Hi Angie

This has happened to me, and I was quite upset over it..I declined the offer, and have decided NOT to trade with people that arent being honest with their trades...and YES these people are "profiting" as far as i am concerned...telling people to mail more postage than is needed, in my eye, is profit.

I think I know who you are talking about, since I have seen them posting ALOT...

I think if we all STOP accepting the offers, then they would have to STOP doing it..I just get upset because a lot of newbies fall into their "trap"

Hope all is well with you..talk soon

flwrs4ever
Kym

This has happened to me, and I was quite upset over it..I declined the offer

I too have declined in the past.

Possibly the thing to do, would be to post something such as this.

After receiving your email and finding out the postage will be specify amount here, I have decided not to take you up on your sasbe offer. Specify amount here is just too much for one (or whatever amount) pack of seeds.

Thank you though.

That would expose to others that the postage requested is excessive. What do you all think?

(rbb) Sue

I think it's a good idea Sue,because like Kym said,alot of newbies respond and dont know that it is excessive.So if someone posts what you suggested then the people who read it would therefore have a choice before they get the email asking for so many stamps,maybe some wouldnt mind because it may be something they desperatley want and cant find anywhere else,so they may still take this person up on their offer,but at least the facts would be laid out and a full understanding would be had before there is any contact.Alot of people will just go through with it in order not to upset someone.I have talked to a couple of members that said they felt like it was too much postage but just went ahead and sent that time, but would never do it again.And a newbie may not know any better at that point,if this is a first SASE offer for them they may think that is just the way it is done and I bet that is what this person counts on.I dont see too many repeat customers and most who reply are new,so it seems the majoriy that are taken advantage of are people that dont know that it is happening to them until it's too late,don't they call that a con? I am not throwing stones, I just think it fits the definition of what this person is doing.Besides, if this person wants to make a profit there are alot of other places to do that like, say maybe,....ebay?

Last year I was a newbie and had some who expected extra stamps. At that time I did not realize that was a No-No!

Peggy

Sue, I think that's a great idea.

So with the crazy postage problems going on, how do we now determine what would be an approximate correct postage amount?

As a long time member of several years, I have always given my best guess as to what the postage would be. Most times it was correct within a few cents. If I was wrong and had to add more postage it was at my expense, and never thought twice about it.

But this problem now with postage, how do we figure out what we think is the correct postage to send?

how about some suggestios for the following seed amounts

1 -5 packets
5-10 packets
10-15 packets
15-20 packets
More than 20 packets

I haven't posted for trades yet this year, but will be within the next week and will have a huge amount of offers for SASBE.

So, I need an idea about postage from some that have been trading since the postage increase and it would be a great help to others.

So fill me in on what you think about the above postage price for the number of packets.

Fran

Fran, I've sent 15 packs for 3 stamps, right from my house (and not going to the PO).

On the topic of this kind of con, it is not kosher here and I would support posting a response to the thread for the safety of the newbies. It's not quite the ol' fashioned "bait and switch" but more like a "bait and shift". Get interest, change the terms, rely on the loyalty/naivite` of the newbie, exploiting their commitment to do what they signed up for, and gouge them -- even if it's just a little bit, it sours the whole community here and can turn away wonderful newbies.

At this point, I personally see SABSE offers like this: In order to qualify as a good deal for the reciever, it has to be for more than one pack (unless it's a harder to find thing). A bubble envie to the offer-er costs 82 cents, and then another 82 cents to send back....more if the offer-er's PO is a fussy one (could go as high as $2.10 in total). And to be a good deal for the offer-er, it has to be a good deal for the reciever, otherwise why bother doing it at all.

True profit is not cool, and not allowed. Send a bonus stamp if you'd like, just like you might send a bonus pack of seeds in a trade. But to ask for extra stamps, in the post, or worse yet, after the post -- is unacceptable.

Back out of these kinds of things, Newbies.

--Tina

Fran,

One can only guess what one's post office chooses to charge, as many of them are still clueless...but that is another topic for the postage thread, imho. Don't even get me started.

I don't want to hijack this thread with opening that can of worms.

I am lucky to have a postage scale, and to know exactly what something costs, and also my PO is on the same and right page with me...we think.

One really could not guesstimate too well for larger quantities of seeds as it would likely throw it over the less than 3/4" requirement to go as a big letter, or big 'flat' and would then go to a parcel and higher costs.
I'd think it would however to safe maybe to post what a small quantity of seeds would be, particularly if the sender knew to distribute and tape them down in place in the envelope so they would not shift and go over the 3/4" requirement.

Sue...who got started on the 'correct' postage thing again

This is silly. And ingratious too.

If you're not trading you're getting free seeds. Postage to mail them is up to the person who's giving you the seeds. You're complaining about how stingy you want to be--look long and hard in the mirror and think about what you're saying. Greed is a terrible thing.

I ask people to put two stamps on a SASE, I provide the bubblewrap liner so you don't have the extra expense of sending a bubble-mailer.

Trudi, no one is complaining about paying for postage on an sabse. I see that in your sabse offers, you aren't doing what we're talking about, so I'm not sure what has been misunderstood.

