If the trees were not vigorous going into winter they would be much more vulnerable to winter kill. If the soil is too wet in the fall ditto.
If your soil is stickey with clay you'll need to grow your trees on berns a couple of feet up. You can ammend like hell but be sure to do it in a wide area on the top 14" of soil or so- maybe as widely as 8' squared. Compost will probably be the ticket unless you want to bring in about a cubic yard of sand per tree, anything less won't help and will supposedly create concrete (I'll believe that when I see it).

Advice against amendments is based on 2 things, I believe. One is that putting a different texture amendment in a planting hole can create either a soggy spot or a dry spot due to textural differences and the affect of cappillary flow of water from coarse soil to fine. 2 is that when you're growing a tree that will become very large you aren't likely to include enough amendment to really help. Fruit trees aren't usually that big.

Mulch should help a great deal. Think of the soil of the forest and try to duplicate that as much as possible. This is what mulching does over time, creating a kind of parfait of distinct layers from very airy and light on top, down to whatever the subsoil is, often clay. Put your hands in a forest soil some time and you'll see what I mean.

Make sure your pH is around the mid 6's to 7 and maybe do a complete soil analysis as long as you've started. You can use your cooperative extension or your agricultural state university for this kind of help.

Note that Harvestman's 14" is not attainable with most tillers. I'd even go deeper with things to loosen but not enhance the fertility.
Maybe a trencher worked as a tiller in a crosshatch pattern with generous amounts of peat and then some time for the worms to distribute everything.

Clay is very fertile because of its nature so you shouldn't need to add fertility at least not without a test or seeing obvious deficiencies. The problem is it doesn't drain and packs, I bet your rootstock wasn't aggressive enough to battle with packed clay (you didn't say what size the trees were).

Gypsum is a fix for clay. Search "gypsum clay soil" and you should get some good reading.

Don't count on Gypsum to help. Only works on western sodic soils I hear. I wouldn't recommend peat- poorly drained clay tends to be acidic anyway which peat will increase and peat breaks down quickly, whereas compost is relatively stable so you'll get much better payback longterm for similar effort. I only use peat for blueberries.

Sorry Mykl, but these are my opinions.

The trees were small and about 42" tall on EMLA 7 rootstock (I believe). I had researched what root stock does well in heavier soil and I think that is the one I ended up for the apples. I don't recall what rootstock the peaches were on. I forgot to mention that.

Personally, I wish I could buy the trees in big pots, but the nurseries only seem to sell the apples I can buy at the grocery store. Those roots look really pathetic when they arrive bareroot. I've planted strawberries with a comparable root system (at least it seemed like it) and they only have to support a small strawberry plant!

The soil test I had done a number of years ago said my ph was 5.9. I think that was about 8 years ago, so it has been awhile. I haven't done anything in that area of the yard that would cause a change though.

Sounds like I need to get in there and loosen it up without amending too much. I may use some peat and sand just around where the roots will start out so I don't get air pockets. I'll also look into the gypsum as well. I recently invested in a Mantis tiller that others have said is useful for digging holes for trees. I'll see how far down I can get it to go. I don't think my husband will go for the trencher.

Is there a particular root stock others have successfully used in heavier soil?

Harvestman--I didn't see your last post before I sent mine. Would bagged compost from the box stores work? Unfortunately I don't get enough from my compost bin to use. I've heard the bagged stuff isn't great, but would it work to loosen things up?

I don't know where you live, but some towns compost leaves and lawn clippings and give the compost away. You can also rake compost from underneath leaves in the woods, especially under oaks and white pines- wonderful stuff,light and fluffy. Landscape yards also carry it in bulk sometimes and often let you shovel it in back of a small truck or into bags. Composted cow manure in bags is also good and usually sweet pH wise.

M7 is not your best bet. I suggest you go with MM 111. Order trees from Adams County Nursery now for next spring(google them) and you will be pleased with selection. For questionable conditions bare root is better than potted. You can spread the roots fairly shallow if need be.

Thanks--I'll look into what I can get my hands on. I'll also look into the MM 111.

I've always been envious of those communities that have the free composted leaves/clippings!

"Sorry Mykl, but these are my opinions."

I don't mind different opinions.
I wish making my clay acidic was as simple as adding peat, I gave up on blueberries and hydranga. With as many bags of leaves, manure and kitchen scraps plus bails of peat that my garden has eaten over the years I'd say it's about the same for how long they last but the compost from a bin would have more fertility than peat.
Peat is composted plant material. Fill your bin with sphagnum moss, pack it down and don't turn it, leech everything out of it with a lot of water and you'd end up with something similar so it should last a similar amount of time.
But my goal in my clay yard isn't to fix the soil permanently for trees, I wouldn't dig deep enough or bring in enough material to do that. It's to loosen up enough for long enough to get the tree started. Once established the roots could probably bust concrete.

