Could it be sleep apnea? Perhaps consulting a doctor and/or getting a sleep test might give some answers

Some form of sleep Apnea? You absolutely need to be evaluated by a doctor

I was thinking about this and you may not be aware most of the time that you arent breathing properly. I certainly wasn't and yet I have severe sleep apnea but not the usual collapsing throat tissue type.

patriciae

Yes, I agree with the others about sleep apnea. What you describe is classic sleep apnea symptoms. I would get in to see a sleep specialist as soon as you can. If it is sleep apnea, it's very dangerous left untreated and does irreparable harm to your body.

Sleep apnea is my first thought too.

My husband would wake up a few times a year gasping for breath. Unable to get air in or out. Scary as hell. He got pulmonary, sleep, gastro, allergy testing. Nothing turned up. After years of trying to figure this, the same thing happened to me.

I must have typed in a different set of google search words that night because something finally came up that made sense for both of us: silent reflux. It is different than heartburn and normal acid reflux -neither of us have either of those.

My husband now waits 2 full hours before lying down to sleep. Sleeps with his head propped on many pillows. Sometimes he sleeps in a wing back chair. Certain foods, like dairy and sugar, make it happen to him more often. I have had it happen a few times. Once when I had seltzer water, which I don't usually drink. Once when I ate tomato sauce late at night.

When it happens to him he has to sleep with the light on, I rub his hands till he falls asleep, and then I spend most of the rest of night staring at him to make sure he isn't going to die. It is awful.

Sleep propped up. When it happens write down what you had to eat the day before, when you went to bed. See if there is any pattern.

Thanks for your feedback, everyone. I appreciate it.

The doc is sending me to lung folks and wants me to be evaluated for

sleep apnea. Meanwhile, I’m trying not to sleep ;)

I might see if what I call ”airway kegels” will help.

I don’t know how I could do a sleep study. My pigheaded ignoramus brain has this fixed idea that sleeping is a waste of time that could be spent watching junk TV or doomscrolling or staying on high alert for something like far right-sicles.

I sometimes have to take a sleep helper bc I get RLS (restless legs). The TV gets left on (I forget timer or watch beyond it). I am a rebellious sleeper. I ”know” better. Not getting good sleep is what wastes time. I also have back pain, foot pain and that persistant pain at my Rt posterior-lateral torso. Plus I wake at 3 AM to pee even if I’ve not had water.

And I am so hypertactile, I cannot imagine trying to sleep with something like a CPAP gizmo strapped to my head and face. I toss and turn and move and thrash every which way, but often wake up on my back, sans pillow at 8 AM. Go figure, because my back pain will never let me fall asleep in that position.

Having some air rushing contraption strapped around my head and face, gouging into me would make me very crabby. And then I have to frig around washing and drying the darn thing every day? It’s enough to floss, brush, bath, shampoo, clean house and dishes, cook… Sigh. Maybe this is why people are not meant to get old and stay alive for long. Except, bc of pain and a few other things, I didn’t yet get a full life of living.

Are those CPAP things bulky, noisy, tickly? (Asks she who doesn’t like hair in her face, dangling jewelry, noise (except my own or my choice ;) ).

CPAP gizmo

Why not wait and see what the doc says? Of course it is your choice, but it may be that the gizmo, if suggested by your doc, would allow for some good sleep, so it may be that the aggravation of the gizmo would need to be weighed with the positive possibility of more restful sleep. I don't think it is a comparison that can be made ahead of time though.

" I cannot imagine trying to sleep with something like a CPAP gizmo strapped to my head and face. I toss and turn and move and thrash every which way, "

Before being diagnosed and treated by a sleep disorder clinic (with a CPAP machine, it's now been about 25 years ago) I used to toss and turn too. So much so, it often disturbed my wife's sleep.

The doc said that that was my body's reaction to the breathing obstruction, movements to try to find a position where breathing could be normal. It was involuntary movements.

Since using a CPAP machine for all these years, I can report that I wake in EXACTLY the same position I was in when I fell asleep. Exactly the same. No movements at all.

" Are those CPAP things bulky, noisy, tickly? "

I'm going to say no. Are they the same has having nothing on your head? No. But you get used to it and it becomes another one of the "normal" sensations you become aware of and expect when going to sleep. Like being under a blanket or cover, having your head in the right position on the pillow. Etc.

