I grew them years and years ago and neither one thrived here, having since moved on to the great garden in the sky. It's not really gallica climate here and most of my gallicas eventually failed, though Tuscany Superb and Rosa Mundi are happy to this day. But I do remember - vaguely - that they seemed different from each other. Just now I took a look in Suzy Verrier's book, and the striping pattern her photos show is quite different, Camaieux being boldly blotchy and Tricolore being heavily but finely striped.

They are fairly distinct, yes. 'Camaieux' is a larger flower, moderately double (about 35 petals), with coloring that gives the impression of pink-on-cream, shifting to grey/mauve on white.

'Tricolore de Flandre' is a smaller flower, more petals, and its a kind of multi-hued blackberry-on-white color.

Neither prosper here; both quite weak growers. In fact, I think 'Camaieux' finally faded away a couple years ago - I don't recall the last time I spotted it. In fact, I'm quite surprised that 'Tricolore de Flandre' has survived. I a rich, loose soil, these would likely perform better, but here they have heavy clay to content with.

Thank you!

I think Rogue Valley may have reversed the pictures for these two. The one they have for Camaieux is yours, Paul, but it looks more like your picture of Tricolore.

@User Yes, I'd say you're right about that.

@portlandmysteryrose I'm glad you awoke and posted pictures, Carol. Those are great. By the way, where did you get your Tricolore?

Have you guys noticed differences in foliage, prickles, habit, etc. as well?

As part of my Search for a Southern Gallica project, I bought RVR's Tricolore. I'm wondering if the plant will be correct or if it's a case of the names being swapped rather than the pictures.

@Rosefolly You have me thinking I should try Tuscany Superb if Tricolore doesn't work out!

As the blooms on Tricolor age, the colors turn to mauve/greys. So at any one time there is a range of color across the different aged blooms. It's quite nice.

@User

I am excited about your Gallica project! My Tdf very kindly and generously came from Paul, so I know it is the real deal, and I absolutely treasure it! When my young TdF grows up and throws some wayward stolons, I will pay forward the kindness and generosity and propagate it for others who are working hard to acquire it.

Since my TdF is much younger than my Camaieux, it is hard to compare foliage and prickles. Neither seem at all painful to work around, and although there is a bit of spotting on TdF's foliage in my photos, that probably means little. It is a baby, and our late spring weather last year was a long, cold drench. Some of my usually very healthy rosees completely defoliated. (Ahem...Zephirine Drouhin.) Both TdF and Camaieux are shorter Gallicas, and their stature works perfectly where they are situated. Both are pretty tidy growers, I think. Camaieux may spread a bit more, but honestly, it's not a problem to keep in check. More of a constant plodder once established, and like my Rosa Mundi, Camaieux is very popular and her striped loveliness and delicious fragrance inspire passers to enquire about starts. I may have to take a break from slicing off pieces of Camaieux at some point so it will finally manage to fill in its portion of the parking strip, and it can rest up a bit and produce more offshoots to propagate. I don't think TdF is a vicious spreader either. It is probably more mannerly than Camaieux.

Rosa Mundi is a fabulous striped Gallica! If @Rosefolly finds it successful and pleasing in her garden, it would likely grow very well for you. I am thrilled to hear that Rosefolly is growing Tuscany Superb in CA, too! TS is, as the whole forum must know by now, is my favorite rose. I grow a small hedge of it, and even then I could fill the garden with more if I didn't live on an inner city postage stamp. Just for fun, photos below.

Carol

Rosa Mundi

Tuscany Superb

Beautiful photos, Carol, as always! I’m glad Tricolore de Flandre is doing well for you. i need to move a piece to a more hospitable location - it doesnt like where it’s currently living. I’d hate to lose it (like my Camaieux).

I think Tuscany Superb deserves that name; its a remarkably beautiful thing. It’s also a fairly restrained grower, rarely exceeding 4x4 feet (in my experience), but it has excellent health and vigor. Photographs never adequately demonstrate the rich, velvety color and texture of the blooms.

If you’re looking for a healthy, strong-growing striped Gallica, you can’t do better than Rosa Mundi, as Carol states. It may not be the most dramatic of the striped roses, but its honest, unassuming charm is undeniable. The sheer volume of bloom it delivers is breathtaking.

Yes, a big thank you to Rosefolly for pointing me in the right direction if this round doesn't work out. I've always admired Rosa Mundi, and that Tuscany Superb is beautiful. The petals really do look like velvet, and the contrast of the wine purple with the yellow stamens is striking. (Thank you again for the beautiful pictures, Carol.)

I'm currently trialing Burgundian Rose, Tricolore de Flandre, Belle de Crecy, and Belle Isis. Unfortunately, TdF and BdC have already broken dormancy and have buds. They should still be asleep at this time of year, but the bright side is I'll get to see flowers at least once--and confirm the identity of Tricolore...or not. Burgundian arrived still actively growing, and still is. The same with Belle Isis, but I think that one might be mislabeled. Something about the foliage doesn't look right.

Anyway, I know it's a foolish path I've gone down, but I really enjoy experimenting. It's a lot of fun, and you never know....

Thank you, @User! I hope you can find a satisfactory spot for your TdF. So far, fingers crossed, mine is thriving. If you ever need another Camaieux start, just knock on my door. :-)

@User, I'd love to hear updates on your Gallica project! If I lived in CA, I'd try to grow a few Gallicas, too. My favorite rose class.

