Not every agency will accept payment by Bill Pay. It is done either by bank card or some have their own methods/processes and yes, they DO charge sometimes hefty processing fees to do so.

@gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)

Every agency that accepts payment by check will accept payment made on Bill Pay.

I’d be interested in seeing which agency charges extra for a check.

Have you tried it?

Go to your bank’s Bill Pay section. Add payee (your own name and address works) send $5.00 to yourself and watch what happens.

What will happen is that in a few days you will receive a paper check for $5.

I'm not going to argue with yo but will state again that some agencies have their own way of doing this and they WILL NOT accept bill pay. And if you need to pay in person for whatever reason (license tabs, PO box. etc), they are not going to wait "a few days" for a check to show up in the mail. It is pay now or go home!

Not all your experiences are the be all and end all of reality!! There are exceptions.

@gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)

OK then. Do not be open to a safer, easier way to live.

Not all your experiences are the be all and end all of reality!!

This is true for you too. Cal DMV allows drivers license renewal and payment on line, annual car registration and payment online. The two counties I pay property tax to allow (and facilitate) ACH payments for no charge. I pay federal and state income taxes on govt payment sites via ACH online (I've been REQUIRED to for a good 10 years), no processing fee. HOA fees, two places. Too many examples of what I acknowledge are MY experiences. Other people have other experiences. Nothing in my life (besides my gardner, who's paid by check instead of cash for MY convenience) requires a check.

I am gobsmacked to learn that US banks send out paper cheques for BillPay transactions. Ours do it electronically, but there is still a traceable trail. In addition, we never had our cashed cheques physically returned. You used your bank statement to reconcile your cheque book.

@colleenoz

Not every payee receives a paper check. Most are electronic. The number of accounts on my monthly list that receive a paper check is One. The guy who cleans our pool.

Everyone else receives the electronic version of a check.

For that one account, the bank issues a paper check, mails it. I am not charged for printing, envelope or postage.

Well, Maddielee, my city water service charges extra to use their bill pay service. And yes, I was mistaken, isn't using my bank card info but my checking account routing number and account number. It still costs me a dollar and something more than if I walked in there with a paper check.

@Kathsgrdn you wrote ”their bill pay”.

Is there a fee if you use your bill pay to send them payment?

Maddielee, it is the water company of my town that uses an outside bill pay company.

@Kathsgrdn Do they charge you extra if you mail a check for payment?

" I am gobsmacked to learn that US banks send out paper cheques for BillPay transactions "

You're in a very small country, population and economy wise. Major structural and systemic changes in any sector get more difficult as size increases and simplify with smaller sizes. As many people live in the southern part of the state I'm in as live in all of Australia. My state, admittedly a large one, has overall 60% more people than there are in all of Australia. Extend the large size difference across all of the 50 US states and the problem becomes obvious.

Decades ago when European countries were modernizing retail banking, it was done individually country by country. Not until EU-wide systems were put in place did it all tie together. Before, it didn't.

So, Elmer, by your argument the EU has a quarter as many more people than the US, and has existed as a unit for much less time than the US, but it has managed to standardise its banking while the US hasn’t?

Yes because banking practices in the more than 20 countries (not the former East Bloc, which acted later) were raised to a more automated standard independently. 20+ small pieces done individually. It was easier to find common ground to integrate the systems overall when they each had more modern though incompatible systems.

In my lifetime and perhaps in yours, there was a time that Australia's currency was not freely traded on currency markets. Reason - too small. It was pegged to a reference currency - I believe the Pound, then the US$. Also in my adult lifetime and perhaps in yours, there was exchange control in a number of European countries. The UK and Spain come to mind immediately and perhaps there were others. This means the banking systems were strictly internal facing and foreign exchange required government permission. Even for tourists.