My wife is a light sleeper. She developed sleep apnea about 10 years ago. She groused about the added routine of going to sleep with using a CPAP and headpiece, had concern for the very slight sounds of moving air, had concern that she would never get used to it and that that alone would prevent her getting good sleep. I calmly but firmly suggested that for health reasons, she needed to give it her very best effort and to not say it was impossible, until she tried and tried and couldn't get used to it.

It took her a bit longer than it took me. Maybe about 6 weeks with several "I give up" moments along the way. She's been using it now for years herself and has never gotten better sleep. And she's not such a light sleeper anymore, which suggests that maybe before her apnea was treated, it prevented her from falling into deeper stages of sleep. I don't know, it's possible.

See an MD trained in sleep medicine. Get tested. Good luck.

Please go to the doctor and get a sleep study done. It sounds very much like sleep apnea. You can get used to the CPAP. DH did. He had a really hard time at first and I suggested he just put it on and try. He could take it off when it felt like "too much" but he had to try. At first he would only wear it a couple of hours. By the end of the week he was sleeping through the night. Wasn't long before he wouldn't even think of sleeping without it. Also do the sleep study whre you spend the night. The at home sleep studies are not as acurate. Many people are surprised to find how much they actually did sleep when they believed they were awake all night.

Better to use a CPAP than to NOT wake up some night gasping for air.

I just (mis) remembered a passage from Green Eggs and Ham

I thought there was a section something like:

"Would you, could you on a train?

Would you, could you, in a plane?

I would not could not do it there,

I would not, could not, anywhere. "

Alas, my recollection is off by a bit.

But I bring this up, because I was once facing a 12+ hour flight following a week of too much work and too little sleep. I called the airline and asked if I could use my CPAP machine on the plane. The answer was yes. I don't remember if I was able to plug it in or if I used a battery, no matter. My seat was in one of those cubicle configurations - I threw a little blanket over my head, and got a solid 6 hours of sleep with my CPAP working away as usual.

So, to appropriate the rhyme inaccurately

Yes I'd use it on a train

Yes I'd use it in a plane

I'd probably like green eggs and ham,

And I'd do it, Sam-I-Am

It does sound like sleep apnea. Need to see a sleep specialist. Your doctor can order a sleep study, and the specialist will evaluate you to narrow and pint points the cause(s) of your sleep apnea. If the underlying cause(s) can be treated then you won’t have to rely on a CPAP machine for long. Many people adapt to use the machine but there other options. I observed someone sleeping with a CPAP machine on and I wouldn’t be able to sleep myself hearing it in operation. I must sleep in total silence.

Nothing about this sounds like sleep apnea to me and I'm wondering why everyone is lead to think that first.

The choking and gasping of sleep apnea happens while you are asleep. This sounds like the choking and gasping wakes you up and you notice it. With sleep apnea it is usually someone else who notices the choking and gasping, you are not the one who notices it.

It also sounds like you may suffer from anxiety and an anti-anxiety pill could you want to sleep and not dodge sleep so much.

Sleep apnea with gasping and choking can definitely wake you up during a sleep. A sleep study can confirm or rule it out.

Wow. Thanks again everyone. I think I have maybe both but I will get a sleep study done. I have some questions about that procedure. My doctor also wants me to get my esophagus scoped. I had some study and it looks like I have irritated distal esophagus.

I have to lie down often because of severe pain in my back, and that creates a problem when I eat because I can’t wait three or five hours before lying down. We have the bed cranked up about 12°. We actually bought a device to put in our bed That is under the mattress. It looks funny but that and about my 500 pillows help.

So you think somebody that going to a clinic where they do the study is better?

My husband snores like a freight train and a Harley. I had to keep waking him up or kicking him because he would stop breathing, wake up snorting and sucking air when he wasn’t snoring away.

I convinced him to get a sleep study and he had one of these take-home kits. By that time I had told him his snoring and clunking around was bugging the hell out of me and also he didn’t like that I had the TV on watching anything from masterpiece theater PBS to documentary to just junk on television because it kept him awake obviously. So he decided to sleep in the Ekornes Strress-Less recliner in the living room next to the woodstove. So he sleeps at a cocktail position and I don’t hear him snoring but then I’m not watching him either. Maybe I’ll get a camera with the remote so I can keep an eye on him.

