Can I add cherry stone to 511 to help with drainage.
Patti Chicago Zone 5b/6a
11 months ago
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tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
11 months agoPatti Chicago Zone 5b/6a thanked tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)Related Discussions
E.B. Stone Orchard Bark for 5-1-1?
Comments (22)Hi, Josh, thank you! I've mixed up 3 8-gallon batches of 5-1-1 now, using the GreenAll bark, and have up-potted some 13 roses of varying sizes. I have about 6 more to go. The GreenAll micro bark is great, and the whole process is a lot easier/faster than before when I used a different bark. I've screened out some larger pieces and just picked out any really noticeable/large pieces of sapwood and called it a day. Most of all, I'm really impressed with how HEALTHY my plants are after about 1.5 years in the 5-1-1 mix--re-potting was fast and easy, no rotted/mushy roots, just healthy roots, and no muddy mess. And quite amazing to me, the re-potted plants haven't shown any signs of shock or wilt--they just look happy to be in fresh mix and to have more space. I don't totally bare-root my roses, but nearly, and several of these plants were budding and blooming. They have just kept on after being re-potted. Very grateful to AL for sharing his expertise and knowledge with so much patience on this forum, and to you as well, and others. I've spent a LOT of time over the past 2 years reading threads on the Container and Soil forums. Using 5-1-1 for my containers has truly been a giant step for my gardening experience and my plants. Hugely liberating for me to mix my own medium and to great to see the results. Thanks again. Sheba...See MoreAl's 5-1-1 vs EB Stone Potting Soil
Comments (9)The subject of soils can be enigmatic until you grasp one simple idea. Favorable air porosity is essential to good plant health is dependent on good root health. Soils made of predominantly small particles (peat, composted matter, coir, sand, topsoil .....) cannot offer the air porosity offered by soils made of predominantly larger particles. Imagine the air space between BBs in a jar and sand particles in the same jar to visualize. Along with small particle size comes increased water retention. Lots of water in the soil is easy on the grower, but hard on the plant. Plants like damp and hate wet/soggy. Plants don't drink water, they absorb it a molecule at a time from the vapor in the air between particles and from the colloidal surfaces (the surface of soil particles). You can use the ingredients in either the 5:1:1 mix or the gritty mix and make a soil that is either exceptional in it's ability to gain the favor of plants, or make one that is virtually unusable; so even if the ingredients were the same, how they are combined and the size of the particles holds more sway over the likelihood that grower and plant will find the soil favorable. As an example: 5:1:1 of appropriate bark:peat:perlite yields a very good soil. The same ratio, but with peat as the predominant fraction 5:1:1, peat:bark:perlite yields a soil as water retentive as most commercially prepared soils. Finally, I see a LOT of ingredients in the mix you mentioned that are there to hook you into believing that this soil is healthy because you're envisioning all that wonderful kelp/guano/f-meal/oyster shells providing a buffet for the plant that will ensure wonderful health. The fact is, those ingredients have no real value for houseplants that you can't get from a bottle or Miracle-Gro or Foliage-Pro with greater efficiency and surety the plants are getting what's needed, when needed. Essentially those ingredients provide an unnecessary source of nutrients at the expense of aeration - so I look at them as far more likely to be a limiting factor than a plus. If you keep your focus on providing a soil with excellent drainage and long term aeration (all about particle size and durability of the particles) such that your soil holds minimal amounts (or no) perched water, you can't go far wrong. Remember that for container plants, providing good nutrition is a fertilizer thing, and not a soil thing. As far as practical experience with any one soil, the ingredient list can be very telling (as others noted with tongue in cheek), and you don't need to be the bus driver to know the wheels go 'round & 'round. ;-) Al...See MoreWhat can I add to cactus mix to help it dry out faster?
