" I think people would be well aware of what would be acceptable in their chosen field. It’s all about choices we make in our life. "

Some people adorn themselves before they have decided on a chosen field.

I think you grudgingly agree or at least see my point. It doesn't matter to me what reasons or motivations are behind these or any other poor choices people make.

As is said regarding not just these but also regarding other decisions, it's unfortunate that sometimes young people's poor decisions and choices made with a lack of forethought can wind up having negative future ramifications that they never imagined possible. Consequences that sometimes cannot be changed.

No Elmer, I do not agree with you, grudgingly or otherwise. You think wrong.

Successful individuals can have both tattoos and piercings.

Naturally you don't agree. I forgot who I was conversing with. Sorry I wasted my time.

I've yet to encounter people with more than a conventional extent of visible ornamentation, or in unconventional attire or other forms of let's call it situationally unusual displays of "individualism", who appeared to be successful in professional positions dealing with the general public. Of course it's different where you are.

Please, no need to respond.

Well then Elmer, a lesson learned for you! Don’t waste your time. See my avatar, see my name….scroll on by. Easy peasy. 🤠 🤷‍♀️

“Of course it's different where you are.”

Yes, it must be. It’s a big world out there. Different places, different experiences.

Please do the same for me.

It must be hard for you, you often seem to be aggravated.

If I want to respond to one of your comments or threads, I will. The forum is open to all.

You said you were sorry for wasting your time, so I gave you a quick fix. If you don’t mind wasting your time then you too are free to do what you want. Easy peasy.

No Elmer, you are wrong, I am not aggravated at all. I have a great time on this forum.

I think there are a lot of great people here, and so many of them make me laugh.

Example, petalique always has interesting threads.

Sorry petalique! I think we’ve veered slightly off topic. 😕

It's too easy to fool some. Bye!.

Bye! Enjoy the rest of your evening. 🤠

I’m heading out to see if the Northern Lights are visible. There are reports there is a good chance of seeing them.

I had breast reconstruction after bilateral mastectomies due to breast cancer. As part of that process, I have tattooed "areolae" and "nipples." Is that reason included in your lack of self esteem or boredom opinion, Elmer?

Chartreuse, You are brave to share your personal life experience and your doing that IMO helps untold others who are traveling that nightmare life path that you traveled. I have a close friend who also had the post mastectomy tattoos. My hope is that I gave her as much comfort as she tells me I did while she was on her journey back to health. Your question caused me to read Elmer’s comments again. It’s clear to me that his remarks did not include any tattoos done for ”cosmetic” or medical reasons. I hope that the purpose of your asking the question was to remind all of us that there are very good and valid reasons for a person to have tatoos. That’s what I thought at reading your question - oh! Yes! of course!

" Is that reason included in your lack of self esteem or boredom opinion, Elmer? "

Of course not. That's a ridiculous and disrespectful question to ask of me.

KW has explained why in the preceding comment better than I could.

FWIW, I not only know the word 'aglet' (or aiglet), I know the words for other parts of a shoe.

For instance how about the word for the hard, shaped support in the heel section, or the one for the front part that covers the top of the foot?

Times have changed since many of us entered the workforce. Hiring is done by thirty year olds who have grown up with many friends who have chosen to get tattoos and piercings and whatever else. I don’t think that they are as much of a negative as some think they are.

https://ignitestudentlife.com/employers-share-their-thoughts-on-tattoos/

I’m not one to judge those who have them.

Note: On the Prince Albert thing, my husband and I use that as a clue when we play the game. There are hundreds of cards in the game, but we love it when that one comes up.

It’s a gimme game point. 🤠

eta Except when my husband says Prince George because he can’t remember which prince it is, just that it is the name of a Canadian city.🙄

Your link is of slight interest but I note it is of a Canadian source and surveys.

In my last visit to Canada, the greater prevalence of tattoos and punctures there than here was quite noticeable to me. I'm not sure your survey is relevant in for a forum with a majority of participants in a different country from yours. But as you wish or believe.

In the professional environment I spent my career (international and large business financial advising), the picture painted by most respondents in the linked forum was quite far from the reality I saw. What I saw was one where a professional appearance and, sorry to say, conformity to visible norms of others, was expected. Individualism in appearance or dress, definite obstacles to making a good impression.

