Al's 5-1-1 vs EB Stone Potting Soil
jala4260
12 years ago
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rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
12 years agojala4260
12 years agoRelated Discussions
E.B. Stone Orchard Bark for 5-1-1?
Comments (22)Hi, Josh, thank you! I've mixed up 3 8-gallon batches of 5-1-1 now, using the GreenAll bark, and have up-potted some 13 roses of varying sizes. I have about 6 more to go. The GreenAll micro bark is great, and the whole process is a lot easier/faster than before when I used a different bark. I've screened out some larger pieces and just picked out any really noticeable/large pieces of sapwood and called it a day. Most of all, I'm really impressed with how HEALTHY my plants are after about 1.5 years in the 5-1-1 mix--re-potting was fast and easy, no rotted/mushy roots, just healthy roots, and no muddy mess. And quite amazing to me, the re-potted plants haven't shown any signs of shock or wilt--they just look happy to be in fresh mix and to have more space. I don't totally bare-root my roses, but nearly, and several of these plants were budding and blooming. They have just kept on after being re-potted. Very grateful to AL for sharing his expertise and knowledge with so much patience on this forum, and to you as well, and others. I've spent a LOT of time over the past 2 years reading threads on the Container and Soil forums. Using 5-1-1 for my containers has truly been a giant step for my gardening experience and my plants. Hugely liberating for me to mix my own medium and to great to see the results. Thanks again. Sheba...See More5-1-1 vs gritty mix newbe to potting mixes
Comments (1)Let me make a suggestion, please? Follow the link I left below to gain a better understanding of the difference between the gritty mix and the 5:1:1 mix, and a better understanding of how water behaves in container soils. I think gaining an understanding of that (the water:air relationship in soils) is probably the largest step forward a container gardener can take at any one time. Al Here is a link that might be useful: C'mon - I'll take you to what he's talking about....See MoreAl's 5:1:1 Mix vs. Al's Gritty Mix for Tropical Fruit
Comments (5)Yes you can, and in the short run 5-1-1 in may actually perfom better than the Gritty mix. But it will wear out quicker (break down) than the gritty mix. I tend to think of annuals going in the 5-1-1 mix, and perinnials in gritty mix. If you are going to be up-potting in a couple of years go with what you have. Either are a better choice than most anything you can find in most garden centers. Gritty mix makes future repots a dream, tip the pot over and you have bare roots.. Grading the pine bark is not fun, I hate it! A major concept of the gritty mix is based on particle size, larger particles have less surface area (by volume) and thus less water retention. 1/4 to 1/8 inch seems to be the optimal size, although due the screening process of pine bark and the thin strips I will let most 1/2 and under get in the mix (under 1/8 is not good either). If you are looking for Turface MVP check a local irrigation supply house, the stuff was designed for baseball diamonds so look in that direction. The dust is not good for the mix (particle size) The gran-i-grit is intended for chickens to help them digest grains. There are many other products other than gran-i-grit that will perform just as well. Look to a local farm supply house for the rock. Rock dust is not good for the mix (particle size) Gypsum is available at the big box home improvements stores. Gritty does dry out quicker than potting soil so you do need to water a bit more often. It is extremely difficult to overwater with gritty mix, that includes mother nature overwatering. Root rot is probably the number one killer of potted plants. After water, air is the most important thing you can give roots (most plants), more important than fertilizer. Gritty mix excels at this without drying out the root system. Gritty mix is heavy stuff, an advantage of heavy is the pot is less likely to tip from heavy winds. Al is a smart guy, it is such a simple concept....See Morepine bark fines in als 5-1-1 recipe
Comments (25)To the OP: Apologies for diverting the topic but please do pipe in if are still in doubt. Westes: "I think when you talk about finer particles creating more space between particles, that is just a side effect of more surface area. Larger particles with less total surface area leave less space between those larger particles. This is just looking at the same issue from two different perspectives." It is the other way around. Capillary force depends on the space between surfaces. Consider a wick made of fine strands of fibers. If you loosely pack it then the spaces between strands are large and it will not wick as well. But if you tightly wind the same strands the spaces between strands decreases and it will wick up water much better. The surface area has not changed but the capillary force increases considerably. This is the principle that a mop uses to draw up the water from the floor. Another way to look at PWT is to think of a jigsaw puzzle vertically. The pieces themselves are big compared to the spaces in between them. Let us assume the pieces cannot absorb water. Let us say they are made of plastic and when they are put together there is still a tiny strand of space between them and is the same throughout. If the space is small enough water will wick up from the bottom through those spaces to quite a height. But the height achieved by wicking water is determined by the space between the pieces and not the size of the pieces themselves. And for this theoretical jigsaw puzzle, the height the water will reach be fairly fixed - no more no less. "If I take Turface fines and water them, I get a water-saturated mess that is very slow to dry. Are you saying that this means the perched water table actually goes the entire length of the container to the top of the soil? Let me try to grasp the physics of just that trivial case before we start to talk about 511 again." If you take your turface medium it will have a fixed PWT. Let us say that is 5 inches or 10 inches or whatever the medium supports. Below that height it will be 100% saturated. Above that height it will not be 100% saturated. And as you go higher it will be less so. When I say saturated, it means both the particles and the air spaces are filled with water. Above PWT the particles may be saturated but not the spaces in between. In fact, the spaces in between will be a mixture of air and water vapor making it very humid. The relative humidity in the spaces may be 100% but it is very different from saying that space is 100% water. Slow to dry does not mean there is a PWT. All it means is that turface is saturated with water. Does not mean that the spaces between them is. And turface is pretty reluctant to give up its water. The surface bond strength between water and the clay in turface is pretty strong. It takes a lot of energy to break that bond and it becomes increasingly (exponentially) harder as the turface becomes drier. Cactus like plants have an immense ability to exert phenomenal force to extract water. They have evolved to do that. Water loving plants lack that ability and need more freely available water not tightly bound to the medium. Without any roots to suck that water any medium will feel damp/wet for a long time. Temperature plays a role here too. Lower the temperature harder it is for the roots to extract water from a medium....See Moretapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
12 years agotapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
12 years agorina_Ontario,Canada 5a
12 years agotapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
12 years agoLamora
12 years agotapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
12 years ago
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