Comments (14)You know, just a side thought for those of us living up here in the north.. Years ago when our parents and grandparents were using MG mix and other bagged stuff, they basically grew native houseplants that they rarely if ever put outside for the whole summer.NO root rot, no knats... Therefore, they had complete control over watering for these plants. Most houseplants, native to our area if you call them, were only kept indoors. In this case, Mg might work for some. This acoording to my mother.lol Now a days, look at how many of us grow plants not native to our areas, especially tropical,such as plumies, citrus, gardenias, and ect..., that we must put outdoors at the mercie of the weather elments. They thrive there after a long winter indoors.. Now they are also at our mercy to provide the right type of soiless mix to compliment the extremes in weather, especially ours which can be long cool and rainy days, even in summer. NOW, MG is not a good compliment to our now outdoors plants that must do not like constant wet feet. If we insist on keeping them outdoors all summer, we must then think of soiless mixes that allow these poor babies to be rained on consistanly, and even dry out without killing them. If I have anything in MG, it is plants kept indoors such as pothos, peace lilies, spiderplants,preyer plants, and so on. You know the kind I mean.. These never go outside. I keep all plain ole native ones inside while all my non native ones go outdoors, ones that you typical grow in the deep south..These non-native ones are never in MG..No way Hose.... Please, take a gander to the container forum, and you will learn of mixes that allow you to make the best of the outdoors,without scarificing your plants vitality and then eventual death. MG is no longer the choice for most of us, unless you are planning on sticking with just the plain ole indoor houseplant able to even take wet feet...:-) Al's mixes are perfect for plumies... Who of us likes to be bored with with regular houseplants anymore, you know, the ones I mean..lol Mike:-)...See MoreAl's 5-1-1 or Gritty Mix for Citrus/tropical plants? I have big pots!
Comments (36)Yes, and using mixes specifically for 'potted' plants can be quite tricky to say the least. A balancing act too that is one does not master, your growing experience can be quite limited or very rewarding. For me it's all about sacrifice's, sacrifices made in order to attain the best possible growing experience possible without sacrificing the integrity of the mix and the vitality of my trees and their root systems. One has to be able to foresee any potential issues before deciding what to use. What might do a great job in the 'summer' might be the death of your trees in the 'winter' months. For instance: One could use a mix that hold much more water for the summer while in the end could kill your trees holding too much water come the winter and shorter days. One could use a mix that holds PWT that can be used to your advantage and disadvantage if it rains too much, stays cold for long periods of time, or gets worst as the mix break down. One could use a mix that dried out very rapidly, almost too fast for the summer and in the winter and then in summer loose their trees to not enough moisture. One could also use a mix in which you have to check the moisture levels quite often in each and every pot, for some hundreds, or use a mix that you can water every time you water for all at once without fear of root rot without having to check to see if they need water. The 511 to me is a good balance. You can add just enough smaller particles to keep the soil mix moist longer in summer while reasonably dry out in the winter in a good amount of time. You can use it on all your plants and water all your plants at the same time whether they are still moist or not. The 511 also allows you to store your trees at very cold temps, even though the pots are still moist without fear of rot. The 511 also dries out evenly and holds its structure much longer than peat or fine particle based mixes.. So If I were to match up the 'pros' with the 'cons'. I'd say the 'pros' far outweigh using a 511 mix or the like in my favor. It might be a great idea for each of us to decide what you are willing to sacrifice in the winter or the summer and find a happy medium that will work for ALL seasons to save yourself a lot of headache and certain trees their demise. What is forgiving in the summer time or in a nice warm brightly lit greenhouse structure might not bode so well for trees in less than ideal conditions come shorter colder wintery days indoors. MIke...See MorePatti Chicago Zone 5b/6a
11 months agotapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
11 months agoPatti Chicago Zone 5b/6a thanked tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)Patti Chicago Zone 5b/6a
11 months agotapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
11 months agoPatti Chicago Zone 5b/6a thanked tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)Patti Chicago Zone 5b/6a
11 months agotapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
10 months agoPatti Chicago Zone 5b/6a thanked tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)marmiegard_z7b
10 months ago
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tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)