He’s one of those unusual men who could be very strong willed (obdurant, stubborn,

pigheaded.) His doctor ordered a sleep study and the kit arrived in the mail. I thought he was sleeping in a large regular stuffed down chair with his feet up on an ottoman.

I told him that that was not gonna give a very good sleep study if he was sleeping with his torso essentially vertical. He would not listen to me and you only get one. Try with those sleep study units. So he took it his way and of course it came back saying that he didn’t have any sleep apnea problems. He told me that he called the place that evaluates it and that they said they would “take it into consideration.“

Sure sure they did. Of course, there was no mention of his sleeping while sitting in a chair on the report because they didn’t think about it they just got their money for the test and that was that. A waste of insurance money and a waste of his time and it gave him I think of all sense of security, but again, I can only have so many disagreements and try to convince him of so much if he is of the mind that he knows better. Again, most men are like this I’m sure. Wink and women are never like this :-)

If I go to a place to sleep, I don’t know that I can fall asleep if I don’t have about 25 or 50 mg of trazodone a bunch of pillows and a heating pad to attenuate the spasm in my back. When I was in the hospital a few years ago one diligent nurse saw that I had a heating pad and came by and ripped it away from me and put it in a drawer on the other side of the room and gave me a lecture that I should know better. I did know better . But it was really hard to sleep without that damn heat source.

So if I go to an outside place for a sleep study, can I be as picky as I want about the temperature of the room and have cold air and a lot of blankets and a heating pad and maybe keep the TV on all night so that I won’t miss anything?

I also get esophageal reflux.

Thanks to you folks who encouraged me about getting the study and also if I need it trying the CPAP machine because most people get used to it. There is some YouTube video where Joe Rogan is interviewing some guest who swears by the thing and he says he has never slept as well and he doesn’t feel as groggy . So maybe I won’t fall asleep in the middle of reading if I get enough sleep.

My husband is often sending me articles about the importance of getting a good night sleep. I fall asleep while reading them so I may have to have a video so I can keep hitting replay.

I asked my doctor if sleep apnea was that big a deal if I even had it and she said yeah it’s a big deal. It’s bad for your heart. It can raise your blood pressure and there’s a bunch of other things that it’s not good for.

I think she was thinking that the heart and lung or pulmonary people would do the sleep study. I don’t know so you guys think I should go to a sleep clinic or a sleep specialist? It may be not do it at my home where I will have the TV on and stay up as late as I can before my eyes closed without my permission ?

I have no idea why people enjoy going to bed early and think they’re going to bed at 9 o’clock at night is a good idea. I can do that when I’m in intensive care.

All kidding aside thanks a lot and I’m gonna follow up with this. I’ll get back to you if you want to know. But I do have reflux Gastro reflux as well and that’s not good because sometimes I eat and have to be horizontal not long after which is why I stay cocked up in bed or sitting up half asleep

Maybe if I lose 25 pounds I will have no problems at all.

DH recently lost about 30 pounds and he looks great. I asked him how he did it and he said he asked our doctor how to lose weight and the doctor just said eat good stuff don’t need a lot – – do not over eat. So was it about five months he’s lost about I guess 30 pounds he looks really good. I think that’s good cause now I can try to get him to do more work. Lately I’ve got him yanking out bittersweet and weeds like golden rod after it went past.

Thanks too, Kendrah. I will read about silent reflux.

Many options.......allergies, sleep apnea, dreams, GERD, anxiety, afib, mild trauma....

I'm glad you're getting a sleep study done.

Petalique, if you are overweight then sliming down will fix sleep apnea if obesity is the only underlying cause, and will also help with reflux (GERD) among many other things. Some people may have more than one underlying cause of sleep apnea, but still you can eliminate one variable out of the picture by losing weight.

Eta: better go to a sleep study center. They can give you anxiety med to help you to sleep if needed.

Kendrah, I’ve started reading about it. Interesting. That might help explain why my voice is very husky.