Know why the US doesn't have chip+pin smartcards like much (most?) of the rest of the world? The card issuers (Visa, Mastercharge, etc) retail outlets (stores, shops, etc) pushed back on being mandated having to buy new equipment. They've gradually accepted the chip part of the chip and pin, that's cheaper, but the security provided by PIN numbers is still years away. In smaller countries, most with stronger central governments and less states rights laws, it can be mandated.

Maddielee, no.

@Kathsgrdn then there should be no fee if you pay using your bank’s Bill Pay feature. Because your bank sends a check.

Maddielee, there is one, though, I just paid one two weeks ago.

I think people are using the term "bill pay" in different ways or to mean different things.

The recepient wouldn't necessarily even know if you use your bank's Bill Pay feature - and that is a different thing than signing up for an ACH transfer at the bill generator's site.

Dinosaur's Progress: I've enrolled in auto-pay for my two credit cards. My utilities are already paid that way -- direct payment from my bank, and I get a statement detailing what I'm paying for -- which is also a reminder about the funds going out.

Tally De -- IDK *how* the bank pays. Wouldn't it be electronic transfer?

Last year DIL's parents experienced check washing when they mailed a payment in the USPS blue box on the corner near their home -- where they've mailed checks for 45 years without incident.

"IDK *how* the bank pays. Wouldn't it be electronic transfer?"

Not always. The bank's billpay service does what is workable. My bank's billpay service prints and postal-mails a paper check to some payees that don't take ACH transfers, such as the independent local pharmacy I used for a few years, my optomistrist's parent company, or a neighbor who per agreement bills everyone on the street a portion of the security light at the corner that's on his electric bill (he's currently two years late per my records). An image of those checks are on my account e-statement and are viewable in online account activity after they clear. My electric bill payments oddly are sometimes an ACH, sometimes a paper check.

Payments initiated against a checking account by the payee/recipient (such as my insurance company when I manually schedule a payment via their website), whether ad hoc or recurring auto-pay, must be an electronic transfer being that said payee can't physically write a paper check on the payor's account.

Foreign exchange controls in the UK were abolished in 1979. So they're hardly relevant to current banking practices.

" Know why the US doesn't have chip+pin smartcards like much (most?) of the rest of the world? "

Because they find it easier to pay for fraud than pay for the new (and safer) technology.

Read what I wrote before, it explains the situation.

Retailers have to pay to buy processing equipment. Card issuers pay for unauthorized use. Card issuers can't force retailers to buy new equipment.

Here's another example of the result when we fail to go full bore after people trying to steal from us.

"It's too much trouble" is what you get when you don't prosecute...or vote.

Use a Uniball gel ink pen to write checks if it scares you so much. link has a pay wall so it's a worthless link.

"Retailers have to pay to buy processing equipment. Card issuers pay for unauthorized use. Card issuers can't force retailers to buy new equipment."

I really don't understand your point. Processing equipment? When street and farmer's market vendors have the "equipment" to handle debit and card purchases on their mobile phones or "Square" technology, what "new equipment" are we actually talking about here.? The vendors in my neck of the woods are happily using cheap modern technology to take payments and no one is forcing them to do it. It just makes economic sense for them.

" I really don't understand your point. "

That's abundantly clear. Here's a starting point to understanding - a national economy and its large businesses and their hundreds-plus more locations dwarf in size and importance vendors at a street fair selling homemade baskets and using Square.

" no one is forcing them to do it. It just makes economic sense for them. "

Wrong. When a card issuer mandates sellers having chip and pin capability, those who don't become liable for all charges from any fraudulent use. For those who do, the costs of such incidents remain with the card issuer.

"

" no one is forcing them to do it. It just makes economic sense for them. "

Wrong. When a card issuer mandates sellers having chip and pin capability, those who don't become liable for all charges from any fraudulent use."

No one is forcing them to accept credit cards - that's the important point. If a seller doesn't want to pay the costs of technology, they choose to forgo that technology. If they want the increased client satisfaction and increased security that comes with accepting credit cards, they have to (and should be willing) to pay for the technology (and the service charges).

