Hello Di, I gather you're new here and want to extend a warm welcome. Since I live in southern California there's no way I can be of assistance, but I was intrigued by your screen name. Since I have a rescue rat terrier I wondered whether your name had any connection with that breed.

I'm sure you'll receive lots of good suggestions. Old roses are exciting and can become a life-long passion. One stray thought I have is Boule de Neige since white and purple look so good together, assuming it's hardy in your zone.

Ingrid

I just planted a C de R last year & I planted Madame Hardy next to it because of a picture I saw of the 2 in bloom next to each other. Don't know if they'll be big enough to do much blooming next year. I also think something yellow might look good next to C de R.

Remember that the Cardinal is going to be impressive for about a month. Unless this is an out of the way place that can be ignored for the rest of the season, you'll want to consider plants that put on a show at other times. Things like ornamental grasses, balloonflowers, asters - you get the idea. Those things take up space. Some take up more space than the roses.

I just ordered a bunch of once-bloomers (mostly gallicas, with a few hybrid chinas as well). Mine are going in two strips underneath very tall limbed-up (or soon to be) evergreen shrubs (arborvitae, I think?). Due to root competition, I wanted to put only vigorous once-blooming roses there.

I already have Cardinal de Richelieu (dark purple) and Charles de Mills (deep red) in 2-gallon pots from last spring. Arriving next spring will be Belle de Crecy (mauve-purple), Duchesse de Montebello (pale pink), Georges Vibert (striped white and pink), Sissinghurst Castle (deep blackish red), Tuscany Superb (deep blackish red), Tricolore de Flandre (striped white and pink), Duchesse d'Angouleme (pale pink), and Nouveau Monde (pale pink). My plan was to simply alternate between light and dark, so that each sets off its neighbor and vice versa.

Once the roses get some size and spread near each other (I'm starting by planting 3' apart), I'm going to plant some low-growing type-2 clematis among them. These will bloom twice -- first around the time the roses bloom, and again after the heat of summer passes. I'm picking these because (in my climate -- central NJ near the coast), they don't require pruning. An alternative is to use type-3 clematis, which start blooming after the roses and continue until early fall (give or take), but these bloom on new wood and would need to be pruned back near to the ground every spring. I was hoping to leave these two beds somewhat to themselves, perhaps with occasional tidying up. I don't want to have to deal with pulling out all that vine growth from the roses every spring. In this way, even when the roses aren't blooming, they serve as living trellises for the clematis. And these two areas have been just "green walls" otherwise.

So how can this work for you? Cardinal de Richelieu has a beautiful dark purple color. If you plant it near something that will bloom at the same time, look for something somehow opposite -- pale pink, white, or even something in the apricot-yellow shades. That will let them set each other off. Also look for opposites in flower form -- tall spiky things compliment globular rose blooms well. Think about catmint, digitalis, etc. And for when the rose is out of bloom, you can let it become a trellis for a climber. If you don't want to commit to something perennial, you can plant some annual climbers to get an idea of how it'll look -- and if you don't like it, just don't replant the following year.

:-)

~Christopher

Christopher, I think you need to rethink your spacing. If you are planning on any sort of companion planting, 5 ft is pretty much the bare minimum. And own-root, gallicas spread. So you can't really wait for them to establish, then plan on moving them because you won't get all of it.

I do like the idea of digitalis, I hadnâÂÂt considered perennials. In addition to neighbors on the sides as seen above (thank you for the photos & suggestions!) I was picturing the Cardinal as a somewhat upright plant in front of which I could place a few lower growing roses, something re-blooming. Maybe White Pet? IâÂÂm questioning that design now because IâÂÂm confused about the growth habit. I'm reading about the spreading and suckering tendency. Will I get that with a grafted plant? Should I rethink the grafted plantâ¦what are pos & cons?

p.s. Ingrid, Ratdog is the name of a band.

{{gwi:212908}}

This is Oelleit Flammand (left bottom), Hebe's Lip (right bottom) and The Bishop. They are all fairly heavily pruned to keep them that height, and grow fairly straight up from large crowns. They started out life with about 4 ft between them, and spread out.

The difficulty I have in answering your question about grafted plants is that it is a very strong tradition here to bury the bud unions. It really is about the only way to get a HT through the winter. If you do that to a gallica, it will wander off the graft and turn into an own-root plant. If you don't bury the bud union, then ???? Will it die? Will it be OK until a bad winter? I don't' know, and I haven't run across any grafted hardy roses that I've been willing to risk.

Aside from that, grafted roses start out bigger, and are generally easier to establish in this climate. They also tend to come from Ontario, which in rose propagation terms, is right next door. So the nurseries have intelligent answers to questions.

For me, the biggest advantage of own-root is that I can do it myself, so the plants are a lot cheaper. None of the roses in that picture were purchased. All came in some sort of trade.