I have also had a chronic cough for about two years or more. Chest x-ray normal. But I have woke up with a mouthful of regirgitated stomach acid. That is not good.

Yep, I have to clear my throat very often.

" So if I go to an outside place for a sleep study, can I be as picky as I want about the temperature of the room and have cold air and a lot of blankets and a heating pad and maybe keep the TV on all night so that I won’t miss anything? "

Time for attitude adjustment. Be a listener, not a talker. Whether things turn out to be flexible as you'd prefer or not, you just need to do it.

I echo the comment above about the take home tests. They're a bandaid imposed by insurance companies to save costs. Is having one better than not having any test at all? I suspect the answer to that question is No.

Unless you need a referral to a sleep doctor from your primary care doc, this isn't treatment that the primary care doc adds any value to nor needs to be involved with. Go see a sleep doctor, they need to talk to you and do a focused exam before deciding if and what kind of a sleep test THEY want you to do. Most of them have relationships with sleep centers (if not working directly at one) so picking where you get it done and then seeing a sleep doc is to do the second step before doing the first. Reverse the order, it will be wherever the sleep doc wants you to go.

Best of luck to you. This isn't mumbo jumbo, hocus pocus. It's real, it's a field of medicine with decades of study and practical experience, and it's usually successful. There are dozens of causes of sleep problems so let the doc TELL YOU what they diagnose, not the other way around.

My youngest brother resisted wearing a CPAP for quite a number of years for severe apnea. We just happened to be talking about it a week or so ago. He finally had tried everything else and decided to give one a try again and surprisingly made the adjustment. He now has a new device, which he said is more like a nasal canula than a mask over the nose and mouth. He said he can hardly tell it’s there.

So please don’t resist so hard if it’s apnea. There are many adjustments that can and should be made if you need one. And do ask what your alternatives are. You might be better off with a custom mouthpiece. I used one for several years for mild apnea. For the sleep study just take your own pillow, comfy PJs, and maybe a book. They will make you turn off devices and the TV at a certain time so just relax.

"My youngest brother resisted wearing a CPAP for quite a number of years for severe apnea. "

I too resisted for a long time, and I tried it several times (a few months at a time) over many years, but I slept worse with it on than without it. But technology changes, and the new equipment is more comfortable than it was previously, but that's speaking relatively. I can definitely tell it's there.

Unfortunately, it doesn't help me sleep any better, and I'm still as tired in the morning as I ever was. Then again, it doesn't make me sleep any worse either, so I wear it to give my brain the oxygen it deserves.

Give your body the oxygen it deserves.

I use a nasal cushion. It has a thing that goes over your head with the tube coming off the top instead of from your nose. I use a Bipap which has adjusting pressure. When it is fitted properly there is no sense of air blowing on your face. It is comfortable and I adjusted quickly. Me, I was an insomniac as a child. I have developed a long history of telling myself stories to fill that time when I may or may not be asleep. When I did my sleep study where they had to draw my information from some tiny part of the night as I barely slept I learned how severe my situation was with blood oxygen levels of 60 percent. Well That is potentially lethal. My sister who had a Cpap said just stick with it. Use it during the day to get used to it. Well. Now It is like a noise machine. I just don't notice it and my DH got me an oximeter, a really good one that shows I am oxygenated. I am well into the 90's Do it. I dont necessarily sleep better but my DH is much less likely to wake up next to a dead person.

patriciae

" But technology changes, "

Really, what do you have in mind?

I've been using these gizmos for over 25 years and can't think of a single technology change that has affected the user experience at all.

The devices have been pretty much been the same from since I first got one in the last century. I get a new machine every 3-4 years so it's not like I'm using antique equipment.

One technology change that occurs to me is that in the begining, in order for the docs to assess usage stats during the annual follow up appointments (hours per day, mask seal/leakage, events per hour, mask on/off events), it was necessary to take an SD card out of the device. Now, for at least the last 10 years, they all have cell system connectivity and the the docs can have their office assistants look up patient usage over the internet. It's transmitted daily to the equipment manufacturer. Patients have the same data access to websites for that purpose. For Resmed devices, it's called My Air and there's a smartphone app of the same name. I check periodically just to be sure there are no air leaks or event spikes, etc., I hadn't noticed.