I was just having a similar discussion in another forum site - the general consensus is that the costs of accepting cards - no matter how unpalatable they are - are far lower than the costs of not accepting them, or of charging to accept them.

Been writing checks for close to 60 years without problems other than 3 rare mishaps which were all in my favor several years ago. None have been lost nor stolen, but more recently I have adjusted my habits to include the new ink/pen and when in the area taking the mail directly to the post office.

" No one is forcing them to accept credit cards "

RIght. Does that make any sense to you, other than being a weak effort to be argumentative? You too seem to know little about this.

Speaking of fraud, Chase just texted me about a charge to my debit card. Not mine. Checked my account and there were a few more charges. Called them, and by the time I talked to someone another dozen or so charges had been declined. The weird thing is it was apparently the card they were using, not my account information, and the only place I use my debit card is Costco, because it's my only Visa. I'll be getting a new card and Chase already credited my account, but I'm puzzled.

" RIght. Does that make any sense to you, other than being a weak effort to be argumentative? "

Yes, it does make sense to me. Go figure! Otherwise I wouldn't have posted it. Who's trying to be argumentative?

Inform yourself about financial matters before making such confident and assertive comments that suggest you didn't do so in advance.

I refuse to write checks anymore bc of the mail theft issue here in the Houston area. I can pay online through my bank. MUCH safer. Zelle works great for many things, too. I won't do PayPal or Venmo or ApplePay. No way will I write checks. My sister had a check to the IRS washed and stolen. Her bank still has not resolved this issue so she's out thousands of dollars. Nope. These days it's really not safe. There's so many safer options. Pay with your credit card, then pay your credit card off online. So easy.

"Been writing checks for close to 60 years without problems other than 3 rare mishaps which were all in my favor several years ago. None have been lost nor stolen..."

Same here, except it's been only close to 40 years for me with one lost check which was well before the days of on-line bill paying. I can easily adapt but don't care to -- check writing works for me, and I'll continue to do so until I'm in a position where I no longer have that option. Which may or may not be within my lifetime, IDK.

" Zelle works great for many things, too. I won't do PayPal or Venmo or ApplePay. "

Why won't you use Venmo or Apple Pay? (I don't know anything about Venmo or Zelle, as they don't exist here).

"That's abundantly clear. Here's a starting point to understanding - a national economy and its large businesses and their hundreds-plus more locations dwarf in size and importance vendors at a street fair selling homemade baskets and using Square."

I gather you are unfamiliar with the notion of "economies of scale."

Large businesses have a greater capacity than small ones to adapt new technologies that reduce the administrative costs involved in managing paper transactions. That is doubtless why financial systems across the globe have adapted to and adopted better, more efficient ways of managing financial transactions.

" There's so many safer options. Pay with your credit card, then pay your credit card off online. So easy. "

I would do this for all of my bills but too few bills will accept an auto credit card payment and I wish that they all did. Only 3 billers here will accept credit cards for monthly payments such as my trash collection, cell phone, and newspaper delivery. But not for the electric bill, cable bill, and others. Just recently our DMV will accept credit card payments over the web for annual vehicle registration and that option was mainly put into place due to the covid pandemic.

"The weird thing is it was apparently the card they were using, not my account information, and the only place I use my debit card is Costco, because it's my only Visa."

My husband used his bank card in Europe at a bank ATM, and someone subsequently took $6000 out of his account. He contacted the bank, and the money was withdrawn in Istanbul, which he'd never been to in his life. As best as we could understand it, the crims had attached a gadget to the ATM which recorded card numbers. That was all that was needed. It took about a week for the bank to refund his money.

It'd be interesting to know if other people shopping at that Costco have reported similar issues.

" I gather you are unfamiliar with the notion of "economies of scale." "

The irony is striking. With a 4 year degree in Econ from a Top 20 university and a 2 year graduate degree in a business subject, you can be confident I more than understand this topic that was coverd in the first semester of the first year.