Whether the survey is relevant to others is neither here nor there to me. It is my experience and relevant to me. I’m glad you read the article.

I know that hiring practices have changed since I was young. And mainly for the better. I like to see progress.

I like to read about all experiences. I try not to live in a bubble.

Again, it’s a big world out there.

If you like to present as "truth" what or how you'd like things to be, there are job openings in our capital. Otherwise, if you'd like to not live in a bubble, spend more time in more diverse and populated areas and see how things are in reality. As where I live and worked. No imagination or wishing and hoping are required (or tolerated). Truth is truth.

Interesting link. Ignite seems to be a college student support site & provides employment opps to college students at specific schools. Of course they would be a more relaxed environment. Just for an anonymous opinion I searched ”Can I get a job at a big 4 accounting firm if I have visible facial piercings and body tatoos?” For this environment a very conservative look is still the standard. What makes up the conservative look has relaxed over the years but compared to current styles it’s still conservative.

Here’s what AI said about my question:

• No Official Policy:Big 4 firms generally don't have a strict policy against tattoos or piercings, but they may have guidelines for client-facing roles.
• Client Preferences:Some clients may have preferences regarding appearance, and firms may ask employees to cover tattoos or remove piercings to maintain a professional image.
• Location Matters:The location of tattoos or piercings can be a factor. Tattoos on arms or legs are often easier to cover than those on the face or neck.
• Professionalism:While body modifications are becoming more mainstream, it's important to maintain a professional appearance, especially in client-facing roles.
• Considerations for Interviews:During interviews, it's generally a good idea to cover visible tattoos or remove piercings to avoid potential negative impressions.
• Internal Roles:If you're in a non-client-facing role, you may have more flexibility regarding visible tattoos and piercings.
• Company Culture:Some firms may have a more relaxed culture than others, so research the specific firm's policies and culture before making a decision.

So, I think the answer is ”it depends”. But, the only acceptable practice is that my personal biases have no place in candidate selection for a position for which I am the hiring manager. Skill set / ability to perform the job is important but no less important than ’fit’. Will this person who seems to have all the quals needed fit in with the team they will be working in? That’s the hard part because it’s about personality.

Elmer, you have no idea where I have lived, or what I have experienced.

I do know that the workplace is nothing like it was fifty years ago. The world is nothing like it was fifty years ago. You may wish it to be, but it’s not. That’s the truth. 🤷‍♀️

Elmer, I’m retired. I’m not looking for a job anywhere.

I’m waiting for carol to tell us all about the parts of a shoe. 🤠

KW, thanks for that.

I remember when men couldn’t have long hair in the workplace! The times they are a changin’.

Very comprehensive list, KW. I had a client- and public- facing role (to say the least) and have remained in contact with colleagues continuing after I retired.

For the sought after jobs among grads of the better colleges, the competition is pretty intense. When interviewing and knowing what the cultures were of prospective employers, being an odd duck in appearance or personality-wised were best avoided. A successful interview performance by an applicant is one in which questions are answered, not subliminally raised.

Long-er hair is more tolerated than before but LONG hair for men or extreme hair styles for women are not positive features.

I ’m waiting for the next POSTUS to have facial piercing and tats. Maybe the teardrop tat on his face. Pierced scalp, nose, eyelids, lips. On his fingers could be ”H-A-T-E”

I think we’re getting close.

🤠 Ha, Petalique! Your current guy is certainly respectable. No tats or piercings that I’ve seen. We all know that’s only for folks with personal hangups, or convicted felons.

Note: I’m just following along here and trying to stay relevant to other comments from those from a different country than me.

roxsol - respectable? Not. He is a convicted felon. Also, morals & integrity are a requirement for being considered respectable. I do agree though that no tats or piercings that can be seen but that really is an age thing too. I’ve not encountered too many over 70 with them.

KW, I was being sarcastic. 😉

I really do think that tattoos and piercings are way more common than some of us older folks realise. I think the younger group do not see them as a negative or a positive. They just are.

" I really do think that tattoos and piercings are way more common than some of us older folks realise. I think the younger group do not see them as a negative or a positive. They just are. "

As before, I think you're looking at this from a distance and different perspective than what prevails here. That was my observation in your country, what was common there was more extreme that what's seen here. The same seems true in Britain, and less so on the Continent.

