I recently watched a couple of Brian de Palma films, Blow Out and Body Double, and found their objectification of women cringe worthy.

Sometimes history shows us how far we have come now.

Some television shows show the women as the ones in control and the men as doofuses. Maybe some TV/Radio/Film major did a thesis comparing instances of who’s a doofus and who’s in control across programs.

" and found their objectification of women cringe worthy. "

But not unrealistic, even today. Particularly today, because I've found the acceptance of objectifying women (and worse) is growing again.

Oh yes!!!

For example. For anyone, especially in the public eye, who thinks it is fine to tell a woman, or anyone for that matter ” Quiet piggy” is definitely a step back.

Never fine in any setting.

I often find myself being objectified by women.

Or maybe I'm being objected to by women. IDK... squeal!!!!

LoneJack, it must be the chicks and old hens you hang around with.

🐥🐓😉

If you go back to the early 50s, married couples on situation comedies always had twin beds(even if they were married in real life, like Lucy and Desi.) Or if a single bed was there, feet had to be on the floor, even with married couples. The word pregnant couldn't be said...it was "expecting".

Ollie, it was rude, plain and simple. A world leader should be able to take it….from any reporter. He needs to be a big boy.

He should try to lead by setting an example. 🤷‍♀️ Have some pride.

Or just accept it. It’s rude and childish.

Ollie, we agree! Childish. Impatient. Not the best qualities, for sure.

And to think he’s a person in power. It boggles the mind.

I would generally say it doesn't offend or bother me as I do recognize times were different.....but funny that this thread came up and the song Under My Thumb was mentioned. Just yesterday this came on the radio as I was driving, and I don't think I had ever really focused on the words. I was really surprised by them. Yeah, I found it cringey!

It's down to me
The way she talks when she's spoken to down to me
The change has come, she's under my thumb

Anyone remember the outrage about the show Murphy Brown, oh so many years ago? It wouldn't cause a ripple today.

salonva, agreed. I don’t get offended by many things. Especially, if they’re not meant to offend. Things change. I used to say ”oriental person” and then found out that it wasn’t proper. No offense was ever meant.

But yes, there are some real lulus for song lyrics out there. 😳

They say when you are happy, you hear the music. When you are sad, you hear the words. I don’t know if that is true.

" They say when you are happy, you hear the music. When you are sad, you hear the words. I don’t know if that is true. "

What an interesting idea! I've never heard that before, but I'll give it some thought now.

I enjoy watching pre-1960s TV and movies, and it seems like EVERYBODY smokes cigarettes. Nowadays in movies only a bad guy would smoke. But back then, it was the ingenue, the hero, everybody.

Ha Jupidupi - and how about when they give a cigarette to someone who's been injured - or a slug of booze? Hubby was watching an old scifi movie yesterday and scientists, in a supposed 'clean room' were all smoking, and there were ashtrays scattered around too 😄

And punching down is never a good look for any person in power - it's bullying. Do a little thought experiment: how would we feel if such a thing were said publicly to someone we loved?

For some of us, it's offensive whether we have a relationship with the targeted person or not - wrong is wrong.

And FWIW, I've been binge watching the 1960s TV series The Avengers lately - my happy place. I love that Emma Peel fights skillfully, is super smart and poised and always looks fabulous - a total badass. Quite different than the typical female roles in American TV shows at the time.

The song ”Young Girl” made me uncomfortable in the 1960’s.

" They say when you are happy........."

Any of the permutations or other descriptions not mentioned may or may not be possible or more or less common. Personally, I can't listen to a song without paying attention to both lyrics and the music. When I hear or read one without the other, I hear the other in my head. That's another two permutations.

In a well known and easily found video interview with Bob Dylan, a well-known journalist asked him what his intent behind the meaning of lyrics of the many songs he'd written that had become seen as anthems of the politics of the age or philosophy to study and consider. His response was something to the extent of "I didn't write anthems, I just wrote songs. I wanted to be Elvis Pressley. There is no one meaning for any of them. It's whatever you think it is."

Neil Young, when asked a similar question about a couple of his songs people thought were expressing deep personal thoughts, said something like "there is no meaning at all. Those are the words that fit."

I do notice stuff when I watch old movies. We have a huge DVD collection of many classic films and TV series. Some that stood out to us as being really bad were MASH, we bought the season one found at a flea market, we watched it thinking it would be great fun to watch. It was SO NOT P.C. it was ridiculous! It was truly one of the worst we had and ended up getting rid of it at The Exchange. Never wanted to watch that again! There are some old Clint Eastwood movies that are pretty silly that men would never act like that in a movie these days but not so bad we got rid of it, just observed that those sort of things would never go over these days in movies. Some stuff is just kind of silly and not the way things are now.

Music I used to listen to seems very juvenile now when I listen to it, AC/DC "Dirty deeds done dirt cheap" used to LOVE that song but now can't get past the subject matter...HAHA!

