To piggyback on mynextlawn's question: What percentages are people typically getting of each cultivar in the "Magnificent 3"?

Thanks!!!

Hi there, MyNextLawn, and welcome to the Lawn Care Forum.

I'm not sure what you mean by "fall apart during the next year." Please elaborate. Seeding success begins with the soil, so please get a soil test at least two weeks before starting your seeding effort. More advice for success will follow later in another post, but I did want to point that out. Please follow it because I am very concerned why that would happen more than once and wouldn't want it to happen this time. I would like to rule out disease, so please inform on that subject. Could that be the reason?

Knowing that you've been sowing different seeds and purchasing from store shelves, please tell me you plan to start from scratch. I don't know if you absolutely have to because I don't know what's in your lawn or how it looks. I can only imagine and that won't be a very big stretch. It would be best to start over, and I cannot stress that enough.

This blend is based on there being no particular disease to combat, but has good overall disease resistance. If there is a disease you battle in your lawn or one that is prevalent in your area, please let me know. I might have to recompose the blend for you.

Equal parts of each
Blue Velvet
Moonlight
Bedazzled

You can purchase all three from
Williams Lawn Seed wls.com 800-457-9571
Tell him you want sod-quality seeds. If he says they are not sod quality then you don't want them. Some things he does not have sod quality but I don't know if that applies to everything he sells.

If Williams does not have sod quality, I'm afraid you'll have to purchase from two different places.

Purchase Blue Velvet from
Charles C. Hart Seed Company
860-529-2537 ask for Jim
Tell him you want sod-quality seeds

Purchase Moonlight and Bedazzled from
Pawnee Buttes Seed pawneebuttesseed.com
800-782-5947 ask for Glenn
Tell him you want sod-quality seeds

Sorry, I didn't even see you there, BoatBoy24. Are you sure the Magnificent 3 is the right blend for you there in DC?

bestlawn,

First of all, thank you for such a quick response.

Now, I'll try to add a little more detail to my original post. My soil is pretty hard and compact so I aerate in the spring and fall. By "fall apart during the next year" I mean that my lawn usually begins the spring looking pretty good, but by June or July everything starts turning brown. I have been using the Scotts program for several years, which includes early spring and summer fertilization, which I am now realizing is not always such a good thing. Maybe I am just burning it up with fertilizing at the wrong times of the year. I don't belive it is disease that is killing it every year, because the brown seems to appear over the entire lawn evenly. I would expect a disease to start in a small area and spread if not corrected, but I could be wrong about that. Looking at the local university extension website I found that they list Algae and Anthracnose as common turfgrass diseases in Missouri.

I will definitely be starting from scratch with the part of the lawn I intend to renovate this year. I hope to do the front this year and the back next year. I can't do the entire lawn at once because I don't have a way to keep it all irrigated like it needs to be. It is also easier to talk the wife into killing the existing grass when I explain that I am only doing part of the lawn. I guess she figures that no matter what happens we will at least have grass in part of the yard. ;-)

I would like to move away from my current fertilizing program towards a more organic process. I figure since I am going to be starting over this is a good time to make the switch. To get off to a good start I am thinking I should add compost to the soil after aerating this fall to try to add some organic matter. Can I do this at the same time I put down the seed?

Hopefully, I have answered all of your questions. Again, thanks for your help.

How much rain do you get in the summer? Your lawn needs about an inch of water a week from a combination of rain and watering you do to stay green. If it doesn't rain, you need to supply all of the water and it probably takes longer than you think to get an inch of water down. To test how much water you're putting down, put some empty tuna cans down the next time you water. After you finish watering, measure the water in the tuna can. If it's not an inch, you're probably not watering enough.

If you want a grass that will stay green without any additional water, you're probably going to have to go with something like buffalo grass and/or blue grama.

It gets pretty dry during the summer. When I do water I usually water for about 90 minutes in each spot. I don't know how much water that puts down, but I was trying to go with to much rather than not enough. I'll use the can test next time, and find out exactly how long I should be watering. Thanks for the tip.

Mynextlawn  Transition slowly into Organics. Do your compost application this year immediately after aeration and seeding. Fertilize well this fall. Next spring use a good pre-emergent weed control, then begin organic lawn care program in earnest. Organically maintained lawns look the best. If you are not able to compost this year, topdressing can take place anytime. Mulch mow your autumn leaves. Here is a FAQ with lots of valuable information

Here is a link that might be useful: Organic lawn care FAQ

Thanks billhill. That brings up another question. Now that I have learned that all grass seed is not equal in quality I wonder the same thing about compost. Does it make a difference if I buy my compost from Lowes or Home Depot, or should I get it from a nursery?