That doesn't really affect users. Taking out the SD card once a year was no more difficult than the monthly changing of the air filters.

@petalique - Yes to the throat clearing, cough, stomach acid in the mouth. Those things have accompanied this horrible experience every time it happens to me or my husband. After it happens to either one of us we take tums immediately, drink water, and spend the rest of the night sleeping in a wing back chair.

My husband warned me when we met that every once in a while he has a hard time breathing in the middle of the night. I thought he just meant he gets a bit wheezy. No. He bolts up in bed and the sound of death starts. It is loud and just awful. The first time it happened I started screaming at him to breathe, hitting his back, and grabbed the phone to call 911. It was way more serious and scary than what I anticipated.

It happens only a few times a year, but bloody hell. It's like he is dying. Time stands still. It is probably 30 seconds that he can't breathe, but it feels like an eternity. After 20 years of being together, I no longer start hitting him or screaming at him :)

I have had it four times now. Twice in the middle of the night. And two times when taking a nap at the same friend's house. WTF?

Regarding CPAP and changes over the years -- my brother-in-law works for Inspire. It is the pacemaker like device that is surgically implanted to help with sleep apnea. It is only for people who cannot successfully use CPAP or mouth gear, or for whom those no longer work. He knows the CPAP industry inside and out. He said that the face gear for it has changed a lot within certain brands of machines and companies. Some patients just hate and others have had updated face gear that makes it much more comfortable. And of course, what you can use is so dependent on individual insurance companies.

I don't have a clue about what might be causing your problem. I can only speak about using a CPAP machine.

At DH's urging I made an appointment with a pulmonologist that he has consulted for years. My sleep study was done in an annex of the hospital that resembled a mini-hotel. They put sensors on and I watched TV for a while. The study was no big deal, they monitor and observe you while sleeping. I was diagnosed with severe sleep apnea and restless leg syndrome.

I have been using my CPAP for 4 years without any issues. It only took a few days to get used to it. The machine is extremely quiet and I have a nasal cushion which fits just below my nostrils and the tube is on the top of my head with the air flowing down flat tubes on both sides of my face. I can't even say the noise is like 'white noise' - there is no noise. The only time I hear something is if my nasal cushion becomes slightly dislodged. I do change positions during the night.

I know how awful it is to not sleep. I hope they get to the root of your issues soon.

DH had acid reflux issues, but the cpap helped solve that for him. The machine is quiet. He had to try a few different head gear pieces -- the face mask made his skin break out...must've been something in the plastic that irritated his skin.

I will sometimes be in a dream where I can't breathe...I'm struggling to get to a window to get fresh air in and can't get the window open ... stuff like that. I then wake up and open my mouth to breathe. I find it's caused by nasal congestion, my nose being plugged up. Apparently I'm not able to open my mouth to breathe at night. Go figure.

Experiences like this are sometimes associated with neurological dysfunction, also. Waking up to a "demon" on your chest is an ages old experience and it seems it .has something to do with the body at rest and the brain misfiring. Something about the different stages of sleep and the nervous system. I dont understand it very well

My husband has a neurological condition and one of the results is that he has vivid hallucinations that disturb his sleep. All manner of people, both dead an alive, come to him at night.

The feeling of having a demon on the chest that feels like it is suffocating you is well documented in history. It makes me view these shamans and seers and visionaries of old civilizations and think that maybe, instead of communicating with the ancestors that maybe they had neurological dysfunction. that passed for supreme knowledge.

" Really, what do you have in mind? "

I made a statement of fact. Technology changes over time, and I can't think of a single instance where technology doesn't change.

Unlike you, I can think of several things about these systems that have changed, and do affect user experience - and since technology changes, I suspect there will be more in the future.

I read through most of the responses, and while I won't be adding anything drastically different, ... I'll offer this.

DH has been using a CPAP for maybe 15 years now. At first, yes he was resistant to it but now it is second nature and he really feels the quality of sleep is so superior. He takes it when we travel because he feels it's that helpful.

As for the noise, it is SILENT. As Maire said, the only time it makes a noise is when it's not sitting right. I usually just say "fix your mask" and in his slumber state, he does and all is silent.