As a kid we enjoyed Charlie Chan movies with no idea how racist they were. l haven’t seen one even broadcast in decades

We were playing an "Oldies" station the other night and "Johnny Get Angry" came on. It's a fun tune and easy to sing along with. But then I was re-hearing the lyrics (or maybe just fully listening for the first time) and was surprised! Here's an excerpt:

Oh, Johnny, get angry
Johnny, get mad
Give me the biggest lecture I ever had
I want a brave man
I want a caveman
Johnny, show me that you care, really care for me

Every girl wants someone who
She can always look up to
You know I love you, of course
Let me know that you're the boss

So, Johnny, get angry
Johnny, get mad
Give me the biggest lecture I ever had
I want a brave man
I want a caveman
Johnny, show me that you care, really care for me

The Beatles- Run For Your Life

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand, little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end, little girl

Well, you know that I'm a wicked guy
And I was born with a jealous mind
And I can't spend my whole life
Trying just to make you toe the line

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand, little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end, little girl

Let this be a sermon
I mean everything I've said
Baby, I'm determined
And I'd rather see you dead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzHXtxcIkg4

😳

Even though the Beatles were wildly popular, I have never been a fan.

The early MASH episodes were certainly stereotyping just about everyone. In subsequent seasons the characters developed. In early episodes Hawkeye had a wife, and a sister, and I think a mother. Later it was just him from childhood, and his dad.

Bpath - Hawkeye had a wife in the MASH books and in the original movie but in the TV series he was single from season one/episode one.

"Girl, you'll be a woman soon
Please come take my hand
And girl, you'll be a woman soon
Soon you'll need a man

Oh girl, you'll be a woman soon
Please come take my hand
Girl, you'll be a woman soon
Soon you'll need a man
Soon"

How will taking his hand get her from girl to woman? Yeesh

Thank you for the correction, LoneJack. I thought he was married in the first season but you are right.

Boy, reading some of these old song lyrics is making me queasy. Yikes & yuck! I am reminding myself that words that flowed easily & rhymed were the goal. But, it’s no accident that many of these awful worded love songs were in the years just prior to the availability of female birth control and bra burning!

Annie mentioned "charlie Chan" which I thought about yesterday, and loved the shows. I did not know Charlie was a white man in yellow face and I think was the reason is was shelved. But I also loved Charlie's kids who mostly were of Asian descent. (The Show was fashioned after a famous Honolulu detective who was Asian.) There is a new Charlie Chan series in the production stage right now and produced by Tzi Ma, who will also be Charlie Chan in the series. Can't wait.

How about "I'm just a gal who cain't say no" from Oklahoma. A show where one character not-so-subtly tries to talk another into, well "Poor Judd is dead".

If there is a new production of Charlie Chan, I hope they leave out all the racist tropes that were in the originals including that the Asians were less than whites, and the blacks were less than Asians.

"Short People" anyone?

" "Short People" anyone? "

Newman freely and often said it was written as a joke, and he was surprised how many people liked it. That may not be enough for you, but he at least owned what he said.

OllieJane, what is an (A)FWL ?

This post reminded me of a woman i see on Tiktok. She does videos singing along in her car, and then noticing the lyrics...

https://www.tiktok.com/@thattwinmama_/video/7535183206614715679

Yet another calculated wedge issue...

What have you got against the American Womens Football League, OJ?

Is that what the letters stand for? Well that is no big deal. Who cares who plays what sport?

Affluent white female liberals

Translation = blame the women - again.

These perceived women’s issues are not new. A quick search of ”affluent white women urban liberal issues”will deliver videos & talking points back to 2016. The specifics of how & why this sector of women are either viewed as the cause of or the victims of many work and life issues depend on which side of the divide you are on. Here’s an AI definition of perceived issues with affluent white women:

Perceived issues surrounding affluent white women, particularly in the United States, often center on themes of political power, cultural influence, and the intersection of privilege and race.

I'm very proud to be included in the AWFL group I knew nothing about.

I see, so it's an acronym meant to demean people based on their political views?

I hadn't heard that one before

I was thinking about movie slap scenes as being old fashioned, cringe and gendered but it's still being done today, isn't it , say in 'Whiplash' , - more of a power dynamic than gender-specific - so hard to watch that ! (I've not been able to watch that movie, just the previews)

Well 3 out of 4 ain't bad. I will accept it happily.

" more of a power dynamic than gender-specific "

Absolutely - I still remember the slaps in In The Heat Of The Night (1967) - it was nothing when the white man slapped the black man, but it was a shock when the black police detective slapped him back.

What I always hated in the old movies was how it was always the "girl" who tripped and fell as the hero was trying to save her, and he had to go help her, delaying their escape. It was always she who stood aside, knuckles in mouth as the hero was fighting the bad guy instead of grabbing a lamp and beaning him. One thing about the more modern shows is that the woman is just as likely to kick butt as the man...or even where the guy is standing and watching the woman beat the heck out of the bad guy.

Annie, it wasn't just the hero saving the girl, movie productions used various tricks to make sure the male characters were taller than the women in the shot, especially if it was a romantic pairing. They still do, for the most part, but computers make that easier today.

Not only did they do things like have the male actor wear heels and lifts, sometimes he would stand on a box, sit on a cushion, or even have the female actor walk in a "ditch" created so she would be shorter than he was.

I used to enjoy Moonlighting, but watching it recently turned me off. Or rather, I turned it off. Bruce Willis was funny but it was the way the show portrayed Maddie in general. When are was in peril, dangling from a building, in her short skirt and heels, of course she was shot from below.

@ TV, I understand it was done in scenes with other male actors too - some of those guys were pretty short 🙂