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Lighting Kitchens

Kitchen Lighting Help Please!

11 months ago

I'm down to the last bit of planning for my kitchen before we start demo in three weeks and this is the one I've been dreading - lighting! I'm just really ignorant on the subject and the more I read the more confused I get.

The kitchen is 95.88 square foot. 118" long x 117" wide. We currently have two of the old style fluorescent light boxes in the ceiling that have got to go. There is also a can light above the sink that we generally keep on all the time. Above the sink is a 52" wide window that lets in a good amount of natural light and we are removing part of a wall to open the kitchen up to the dining room with another large window.

I'm thinking of going with the canless LED lights that have a night light feature like the one below. I liked the night light as an alternative to keeping the light on over the sink all the time. They come in 3", 4", 6" or 8" but I'm between the 3" and the 4". Below is an overhead view of the kitchen and the blue dots represent where I'm thinking the lights should go. The black lines are just markers for the center of the room - the ceiling will be flat. Cabinets will be going straight up to the wall and we have 8' ceilings.

My questions are:

1. Is 3" or 4" lights better for this space?

2. Does the placement of the lights look correct? It's not completely squared with the room but taking into account that there will be cabinets going all the way to the ceiling I was thinking it somewhat reduced the actual space. The four lights in the center are spaced 36" apart left to right and about 48" top to bottom.

3. Should we do all with the night light option or just the one over the sink?

4. Should they all be on one switch or should the light over the sink be separate?

5. Is the light on the top left necessary? That is a doorway that has the basement stairs to the left and the door to the garage on the right. The stairwell is not very well lit so I was worried about that corner being dark.

6. Should I get a dimmer? If so, what kind do you recommend? I am getting an induction cooktop and I've read some posts about dimmers causing interference with the cooktop and buzzing.

7. I do plan on getting undercabinet lights as well so if you have any recommendations for that I'd greatly appreciate it.

As an added note, I did toy with the idea of putting a pendant light over the sink, but there is only 15" between the top of the window and the ceiling so I wasn't sure if that would look right. Below is a rendering of the space for reference.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice you can give me. I'm completely lost with this whole lighting/electric thing.

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Comments (8)

3onthetree
11 months ago
I would suggest starting here: David Warfel - Language of Light. It has visuals easily understood.

Then redo your layout and repost in this thread.
Sheila Kelly
Original Author
11 months ago
Thanks for the link. I read through it, but still just as confused as ever. I swear I'm really not illiterate. I think I'm just overthinking it. I was camping this weekend with my BIL who is also my contractor and he said we can figure it out once he starts the job. He has a ton of experience so I'm sure he'll know what to do. Still open to any advice though if anyone has any input. Thanks!
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Thanks davidtay; that is what I was thinking, I was just concerned that might be a little jammed to add one there. The ones at the island need to stay as they are to be the island task lighting. And I like the idea of having some by the front edge of the primary work spaces on the perimeter counters, even though I have the undercab lights going in too. Good point about the ceiling joists, we'll have to look at that.
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My opinion is that the two lanterns over your island and the hood will be too much with the two pendants next to the hood in the same line of sight with all of that and the windows. The hood and two pendants and windows is plenty to focus on. If this were my kitchen, I'd make those two recessed and do the pendant over the sink. We had an open plan where it could have easily been overkill with a lot of hanging fixtures. We have three pendants over the island and an informal chandelier over our parallel dining table. Along with that I put small Hudson Valley ceiling fixtures (Sutton) over the sink and window seat (in the dining area). They're unobtrusive and high enough that they don't disrupt the flow of everything else the way a pendant would. That could be an option for you. You can search my finished kitchen to see what we did. You may even want to opt for something like that over the sink (instead of a pendant) and recessed next to the range hood.
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Your contractor's layout is preferable, though moving the lights closer to the counter tops would be fine - between 24" - 30". If you use lights like the Cree CR4 or CR6, there will be sufficient spillover to augment the light from the pendants over the island in the center of the room. If the pendants provide insufficient light, they can be swapped out/ higher output led lamps may be used. Rationale The counter tops will be better lit with UCL than cans. Even if you do have the ability to put can lights over the counter tops, the distance to the counter top reduces the amount of incident light. There should be sufficient distance from the crown molding around the upper cabinets to the cans so that the trim can be fit and look properly spaced. A more regular pattern is preferable as it isn't like a random pattern of holes in cheese. Eyeball cans are more troublesome in the long run. The final location of the cans will be determined by the layout of the ceiling joists as well as obstructions above the ceiling board. There has been ample discussion on the DIY led recessed lighting guide for kitchens thread on this topic
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It need not be a medallion… found the article: https://homeguides.sfgate.com/center-light-fixture-junction-box-off-center-65276.html Here is a link to over sized medallions. https://www.architecturaldepot.com/ceiling-medallions-34.html
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3onthetree
11 months ago
Your kitchen is not that big or complicated so there isn't a whole lot to the lighting. The major mistake is this:

Otherwise, if you are gutting, opening a wall, all new cabs and finishes, for the money and time it might be good to look at all options for the layout, before lighting. The pinch point next to the angled cabinet looks tight (estimating 32"?) for high-use circulation.
Sheila Kelly
Original Author
11 months ago
last modified: 11 months ago
OK, I think I got it. I think what is throwing me off is a lot of these examples are a larger kitchen with an island that will have additional light. I do not have an island and my purpose for the ceiling lights is to light up the room - I'll have under cabinet lighting (placed at the front of the cabinet) for task lighting. I'm guessing I'll need both though from what you're saying.

Does this look better? I spread out the lights on the right to the edge of the counter (12" from the upper cabinet) and added a pendant over the sink. On the left I added one more in the middle and they are spaced 12" from the edge of the cabinets. I kept the one on the top left to help light up the walkway - is that OK?

I just want to be sure that the room is also bright because I'm going with dark wood cabinets so I don't want it to look too dark. We are doing a white quartz countertop and light blackspash as well - most likely white but waiting for the countertop to be installed before making a final decision.

As far as the clearance next to the angled cabinet it's about 36" with the countertop. I know it is tight and my KD did point this out. Unfortunately, in order to achieve a more workable kitchen I really don't have any other choice. I went through MANY different options before deciding on this layout. Unfortunately, the wall space on either side of the window is just under 33" and there is a marble windowsill that also juts into that space so options were limited. Also there will be an overhead beam going across the ceiling due to a coved ceiling in the dining room that I do not want to take out.

There is currently a microwave stand along that wall that only gives us 23" clearance and we've lived with that for 15 years so to me 36" is going to be a major improvement. Plus, the actual doorway is only 30" so I'm thinking we "should" be good. The cabinets are already ordered so I'll have to live with it either way.
Sheila Kelly
Original Author
11 months ago
last modified: 11 months ago

Attached are photos of the current kitchen if this helps. We are removing the soffits and most of the wall leading to the dining room - the top portion of the wall will remain as there are coved ceilings in the dining room. Also going with a 36" counter depth fridge instead of a 30" standard depth.
3onthetree
10 months ago
I'd say your revised lighting looks pretty darn good. I would just note that if your OTR microwave light is the old style 40W appliance 'bulb,' to switch it out to match the color and lumens of the UCLs you buy.

FWIW the UCL's are only supplemental for task lighting. Remember, the ceiling lights are needed to light up the interior of the uppers and lowers as well, without your shadow in the way.
Sheila Kelly
Original Author
10 months ago
Thank you so much for your help! The OTR microwave has a LED light. Not sure about the color or lumens but I can check the manual once it comes in.
Sheila Kelly
Original Author
9 months ago
So kitchen is finished with the light plan I posted. Only issue is my GC set the ceiling lights to 3500k instead of 3000k. I'm sure he did this to match the lights in the dining room but my under cabinet lights only have the option of 3000k 4000k or 5000k. I've tried different bulbs in the chandelier in the dining room and the pendant light above the sink and I think the 3000k gives more of a warm vibe. My questions are:

1. Does it look OK with the ceiling lights at 3500k and the pendant light and under cabinet lights at 3000k? I've read they should all be the same.

2. Is it even possible to change the ceiling lights to 3000k after they are installed?

Thanks in advance for your help!

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