Okay, that puts everything into perspective. Whew! I got scared for a moment there.

Your lawn only goes dormant when it turns brown like that. It's a defense mechanism to keep itself alive. When moisture and favorable temps are available, it greens back up. BP explained irrigation to keep it green and prevent dormancy. Don't try to correct one way or another though. Too much water is more detrimental than not enough. Keep to the one inch once a week and you'll be fine. On especially hot days, give it a sprinkle to cool it off just like you want to be cooled off. During a heat wave, divide the one inch by half twice a week. So, irrigate half an inch one day and the other half 3 or 4 days later. In any case you want to preserve water or are on township restriction and you do let the grass go dormant, it still wants moisture so give it a sprinkle ever so often during drought. Just a sprinkle won't green it back up again.

You can purchase compost from anywhere. In fact, you might not have to purchase it at all. Many cities offer it for free through the works department (water and sewage department). That'll do you, too. If you do buy it, be careful not to get dehydrated manure or a mixture of that and compost. Just want to clarify from above, you really do want to topdress your seeds with compost or peat moss.

Now that a great question. Good compost can be hard to find. I hate the bagged composted manure from the big box stores. In fact no one can decide on a good definition for good compost. I make my own. Most people choose not to do this. I think the best source is from a nursery, purchased in bulk. The normal application rate is one cubic yard per 1000 square ft of lawn. You should check it out before you buy. It should be dark brown or black, light and crumbly, and have a very earthy aroma. There is a whole gardenweb forum devoted to composting

Here is a link that might be useful: Soil and Compost Forum

Thanks all for the info. Now that you mention it I believe my city does offer compost for free or a minimal charge. I'll check that out, and if it doesn't look like good stuff I can go to the local nursery. I know they will have some good stuff.

One more question. I promise this is the last one. . . today anyway. :-) How late is too late to put down the seed? In the past I have overseeded around September 1. Should I be dropping the seed earlier to give it more time to get established?

Thanks again.

I also am in STL with the same problems. I replaced entire front yard with KBG sod per nursery recs. and every summer it becomes evenly thin and brown even with weekly waterings. I overseed each spring and fall. Would the Magnificant 3 work in an area that is shaded (east facing, gets about 4 hours sun in the morning, then all shade) and be able to tolertae the extreme heat of summer (up to 104 degrees). I am looking for an aggresisve gorwer that fill-ins spots and can tolerate the heat and shade. Thanks!!!!!

If the compost in your town is anything like mine, it might look more like mulch. In that case, you will have to sift it. I did this by dumping two shovels-full at a time into a milk crate. The crate had about 1/4-1/2 inch holes on the bottom. Then I sifted it before putting it into the wheelbarrow. It took a while, but was very worth it.

I asked the guy from the town why "leaf compost" looked like mulch, and he said because people throw non-leaves into their leaf piles. Therefore, when the leaves get shredded, so too does the sticks and branches. They don't give it enough time to compost away into nothing.

However, once I sifted it, it was great. The areas where I applied the most compost look great. You can literally walk my lawn and tell which areas received the most compost, as they had the most growth from my overseeding by far.

Tamigal, tall fescue may be best for you.
Begin a new post for suggestions.

rutgers1,

That is exactly what the compost was like from my city. Big hunks of wood. Looked a lot like mulch. I thought about trying to sift it, but decided it wasn't worth it. I'm afraid I would have had to sift 10 square yard just to get 2 square yards of usable compost. In the end I just bought it somewhere else.

I think one thing to keep in mind about the St. Louis area is the incredible summer heat. (I was there a couple of weeks ago and it was consistantly over 100 degrees every day for the entire week.)

My mom's family is from Jefferson County (Lemay, Arnold, etc) and I used to spend a couple of weeks there in the summer as a kid. Saying it gets hot there is an understatement.

It's much hotter there than anything I've ever experienced on the east coast (and they don't have an ocean to escape to...)

I think keeping a KBG lawn going strong there is going to take extra vigilance (and water) than it would in many places.

That's a good point turf_toes. It certainly does get hot here. I'll find out next year whether I am able to keep a KBG lawn going. I planted on 8/26, and as of yesterday (day 8) I am starting to see sprouts in many parts of the yard. I was excited as I didn't expect to see anything until about 14 days. I hope it continues to spread. I am cautiously confident that I will be able to keep it properly watered with my new sprinkler setup.