Another related topic that has you confused. Smaller card acceptors pushed back PRECISELY because there was no pay-back to them. The notion of economies of scale is the opposite of what applies, they refused incurring a wasted sunk cost with no IRR for them.

Re; check-washing. I saw a news item last year about a local couple who had thousands stolen that way - and it was their insurance payment or something like that. They couldn't get their bank (Ally) to do anything about it, so they turned to a local news station's consumer advocate, and that did it. The bank finally responded and made them whole.

Also, I've seen plenty of information about how card data can be stolen. Skimmers is just one - that's the device mounted over the card reader, and it's noticeable if you're aware of the scam. I've never encountered that because I haven't used any sketchy ATMs, only the one @ my credit union, for a few years now, and I only go to the same couple of always-busy gas stations.

Data breaches are another way to get hacked - and there are other ways as well...

https://www.aura.com/learn/how-do-people-steal-credit-card-numbers

And I use only Paypal. I have for years and have never had any issues. .

P.S. Paypal has a sweet interest rate deal right now on savings - and it's FDIC insured.

" I would do this for all of my bills but too few bills will accept an auto credit card payment and I wish that they all did. Only 3 billers here will accept credit cards for monthly payments such as my trash collection, cell phone, and newspaper delivery. But not for the electric bill, cable bill, and others."

It all seems very behind the times to me. We pay a lot of those bills via automatic credit card deductions- internet, telephone, cable, newspaper, etc. Other bills are direct deductions from our bank accounts. Some bills we pay by electronic bank transfer from our individual personal accounts, but that's because of the way we manage our joint finances, not because the vendors/service providers wouldn't automatically deduct from our credit cards or set up direct debit if we wanted them to.

Per capita GDP in the US exceeds the same stat in both Australia and in Canada so whatever trivial differences there are in retail banking, what's done here doesn't seem to hold back the economy. Maybe the opposite is true?

" Per capita GDP in the US exceeds the same stat in both Australia and in Canada so whatever trivial differences there are in retail banking, what's done here doesn't seem to hold back the economy. Maybe the opposite is true? "

Ooooh, you got your feelings hurt and have to take comfort in American Exceptionalism and insulting other people's homes. Good for you!

Not at all. I'm mildly annoyed by the few here who demonstrate the hypocrisy of self-justification and self-righteousness who feel no need to limit comments to that which they understand. There are only a few.

You don't know me if you think I'm what you may think is a stereotypical American flag waver.

Oh my goodness!

@Elmer J Fudd They've gradually accepted the chip part of the chip and pin, that's cheaper, but the security provided by PIN numbers is still years away.

The chip was the big part, like 90% of it. Chips generate a one time use token, which is invalid after it has been used. So even if someone intercepts that token, it's useless after the transaction has been processed because it can't be used to process another transaction - you need the chip to get you a fresh new token. Compare that with skimming the credit card details off the magnetic strip when you swipe, details which can be used again and again and again after you're gone with your card.

PIN on top of chip has specific benefits, particularly for lost or stolen cards. But that's a very small slice of the credit card fraud pie, in the US anyway. A lot more common in Europe.

J4C, in that much of the world and its card issuers think there's enough benefit from chip&pin to use them exclusively, I'd say the industry and its experts disagree with you.

@Elmer J Fudd

J4C, in that much of the world and its card issuers think there's enough benefit from chip&pin to use them exclusively, I'd say the industry and its experts disagree with you.

That is such a clever abbreviation of my name, never seen that before. I shall tell Mrs. Foursee so she can have it monogrammed.

@Jay Foursee - "The chip was the big part, like 90% of it."

I'm going to assume that's why so many credit /debit card transactions in my neck of the woods are "tap and go." I only need to use a pin if the purchase is over $100 or $200, depending on the card/bank/ limits I've set. Otherwise, I just wave the card at the terminal, it takes the payment, and I'm on my way. I gather the US has been a little slow to adapt, but is starting to catch up.