have phosphorus coming out the ears, so don't apply a starter fertilizer (with high phosphorus, it's the 2nd of the 3 numbers NPK on a fertilizer bag).

You say you have a sprinkler system. What you want to do with it is to water just when the soil needs it, and for about an inch at a time. Watch the grass and when it begins to look drought-stressed (a bit droopy, blades curling a bit, color looking a bit grayish, etc.), the grass begins to feel dehydrated, and when you walk across the grass you can still see the footprints a minute or two later (in the grass, not the dirt), then it's time to water. You'll notice that if you try to stick a big screwdriver about eight inches into the soil, it will be easy after you water and rather difficult when you need to water, which is another good measure of when to water. The point, here, is that you'll need to water more often (maybe even every four days) during hot dry windy weather, maybe once a week during typical summer weather, and not very often during cooler weather. Rain counts as watering, so measure it too (if you keep a can sitting out in the open somewhere, you'll be able to see how much any rainshower amounted to).

You could kill the existing mix of grass with roundup. You almost certainly don't want to till the dirt, just fill in the low spots (holes) to level. Either turf-type tall fescue (TTTF) or elite types of kentucky bluegrass (KBG) will work. TTTF will be easier to maintain. KBG will be finer textured and darker green. Virginia (jointly with Maryland) publishes a useful list each year of recommended cultivars, which you can find by doing a web search.

Well, the local cooperative extension office can not find my grass sample so it appears they lost it. I was hoping to have the results by now so "bestlawn" can suggest a remedy. I will have to bring another sample in on Tuesday.

At this point it is getting pretty late in the year and I am afraid I will run out of time to plant. I plan to rent a sod cutter on September 22 and remove all the sod. I have applied two applications of fungicide over the last month to kill the fungus in the soil and on the grass. I have read that putting down corn meal after fungicide will render the corn meal useless. Is this true? I am concerned that if I remove the sod and add topsoil, the grass will grow fine until next summer but then the fungus will return and kill the new grass. Then I am no better off than I am today.

Can the fungicide be spread on the soil after the sod is removed? Will it inhibit the seed from germinating?

By the way, the reason for the sod cutter is because of the numerous types of grass growing in my yard.

One more question, should I start using Round Up to kill everything now if preparation for the sod cutter in 3 weeks? Or is it too late for that? I want to kill the weeds and the crabgrass (roots and all) before removing the sod.
Sorry for the numerous questions and as always, thanks for the advice.

tagged, thanks for the recommendations!!! Is there a brand of fertilizer with some N, no P and some K?

Thanks again!

Rich,

If you kill the existing grass with Roundup, you don't need to remove the sod. Just mow it as low as you can, then aerate or slitseed.

And remember that the previous recommendation for an inch of water at a time is after the lawn is established. For seeding, you want 2-3 times a day, just enough to keep the soil moist.

darius, thanks for the reply. I guess I said above the reason for the sod cutter was due to the different types of grasss growing. I left out the part about how the yard is uneven, and has several low and high spots. I wanted to get the sod up, bring in some top soil and regrade the yard. I have access to the equipment (brother-in-law) so that is not a problem. When you look at my yard, it is all bumpy. Too bumpy for an aerator to fix. I have tried several years in a row. I know I can just spread soil on top of the dead sod but I am willing to go the extra step and remove the sod.

I did adjust my sprinkler system to water once a week and on long enough to get an inch of water on the lawn, as suggested earlier by bestlawn. Although now, since I am going to kill everything, there's no sense in watering anymore.

So here is my schedule: tomorrow, start the Roundup. (not sure how many applications it will take). On September 22, rent a sod cutter and slit seeder. September 23, spread top soil and roll, not compact, the soil and slit seed the same day. Water several times a day, enough to keep the soil damp, for two weeks???. Not sure how long to keep that water schedule going. Any help on that would be great. The seed will be all KBG, just not sure what cultivar yet. I was hoping to have results of the grass samples back but I have to start over on that on Tuesday.

Any recommendations on covering the seed with anything, like straw? I don't really want to put straw down, but I will if it is the best thing to do.

Thanks, look forward to hearing from you!!!

I've never used a sod cutter, so this may be a dumb question. But if you are going to remove the sod, why bother to kill it first?

It's actually not a stupid question. And one I have thought about a lot. The reason is I want to make sure the weeds and fescue and other unwanted grasses are dead, roots and all. I am concerned that if I just remove the top 2" of soil without killing everything first, the roots could possibly be left behind and start to regrow. Then I would be right back where I started. But, if I use Roundup on the entire lawn first, the the entire plant will die and not return, or at least, much less chance of surviving.

Hopefully that all makes sense. I know it sounds like a lot of work but I am willing to do it to have a fresh start without worring about what will be left behind (like weeds).

The only thing I will have to worry about after the grass starts to grow, is my maintenance practices, watering, fertilizing..........With the help of this forum, I hope to be successful. I will post a picture of my front lawn tomorrow so you can see. The yard is not that big anyway.

OK, now I am getting nervous. I have read several posts where others have already seeded and have grass growing. I have started the Roundup but will not be able to start the restoration of the lawn until September 22.

Is this too late to start seeding? I am in Northern Virginia and the temps here have still been 90 degrees or more in the afternoon.

Is this too late to start seeding?

No! What you're seeing is people who, like me, are very, very impatient and/or live north of you. That's the foothills of the Appalachian mountains in Pennsylvania for me.

Roundup now, restore the weekend of September 22 is just fine. I pulled up the climate data for Fairfax, VA (furthest north city I could name offhand) and it seems like your average first frost date runs toward the end of October (if I'm reading a set of averages correctly, that is). That's time enough.

Growth will be slower than the early birds' lawns are, but it'll be along. Patience in our case is required, in yours it'll need to be Herculean.

Thanks morpheuspa!!! Fairfax is only a few miles from me so that was a perfect city. You have made me feel much better about my chances. I will post some pictures as I go.

I thought I would show what I was starting with before the Roundup goes on. You can see the yard is small. You can also see the various stuff that is growing. A couple types of Fescue, Blue Grass, Rye and some weeds. It's hard to tell how bumpy the yard is from this picture, but it is.

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I also found this web in several spots on the lawn. Is this a "sod web" and if so, what problems will it cause and how do I get rid of it?

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