All of my kids have professions (in the traditional sense, not in the overused sense), none of them have any of the markings we're talking about (neither visible nor under clothing) and nor do their spouses who all are also in professions requiring post-graduate education. All have occupations where making a good first impression that engenders trust from strangers is important.

I've heard EACH of them at different times make unflattering comments wondering about the judgement of people we've seen out in public, having tattoos or piercings beyond what I'll call the traditional norm

Dang - I did it again! You remember roxsol that I confessed to being a tad too intense & serious - I’ve been told that enough that I do believe it. On the flip side, I can be fun to be around at a party! 🤭

KW, we have card and game night every so often! You could be my partner in ”Times Up”. I know we’d get Prince Albert correct! No confusion with Prince George or Prince Rupert.

Elmer, how do you know what your grown children and spouses have under their clothing? I doubt if my son-in- law has a Prince Albert, but I don’t really know. Nor do I care.

eta

I’ve never heard my children comment on the appearance of others.

I've thought that teenagers were the group most likely to 'decorate' themselves. "Hah-Hah, you old fools, I'll dye my hair purple, get tattooed, get ten piercings, whatevah --and I dare you to comment on it!" It's normal passive-agressive behavior...in teens.

Elmer, I have seen piercings and tattoos in your country. About the same as in my country.

Tatooing and pierciengs are not done to attract me. I do see them everywhere these days.. Like dying your hair some different color. Not my isssue. Historically it was common in the distant past. Me, I had a fit when my mother made me get my ears pierced.I am over that. I am going to be cremated when I die. Decorating your skin when it is your choice is not my problem.

In 1973 I had a friend in Houston who was a hairdresser at the Neiman-Marcus there (which was a large store at the Galleria), and he got fired for having pierced ears. The NM personnel department told him "Neiman-Marcus men do not have pierced ears." He was only wearing diamond studs, and so it was difficult for me to understand what their problem was.

Yeah, I’d forgotten about the swatches of neon hair. I’ve seen that on certain younger people.

" Elmer, I have seen piercings and tattoos in your country. About the same as in my country. "

The turn of the conversation had to do with acceptability in professional environments, not among the trades or the population in general. This was the subject of KW's comments and mine. It's fine if this is an area you have limited experience with.

“In my last visit to Canada, the greater prevalence of tattoos and punctures there than here was quite noticeable to me.”

Well, I turned it back to your comment . You mentioned it first.

I have a great deal of experience in this area.

I think we just see things differently. Oh, well.

I described my experience, what is/was yours?

My questions to you have gone unanswered. I don’t need to answer yours.

I believe you. You can return the courtesy and believe me that I have experience in the area of hiring people. I’ve been polite to you. That’s how civilized people work together.

We see things differently. I don’t agree with you. You don’t agree with me. 🤷‍♀️ First comment after I disagreed with you was that you were wasting your time conversing with me. You’re lucky I’m so pleasant and continued conversing with you. 😀

eta Where is Carol with the shoe words?

I didn't see your question. My impressions are from THEIR comments on the topics and recent pool/beach time together.

You're bluffing, trying to deflect to avoid answering my question. Not a very honorable thing to do.

It's as I suspected, you don't have significant personal experiences of recruiting, hiring, and working in professional environments comparable to what I described for myself.

Not true. I’m just getting bored with this conversation. Now I’ll end it on my terms.

I’m pretty sure the front part of a shoe is called the vamp.

Yes! I believe you are correct colleen.

Sorry I'm late getting back - the answer is counter and vamp.

Here's a couple of graphics to show more.

A picture's worth a thousand words and all that 🙂

FWIW, my grandpa was a shoemaker and started a factory that still bears his name, even tho he sold his share in it decades ago. I still have some of his shoemaking tools from the early 1900s too.

Here’s something I find interesting.

The bottom of a horse’s foot has a frog. Railroad tracks can have a frog. They’re both shaped the same.

Why is is called a frog?

Some suggestions:

I’m not sure. All kinds of possibilities. I think the railroad frog came from the shape of a horses sole. Blacksmiths probably noticed the similarity.

I think it looks like a frog with stretched out legs.

Perspective! I see that a 'top piece' is at the bottom tip of a high heel. It's only 'on top' for the cobbler.