Carol

I love gallicas, too. Ones that have failed to thrive for me also include La Belle Sultane and Cardinal de Richelieu. The Cardinal is long gone. La Belle still persists, but with fewer canes each year (currently down to two). I'm not sure it actually bloomed last year. When it finally fails, I will not replace it.

I also grew Charles de Mills for a while but I simply don't remember what happened with that one. I think it suckered too badly for its spot, and by the time I made that decision I could not find a grafted source that was not on Dr Huey. Probably I removed it during one of my several downsizing steps. I'm growing a lot fewer roses than I once did, and a lot more natives, bowing to the reality of limited water supply.

It turns out Burling carries Tuscany Superb, and she is zone 9b according to HMF. So I'm definitely adding TS to the experiment now instead of later....

I don't see Rosa Mundi on her list at HMF, but I'll ask if she has that as well, just in case...

P.S. That's a shame La Belle Sultane hasn't thrived for you. It's one I've been tempted to try many times.

I have a hard time imagining 'La Belle Sultane' being anything less than a wandering thug in any garden. Perhaps @Rosefolly had difficulty with it due to climate? For me, it wanders around, building an ever-expanding thicket, in spite of the nasty rock hard clay that masquerades as "soil" where its living.

Note: just because Burling grows and sells some of these cold-climate Europeans doesn't mean she actually gets them to bloom. It may be a mistake to assume those varieties flower well in her climate (I suspect they don't).

Burling said TS does bloom for her, but I'm prepared for less than stellar performance.

I also ordered Alfred de Dalmas/Mousseline from her. I've always liked Ingrid's photos of it when she grew it.

I bought this as Tricolore, but I think it might be Camaieux. If so, then RVR has the names mixed up rather than the pictures. Unfortunately, what they're selling as Camaieux is out of stock, so I can't compare.

@User I don't believe that is either of those. It looks like 'Rosa Mundi' to me. Both 'Tricolore de Flandre' and 'Camaieux' are VERY double blooms - far more double than what you show here.

If the deep pink color on your rose stays pink, then its probably 'Rosa Mundi', but if it shifts to a darker grey-lavender hue as it ages, it might be 'Camaieux' exhibiting far fewer petals because its a juvenile. Maybe.

Thank you. Those thoughts crossed my mind as well, that it's too young to tell, or that it might be Rosa Mundi. I'll watch for the color shift. There's also a second bud, so I'll see what that one looks like.

@User, I agree with @User. Your Gallica looks like Rosa Mundi to me as well.

I wonder if some Rosa Mundis are mixed up with the RVR Camaieux stock. I, very oddly, have a Rosa Mundi growing in the middle of my parking strip Camaieux patch...where I have never planted Rosa Mundi. My Camaieux may have come from Rogue Valley, and I may have planted two separate 4" pots of 'Camaieux' and "Camaieux" alias 'Rosa Mundi'. This would explain the mystery that I've been trying to solve since bloom time last summer. (I have marked my lovely, stray Rosa Mundi for relocation or rehoming. Rosa Mundi is always a keeper.)

With that said, it sounds like RM grows well in your area since @Rosefolly adores hers. So, maybe the mix-up is a lopsided win for you?

I will have to wait for blooms on my parking strip cluster since I have Camaieux Reversions in the mix, but if you have trouble acquiring a Camaieux and if CA's restrictions will allow me to ship one, I could mail a stray stolon or two of my Camaieux to you. Just message me.

Carol

P.S. In case it helps to know this, Heirloom also seems to offer TdF mix-ups. Several of us on the Forum have Tuscany-like Gallicas that were sent as TdF.

Thanks, Carol. If this turns out to be Mundi, then it was a happy accident as it was one that does well for Rosefolly. I got the other, Tuscany Superb, from Burling. I put myself on the wishlist for RVR's Camaieux, assuming that might actually be Tricolore based on the photo. (So confusing.) Thanks for the heads up about Heirloom because I had put myself on notify for that as well even though I'm looking at the photo with suspicion. Thank you for the kind offer, but I'll hold off on getting more once bloomers for now. I'll see how these do. (I also have Belle de Crecy, Burgundian and Belle Isis.) BUT I may beg a piece of Tricolore from you if I'm unable to find the right one. I like the darker stripes of that one, and it seems to be the one more difficult to locate.

'Rosa Mundi' is by far the most sturdy, vigorous of the striped Gallicas, so maybe you've been done a favor. Annoying, though, to receive the wrong plant.

@User If you are still hunting when my TdF grows up a bit, you are more than welcome to a start! I suspect that you will get a real deal Camaieux, not TdF, from RVR if you order one, despite the online photo mix up. The most recent RVR Camaieux orders that I know of are all spot on. Carol

P.S. Just for fun, a photo of my Heirloom "Not TdF" below. It looks a lot like Tuscany-Tuscany Superb now. I think @ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9 made that educated naming guess back when I first posted about it on the forum.

That's good to know about RVR's Camaieux. High Country also carries Camaieux. They're currently out of stock, but I did notice they had some earlier this year, so I assume they'll restock eventually. ( And their photo looks like the real deal. ) But if RVR's and Heirloom's TdFs are wrong, then I'm afraid that leaves no sources in the U.S. for that one.

I do like the color of your Not TdF, though!