The primary issue here is when someone offers an sabse publicly, and then surprises people privately asking for 6 extra stamps (or the like) for 1 pack of seeds. This raises questions regarding --

No selling of seeds, as it isn't going to require all those stamps to send the pack.

That the offerer didn't indicate this in the public post, so hmmm, is it to avoid the question of whether it's selling or giving.

And in the end, the seasoned traders would back out of a wierd thing like this, but a newbie would think it was "just the way things are". And that's not nice. And it reflects on the whole community.

Overall, I prefer to trade. My tangent issue is that, no, personally I am not interested in sending for an sabse offer for 1 pack of seeds. (Doesn't mean I've never done it - for something that I really wanted.) This has nothing to do with ingratiousness, and everything to do with not spending $1-$2 in postage for one pack when I might be able to trade for it later. When I have gotten any sabse, I am always grateful.

This is the same thing as traders preferring to trade for multiple packs instead of just one -- regardless of it being a trade, it's still the (now even higher) postage for one pack.

On these same lines, when I offer up SABSEs, I specifically do it for multiple packs, because I am not comfortable providing a free seed pack that then costs the newbie a buck or two. I'd rather send them 6+ packs for the same cost. I find doing it this way to be a "more comprehensive generousity" -- neither stingy nor greedy.

Bottom line on the primary issue here is that if the postage requested is a ridiculous amount, someone should protect the newbies. It is not stingy or greedy for them to want to avoid being exploited. If someone is posing as generous in order to be exploitative, we should do something about it on that thread.

Yes it is up to the person offering the seed to determine how much postage is needed. However, if they ask for six stamps and only use two and keep four for themselves, then that is wrong. Period. If you ask for extra stamps or anything else to help fund your SASBE offers then maybe you need to move to another site where you can sell your seed. Read the forum rules.
In the SASBE offer I had, I told everyone to send two stamps but send three if they wanted ten or more packs of seed. I would weigh the bubble envelopes and if they were over one ounce I used the third stamp. If it was less than one ounce I used two stamps and sent any extra stamps back.
I did this until I started having trouble with my post office. I can take a bubble envelope in that should cost .80 cents and they charge between .57 and $1.13. It just depends on the person working that day.
I am so tired of argueing with the postal workers that I have changed the postage amount I require. I know the amount I ask for is more than needed but if I receive three or four stamps, I will use what is sent and not keep any for myself.
Jim

"Too much" is more than you're personally willing to put out. If that's the case then you just move on to another offer, something that you find acceptable. It's a two-way street.

You're going to be hard pressed to find a website with free membership and not find people from time to time willing to take advantage of each other. It's just the way it goes. Keep in mind that works both ways, too, there's both givers and receivers that do this.

Post a friendly reminder of the rules on SASE's if you're concerned about violations.

This sense of obligation to coddle the newbies goes a bit to far at times. Just because you are new at gardening doesn't mean you are a complete idiot. Treating people this way tends to foster an influx of people that can't seem to get out of their own way. How many times does someone have to go over and over and over how to unblock an email address? Newbies really can read, they can follow simple directions, they can do math. If they spend $4 for a coneflower sase then so be it. If it was truly 'too much' they wouldn't. They might think that's a better deal than buying an $8 plant, who knows? Is $4 really going to break someone (and if so what are they doing answering these things in the first place)?

We don't know what motivates people to post the sase offers. I remember in years past, it was a group of mentally imbalanced posters in some crazy competion about who was the most generous with their offers. It was all about pride and one-upping each other. How ugly that is and how trival people can become. There are enough people giving here that have no personal or financial motivation to more than offset these few that may seem like bad apples. The newbies will survive!

I was just reading above about how expensive it is getting for someone to mail a sase back and forth. If you're answering multiple ads, that really adds up in the long run. This is a little off-topic but it may be a way for newbies to avoid having to do sases in the first place. The big swaps on the Round Robin forum are a prime way to obtain a nice variety of seeds for a limited cost. There are a few on-line seed companies that offer seeds in bulk for a reasonable price. You can make quite a few seed packets to trade from just one order. You just have to read the rules on how many packets the hostess allows of the same variety. Some of them have no limit. If you have 50 players, you could swap each person and get 50 new things. Join a couple and you'll be growing a very pretty garden next year for next to nothing! Not to mention, the newbies would probably end up getting loads of extras just because we appreciate their effort & generousity with us. I'm a little side-tracked here but if we can come up with some new ways it sure would cut down on some of this.

Trudi, no one is complaining about paying for postage on an sabse. I see that in your sabse offers, you aren't doing what we're talking about, so I'm not sure what has been misunderstood.

I don't do SASBE offers.

IMO, SASBEs are a waste of money. All you need is a letter more than a 1/4" thick to go into hand-sort and keep the seeds out of the mechanical sorting machines where seeds can get crushed by high-speed rollers.

I ask people to send an ENVELOPE with the postage ATTACHED. This is cheaper to send to me because it is placed in another envelope which costs one stamp to mail.

