I'm just musing here & not being snippy, but I think that the 5:1:1 mix performs significantly better than peat based soils, and remains structurally sound much longer (4-5 times longer, based on all other cultural conditions being equal). The gritty mix is even better, providing greater aeration and lasting indefinitely. I'm not saying that to promote what others refer to as 'Al's Soils', only to illustrate that soils that are highly aerated and structurally stable are much preferred to peat/coir/compost-based soils for the results oriented crowd. I'm able to say this based on the hundreds of people at GW and other sites that are using these soils and some fertilizer recommendations with a degree of success that has them saying they left soils like MG or other peat-based soils and will never look back. There is a crowd that wants to make things easier (these soils are much more forgiving and easier to grow in) and appreciates the idea that their plants are growing at closer to their genetic potential. Then, there is the group that feels that what they are using is 'good enough'. I have no quarrel with how folks establish their priorities, but what I usually hear, and what I'm hearing above is 'it's too much bother'. I never try to coax anyone to use "my" soils. I only point out the considerable benefits of higher aeration and greater durability and let others decide. I respect your decisions, but at the same time I can point to the fact that what's easier for the grower and what's better for the plant are often mutually exclusive. In this case, there is an inverse relationship between effort and results, but it's not as great as it seems. Yes, there is some effort involved in finding the ingredients and making the soil, but part of that effort is negated in the fact that healthier roots make healthier plants and healthy plants are less susceptible to insects and disease, and are more productive or prolific. Include the fact that root rot and soluble salts accumulation (especially for houseplants) is something you would have to work at to achieve, and you've got a pretty good case for abandoning the heavy soils. In the end, it always almost always distills to an individual decision. Is the perceived gain worth the perceived effort. Some answer with a resounding yes, and others are not so sure or unwilling to go through the trouble. I respect any one's decision because my part in trying to help folks ends with trying to provide the best science I can so they can make up their own minds. However, if the soils didn't work considerably better than conventional soils, I'd have been handed my head long ago. ;o) Take care. Al

Yes you can, and in the short run 5-1-1 in may actually perfom better than the Gritty mix. But it will wear out quicker (break down) than the gritty mix. I tend to think of annuals going in the 5-1-1 mix, and perinnials in gritty mix. If you are going to be up-potting in a couple of years go with what you have. Either are a better choice than most anything you can find in most garden centers. Gritty mix makes future repots a dream, tip the pot over and you have bare roots.. Grading the pine bark is not fun, I hate it! A major concept of the gritty mix is based on particle size, larger particles have less surface area (by volume) and thus less water retention. 1/4 to 1/8 inch seems to be the optimal size, although due the screening process of pine bark and the thin strips I will let most 1/2 and under get in the mix (under 1/8 is not good either). If you are looking for Turface MVP check a local irrigation supply house, the stuff was designed for baseball diamonds so look in that direction. The dust is not good for the mix (particle size) The gran-i-grit is intended for chickens to help them digest grains. There are many other products other than gran-i-grit that will perform just as well. Look to a local farm supply house for the rock. Rock dust is not good for the mix (particle size) Gypsum is available at the big box home improvements stores. Gritty does dry out quicker than potting soil so you do need to water a bit more often. It is extremely difficult to overwater with gritty mix, that includes mother nature overwatering. Root rot is probably the number one killer of potted plants. After water, air is the most important thing you can give roots (most plants), more important than fertilizer. Gritty mix excels at this without drying out the root system. Gritty mix is heavy stuff, an advantage of heavy is the pot is less likely to tip from heavy winds. Al is a smart guy, it is such a simple concept.

This forum really focuses on inground soils and amendments and not on container soils. Very few here do much container growing and most do not understand the unique conditions that govern that process. I am happy to give you the benefit of my experience but you may find more input and advice by posting in either the Container Gardening forum or in the Maples forum - growing JM's in containers is discussed thoroughly there. I grow ALL my Japanese maples in containers and prefer the 5-1-1 mix for that purpose over the gritty mix. If you plan on putting these in the ground in the next year or two, the 5-1-1 will be fine and probably easier to manage than the gritty. And the 5-1-1 is likely much closer to the bark based mix most JM's are grown in so less of a concern about bare rooting (which the maples dislike unless fully dormant) when you up-pot, which you should do ASAP........a 1G pot won't accommodate a JM for very long. btw, few, if any, college level Soils classes will address container soils in any detail. It is a very different set of circumstances that govern container growing and container soils have NOTHING at all to do with understanding the physics and chemistry and biology of inground soils and soil amendments. A completely different subject!!

Yes, and using mixes specifically for 'potted' plants can be quite tricky to say the least. A balancing act too that is one does not master, your growing experience can be quite limited or very rewarding. For me it's all about sacrifice's, sacrifices made in order to attain the best possible growing experience possible without sacrificing the integrity of the mix and the vitality of my trees and their root systems. One has to be able to foresee any potential issues before deciding what to use. What might do a great job in the 'summer' might be the death of your trees in the 'winter' months. For instance: One could use a mix that hold much more water for the summer while in the end could kill your trees holding too much water come the winter and shorter days. One could use a mix that holds PWT that can be used to your advantage and disadvantage if it rains too much, stays cold for long periods of time, or gets worst as the mix break down. One could use a mix that dried out very rapidly, almost too fast for the summer and in the winter and then in summer loose their trees to not enough moisture. One could also use a mix in which you have to check the moisture levels quite often in each and every pot, for some hundreds, or use a mix that you can water every time you water for all at once without fear of root rot without having to check to see if they need water. The 511 to me is a good balance. You can add just enough smaller particles to keep the soil mix moist longer in summer while reasonably dry out in the winter in a good amount of time. You can use it on all your plants and water all your plants at the same time whether they are still moist or not. The 511 also allows you to store your trees at very cold temps, even though the pots are still moist without fear of rot. The 511 also dries out evenly and holds its structure much longer than peat or fine particle based mixes.. So If I were to match up the 'pros' with the 'cons'. I'd say the 'pros' far outweigh using a 511 mix or the like in my favor. It might be a great idea for each of us to decide what you are willing to sacrifice in the winter or the summer and find a happy medium that will work for ALL seasons to save yourself a lot of headache and certain trees their demise. What is forgiving in the summer time or in a nice warm brightly lit greenhouse structure might not bode so well for trees in less than ideal conditions come shorter colder wintery days indoors. MIke