He did have the initial sleep study in a sleep center and actually had to go back twice because his sleep was so disrupted. About a year ago, he did the at home sleep study ( it was wearing a sensor ring) and that seemed to work fine. I have another friend who just did one as well, at home, and it seemed to work. I wasn't aware that they do the sleep centers anymore.

I hope you get resolution and good sleep.

Scary! I had this happen a few times several years ago and mine was caused by acid reflux. I have the LPR/silent version referred to in an earlier post. I'm glad you're getting checked out. No stone unturned!

Good info from Cleveland Clinic here about laryngopharyngeal reflux aka LPR, silent reflux. LINK

An otolaryngologist is the kind of doc to see for diagnosis. (However, my husband saw many of them and they totally missed this diagnosis.) Alternatively, the treatments are simple, PPI's, most of which are over the counter now. You could also talk to your PCP about it and ask for an RX of them. My husband gets his this way and they are covered by insurance.

Is part of your resistance to sleep that you are fearful of this happening again? Or, do you just have a crazy restless brain, like mine?

" Unlike you, I can think of several things about these systems that have changed, and do affect user experience - and since technology changes, I suspect there will be more in the future. "

Toronto, why does it seem like you're ducking my question?

I'm not aware of any technology changes with the equipment I've been using for decades. I trust you know what the term means, you used the word "technology" and I'm unable to think of such a change.

Please name one in the world of CPAP equipment. Thanks.

Correction - I was updating some records and noticed that my sleep study was 2019.

I had originally posted upthread that it was 4 years ago. Mine was conducted in a Sleep Center and it does seem that many are done at home now. That could be due to insurance - medicare covered mine but my son's insurance would only cover the at-home study.

" Toronto, why does it seem like you're ducking my question? "

I answered your question: I stated the fact that technology changes. That's all I said. Anything else you think I said is in your mind.

Please name one in the world of CPAP equipment.

Humidification. Noise reduction. Automatic adaptive pressure. Decreased size and weight. And that doesn't include changes to mask designs and materials.

Technology - the use of scientific or technical knowledge used to produce an apparatus for a specific task.

The most common apnea, the obstructive kind, happens when the tissues around or in the airway collapse. A CPAP device provides positive pressure to keep open the airway during sleep. The devices. have sensors to monitor the individual's breathing. Some have alarms that sound if breathing stops or a mask is askew.

The apparatus in toto has an air pump that can be adjusted to specific pressure settings, sensors, an air hose to convey the pressurized air, a water reservoir for humidification and some kind of headset to deliver the pressurized air to the nose or nose and mouth. .

What you mention doesn't involve changes to the technology.

My experience of 25+ years, comparing my first machine to the one I have now (maybe the 6th or 7th)-

None of the following have changed- humidification, noise, size and weight. Headset changes are changes in shape or style, not in technology.

Adaptive pressure devices are relatively knew and don't (as I understand them) involve any new technology of the basic kind but simply sensors to adjust the pressure on the fly. It's a feature, not an wideopen innovative tech change. This is not the type of CPAP machine most people have.

" What you mention doesn't involve changes to the technology. "

They absolutely do - they technology in the unit has changed to allow for heated and humidified air, and equal power in a lighter, smaller package - which is great for travelling.

" None of the following have changed- humidification, noise, size and weight. "

Yes, they have. Humidification was not available when CPAPs were first available, but was added to the units later. Noise, size, and weight has definitely changed since I started using the units 20 years ago. https://www.tampabay.com/incoming/sleep-apnea-gear-gets-smaller/2254337/, https://ap.resmed.com/knowledge/are

" involve any new technology of the basic kind but simply sensors to adjust the pressure on the fly. '

Yeah, that's new technology that was added to CPAP machines for added comfort without compromising on effect.

"This is not the type of CPAP machine most people have. "

I don't know for sure, but the Resmed AirSense is pretty common in Canada and does have that technology. It's a major manufacturer and I'm sure it's got great penetration in the US as well......What is the most common CPAP unit in the US?

We're apparently living in different dimensions of time and space because nothing of what you say to contradict my comments about my own experiences is consistent with those experiences.

No need to continue.

Whatever, dude.

I'm not a "dude", no need for you to be disrespectful.

Oh for heaven's sake.