On my end I provide a liner and the bubblewrap--new bubblewrap--I absorb that cost on my end, but if you buy a massive roll it costs pennies and I get the satisfaction of no frustration from recieving flattened, reused bubbewrap. Does it take me a little extra time to cut that bubbewrap? Yes, but if I cut a hundred or so pieces to fit while I'm watching the boobtube it's not an imposition.

I agree that nobody here is responsible for protecting newbies. There are FAQs on seed trading at the WS forum which help beginners avoid bad experiences.

A SASE or a SASBE include the word envelope--which is supposed to have a return address and postage. Anyone who sends off postage sans envelope, or sends an envelope with the postage loose can be taken advantage of. Being a new trader doesn't mean you fell off the turnip truck yesterday.

As I have written many, MANY times before, if you feel uncomfortable with a trade then walk away...you don't have to reply, just delete the email and you are done. Don't think twice about it because the person on the other end won't think twice about you.

T

Here is a link that might be useful: Winter Sowing Seed Exchange FAQs

I post SASBE offers because I like to share what I have with others. Most of the plants and flowers I have were given to me by family, friends and generous people here.
As far as expense, with a SASBE offer you can get 10 packs of seed for less than $4.00. I think thats a great deal.

Why GW needs to be divided to "newbies" and "non-newbies"? Even experienced gardeners donÂt grow money on plants. If someone just started a new garden, the easiest way to obtain seeds is to go to Wal-Mart or Dollar store and buy seeds very cheap (10-25 cents per pack). For the price of 1 postal stamp everybody can get 2-4 packs of commercial seeds of guaranteed to grow variety, sometimes rare, sometimes common. If somebody wants to grow "must have" plants  they need to spend time by searching gardening catalogs and stores for this particular variety, add shipping and handling fees, add money paid for gas to "drive around", and compare that with the cost of the offered SASE, delivered straight to the mailbox. I donÂt see a problem with getting 1 packet of seeds I want for the price of round way postages, even SASBE. It will be much cheaper than buying it. I am grateful that somebody is willing to give these seeds to me for free, I see no reason to question the decency of the giving person. Extra stamp (if at all)? ItÂs a tip for being nice and sharing. And there is always Wal-Mart, Dollar store, Home Depot, Lowes, etc, and numerous mail-order catalogs for "newbies" and "non-newbies" with "postage consciousness".

I usually don't post on these issues but...as a person who frequently takes people up on their offers, I simply say no thanks if I think someone is asking too much. I have a lot of space to fill with minimal budget. A lot of offers on here are higher than it would be if I just went to the store and bought the seeds but I am the one excepting the offer if I choose to. You don't have to trade with anyone if you choose. A lot of times if there is something that I want that is not availible to me at my local store, extra postage is not that big of a deal for me. Being that the people are kind enough to offer the option of a SASE in the first place. Just my thoughts and the way I handle these situations.

I have given away my fair share of SASBE offers. I would never ask for extra postage. I tell the person sending to send stamps to cover the cost plus one extra in case of extra weight. If the extra is not needed, I put it back in the envelope. Yes, I'm nuts enough to have it weighed at the post office unsealed, and then tape it up at the counter, lol.
I think the newbie/oldie point is this. New people don't sometimes know it is frowned upon to be asking for a couple extra dollars in stamps(this is much different than a single extra stamp.) That doesn't make them dumb, just inexperienced. I remember the first time I responded to a SASBE offer. I was so excited to be getting some seeds that I had been looking for! I mailed a bubble envelope inside of a bubble envelope, LOL.
If someone gets a lot of responses to SASBE offers then asks for a couple dollars in stamps per person, they are making a nice little business profit. This to me is akin to selling seeds which is prohibited on this site.
Remy

Remy,you have explained it perfectly! :)

Angie,
Thanks: )
Remy

Remy, perfect explanation. With the new postage rates and the still on going problems with mailings, I can handle 1 extra stamp to be safe; but asking me for 10 stamps to send me to packets of seeds, as happened to me a few weeks ago, no way folks. That's charging for seeds, selling seeds without actually saying the words "I'm charging you $4.10 plus your bubble mailer and the postage to send me the bubble mailer".

Selling not allowed and that's what we are talking about here. Charging what one might call "a sale price of postage" for SASBE seeds.

Fran

I'm new to the site and have been lucky enough not to run into the rip offs. I read through the rules before posting anything and understood the rules, but I think Remy's explanation should be included in the rules section, it's the perfect wording.
-Leslie

Good one Remy! That being said....anyone need seeds?

i no longer respond to sasbe's, its such a waste of money, i'd much rather trade!! my stamps are my mula!!@ LOL i do have my mg's that are for sasbe's but i'd much rather trade them too!! LOL and now that's what i say too now. LOL especially since i found a cheaper way! LOL

I am new and I have responded to several SASBE offers and they all sent me way more than I expected and they were all great selections. I has saved me a ton when most seed packet are 1.97 at the stores, even at the lower prices of .97 cents, this has been a great savings. The ones I got that I don't want I have even trade for something that I wanted. I think the SASBE are great, I hope I can do the same for new people next year.