I heard gypsum helping to leech salt is a beneficial side effect of breaking up clay with gypsum and that it only works well in clay. It also leeches out other things like aluminum build up.
I can't say I've ever tried it intentionally, it's one of those things I keep meaning to do, but so is double digging my garden.

growing_in_oh,
I agree about the bareroot trees. I have always bought from Stark and they used to prune the roots back to nothing on every tree. I can't say I've ever had a problem but the trees sure take off faster when they are shipped with feeder roots. I think they've figured that out because 6 out of 8 Stark trees I planted this year had feeder roots left on.

I'm not into all the rootstock stuff but I was thinking if you had dwarf that semi-dwarf would do better and I think that goes along with what havestman said about 7 vs 111.

And just so you're clear on it, you rent the trencher. I would probably only bother with that if I was putting a big orchard in packed clay. I thought that's what you were doing but with the Mantis I'm not so sure now.

Peat is not actually composted because it is formed in bogs so the low oxygen and acidic conditions keep it from really breaking down, but mix it with aerated soil and those micros and even macros go right to work on it. In a few months it will shrink to a fraction of its initial volume in warm aerated conditions. You just look at it and you can see all the cellulose pieces intact. However, if it isn't well mixed and never absorbs moisture it remains unaltererd for years but doesn't accomplish much for the plants growing in it. Their roots just grow around these dry clumps.

IMO you're wrong about the compost, anaerobic or aerobic doesn't matter for the qualification. Fairly right on everything else, especially dry peat is hard to get wet.
The main reason I use peat for my tree holes is it lacks nutrients where my compost is high in nutrients.
Most of the stuff I've heard against peat has been propaganda by pseudo-environmentalists who decided anaerobic bog gas was a valuable resource and peat wasn't renewable so take what you hear against it with a grain of salt.

But I really want to say there's a good chance that the gypsum thing does work. I remembered I had some drywall I left out to deteriorate instead of filling a landfill. Under the pile of gypsum I could push an aluminum arrow into the ground easily and fluff it up without coming close to bending the arrow.
Over where I recently dug for new grapes I could hardly scratch the surface with a garden claw.

Of course it doesn't matter if compost is created through anaerobic or aerobic conditions as far as definition and the state of being composted isn't an absolute condition- decompostion continues on humus untill it is completely mineralized and carbo-free, but to be considered compost, plant matter must be more broken down than peat moss as I understand it.

Anyone who has grown potted plants in a peat based potting mix knows how unstable it is as it shrinks in the pot. No definition of compost I've ever heard of would include peat moss- it just contains too much ready to consume cellulose. The point of the acidity and anaerobic conditions of a bog is that it greatly delays the decomposition process so that peat is barely altered plant matter.

But definintions aren't the point here at all, it is the efficacy of peat moss to improve the tilth and aeration of clay soil. The point that I believe Mykl makes is that peat will allow trees to become established before it breaks down and once established they will adjust, which for all I know might be true. Because I was steered against this as a solution in hort-school, etc. I've never tried it- opting for more stable amendments instead.

My attitudes about peat moss are not consciously affected by environmental issues and I use many bales of peat moss in my nursery to make my own potting mix.

Kristen,

I agree with the advice you've been given, but I want to cover some basics. Quite frankly, you shouldn't be having such a difficult time establishing trees. Here are some basic fundamentals I will mention:

1. You talk about clay soil. Are you sure you don't have water drainage problems? Do you see any standing water, anytime during the growing season? You're planting your trees the same height as the nursery, right?

2. Are you removing all the grass/weed competition from the young trees. As was mentioned, mulch is an excellent way to do this. However, if you soil is water-logged in the spring and you add mulch, it will be more water-logged. For wet soils, you can add mulch after the soil starts to dry out. If you don't want to add mulch, use roundup to kill the grass around the trees (just don't get Round up on the trunk of the young trees).

3. Are the trees getting too dry in the summer? Clay can dry out quickly in heat. Give the trees a good drink every couple weeks in hot dry weather. Again mulch does a wonderful job of preserving soil moisture, and requires less/no watering.

4. Lastly, since your trees have such poor vigor, add a little chemical fertilizer. Just use it as a top dress. I sometimes use straight urea for a fertilizer on new trees, but any fertilizer high in nitrogen will help you here. Throw a couple handfuls of high N fertilizer around the base of your tree, preferably just before a rain. Do this immediately after planting, and again a month later.

Your problem is not the wind, nor bare root trees. I think if you observe basic cultural practices you'll get your trees established. Think food (a little fertilizer), water (but not too much water), and reducing competition below the soil line (other plant/tree roots) and above the soil line (shade, if you have it).

If you want to go deeper, a soil test, as was mentioned, is most helpful.

Good points olpea. There's so much involved in the success of a planting it's impossible to accurately diagnose on-line. Perhaps what you really should to is get a consultaion from a local horticulturist or even just a competent gardener. What I said about planting in berms would help a great deal if your issue is drainage. I assumed that was the conern when you spoke of clay.

I do disaggree with the idea that mulch necessarily compounds drainage problems. I have found it to have the opposite affect because it encourages a lot of earthworm acitivity creating a kind of aerobic swiss cheese affect beneath it as worms come up to feed and go back down. It also allows roots to develop at the surface of the soil where there is air.

There are many kinds of mulch which can create different results- for instance, shredded wood can mat up and cause problems while chips don't do this. Mowed grass can get soppy, but if it is thoroughly dried it may remain fluffy and fairly light. Gardening can be complicated.

Kristen: Had to ask, did you stake or otherwise support your trees that didn't make it?

Michael

I think the two most key points have already been mentioned...
pH and weed competition

You said you had the soil analyzed and the pH was about 5.9 but you haven't done anything to address that. Someone said (think it was harvestman) that it needs to be mid 6's to 7 pH. This is super important. If pH isn't right, the trees cannot uptake the nutrients. You can have all the nutrients necessary but the trees can't get them due to pH imbalance.

Keep weeds clear about 6 foot diameter around the new tree. Its a great benefit to them.

Don't worry so much about the clay. My soil is all clay and I didn't amend with anything. I read that the peat moss decomposes too quickly and leaves dangerous air pockets in the soil which can allow the tender young roots to freeze in your ohio winter. BUT I just read that, I can't speak from experience.
I got the pH right with multiple soil tests. I planted bare root trees on bud9 and mm111. They are doing very well.

Whatever your method of weed control, just make sure there is no competition. I use leaves and grass clippings but drainage rock around the base of the tree to deter voles.

Example of eliminating weed competition...

{{gwi:97357}}

here is the pic showing weed/grass free rings around fruit trees:

{{gwi:97358}}

I am really glad that most people don't think it's the wind that is doing these trees in, because that was going to be the hardest thing to change.

I did stake the trees with those green metal fence posts, but to be honest, I don't think it would have made any difference because they never got any bigger than sticks. I kept them weed free but only about 18" in all directions from the trunk so it sounds like that was really inadequate. I was careful to plant them the recommended amount based on the graft mark (I don't recall if I could tell where they were grown in the nursery, but I remember being careful about the graft because of suckering) I watched the area for drainage for almost a year before I put them in, and the ground was not soggy. We also have a much lower spot of ground (kind of a swale) that water drains to in the spring. The trees were planted well above that area. I don't think it is a drainage problem, but I did not ever perform one of those drainage tests (dig a hole, fill with water, time how long it takes to drain). I also made sure I watered during dry weather, but that area out there really cracks once the sun has baked it. It is difficult to get the ground well watered at the end of July.

I had mulched with wood chips (there was no sign of damage from voles, etc.) and we have cats that seem to keep the little critters in check. I think that when I put in the new trees I will use gravel around the base. Our property gets baled so I have access to plenty of hay and I use it around my blueberries, so I'll use that around the outside of the gravel. That should help with water issues also.

What a great orchard you have thomis! The trees that I planted NEVER had that many leaves. I was anxious about deer coming along and chomping the puny amount of green that I did have and the tree dying from no foliage!

I was afraid to use fertilizer since ACN says that fertilizer is one of the leading causes of fruit tree death. It sounds like I need to verify the soil ph once I till everything up and go from there with that issue and probably use some fertilizer. My house is smack dab in the middle of a former farm field. I imagine the soil is probably depleted to start with.

Just so I have an idea, what kind of growth can I expect the first year so I know whether the tree is getting established at an appropriate rate and can survive the winter?

Thanks once again. I didn't know whether our site was just not going to support fruit trees, but you all have cleared up that issue. I appreciate the help and advice!

No, I didn't say pH is a probable cause of failure. Fruit trees will grow in a fairly wide range of soil pH so unless you live in blueberry country or have some kind of freakish condition that drives the pH above I don't know what, but past 8, pH shouldn't be life or death. We tinker with pH to create optimum conditions, particularly for the fruit itself. For apples it has a lot to do with storage. A pH close to 7 is supposed to help the fruit obtain more calcium which helps prevent some of storage problems that can plague commercial apple production and even frustrate a home grower who wants good storage apples.

Kristen,

From you're last post, it sounds like you have most of the basics covered. At this point, I would try the N rich fertilizer to establish your trees. A moderate amount of fertilizer will not cause tree mortality, as long as it is not placed in the planting hole.

Also I am getting more convinced you need a good soil test. A&L labs can do one for around $20. You may discover you have a toxic level of some element, or a deficient amount of an essential element. If you wish, you can google A&L and send them an email inquiry. They will respond with exact pricing.