Mad Gallica -- thank you for the advice. I just might spread them out a little further, but I wasn't planning on putting much else in there, except for some clematis. I picked gallicas because I wanted them to spread and fill in an area that would otherwise be left empty, and figured they'd be better able to compete with the roots there. One spot is bordered by cement, and the other is separated from the lawn by a a retaining wall. The beds are three feet deep to the fence. The bed against the cement already has the evergreens limbed-up, while the other doesn't (yet). I figured on these two spots being just blocks of once-blooming roses, with clematis climbing between them -- maybe with a front edging of alyssum or some other annual.

I've come to learn how own-root gallicas spread, and so don't plan on putting them into the mixed beds. If I space them a bit wider and end up with two extra, I think I know where I can put them and they'll stay contained. Thanks again for the advice.

:-)

~Christopher

Ratdog: My Cardinal Richelieu hasn't the suckering tendency as say Tuscany Superb...maybe 1-3 suckers per year...and there is always a list of people who want the suckers! So my experience is that suckering is a non issue...other growers may have a different experience.

Your choice of short white companion roses may work...as Ingrid says, white and purple work well together.

{{gwi:328259}}

You may have to plant something like a purple clematis with the Cardinal to keep the purple/white combo going. The Cardinal doesn't have that long of a blooming period.

What are the flowers in the picture? The white splashed with purple is amazing!

I think the picture shows purple petals from CdR placed onto the white rose, to show the effect of the contrast.

:-)

~Christopher

because of this thread, I want a Cardinal de Richelieu!
Tell me more about it! Once blooming....and?

Why does it bloom only once?

Gallicas do not have the genetics for repeat blooming so only get about a 3-5 week bloom cycle in the spring, which is June in my z4 area. The shorter length will occur if you have a hot spring & the longer with cool weather. I've never run across a repeating Gallica so I just did an advance search on HMF crossing Gal/Hyb. Gallicas with all the different kinds of repeating.....only got about a half dozen hits back & they were roses that had just a little bit of Gallica but were classified as HP's or Portland Damasks.

thank you wirosarian....I am slowly learning rose classification & the traits...still this purple cardinal intrigues me...

Ratdog: The photo of the purple/white combo illustrates Burgundy Iceberg in all of it's schizophrenic splendor...never know what sporting (if any) you may get...more photos of it sporting can be seen in the link below. And Burgundy Iceberg is a sport itself.

I would have included a better photo of the Cardinal but I can never capture the color accurately...some roses are like that...especially in the purple range of the color spectrum. Perhaps other readers will post a photo that does this OGR's beauty justice. This is the best I have.

{{gwi:328260}}

Here is a link that might be useful: Burdundy Iceberg

My Cardinal de Richelieu grows at the end of a fairly narrow border surrounded by pale yellows and a little maroon. A pale yellow Leverkusen on an arch extends the flowering season with perennial yellow foxgloves. Nearest neighbour to the Cardinal is yellow Lichtkoenigin Lucia. Maroon Greek scabious is the weaver plant all over the planting. I plan to move American Revolution daylilies there to add to the sombre maroon colour.

I almost ventured a guess about the Burgundy Iceberg! Reminds me of my Purple Splash climber. I have Burgundy Iceberg in its third year, and last summer it grew one cane on which all the flowers were a streaky pink. I thought is was root stock at first until I heard about this odd tendency.

Does the Cardinal remain that deep purple for you or does it fade? I love deep colors and have been disappointed by most purples, Purple Splash being an exception.

The advice here has led me to re-think location. So now instead of making this a focal point in a new bed, I'm going to tuck him into a corner in front of some well established tall miscanthus grass. In June, the Cardinal will be visible from the street, a perfect spot for eye-catching color. Then when he's done blooming the grass will come up and hide his backside.

I've decided I want to go with white for neighbors. To start, I'd like a pair of similarly sized whites (repeat-blooming & fragrant!) to either side. It's a corner, so picture V-shaped positioning. I have a lot of cold winter evenings to search the web on this new quest. Then I'll be patient and watch how things grow next summer before deciding what to put in front.

That's my plan to now, subject to change on a whim, and my husband's willingness to move a rather large boulder.

Madgallica, I love the picture of what I think is your back garden, the roses and the tall oaks. Oaks have long been one of my favorite trees. It is unlikely (though not impossible) that I will ever again live in a cold winter climate, but if I do, I hope for a composition like that one.

Rosefolly

Yes, that is my backyard, and actually my house. Usually when I post pictures of my backyard, they are facing the other way, and pictures of my neighbor's house.

The tree are a couple of large pin oaks that are doing surprisingly well. The arborist said that pin oaks usually struggle here because of the high pH. I have a theory that those are doing OK because they have roots in the water table, and can move as much water as they want. So far my theory is working on a magnolia and a swamp azalea.

Ratdog,

Under my conditions, the Cardinal fades towards the end of the flower's life, not at the beginning...I could say the same about Tuscany Superb.

I'm impressed with your persistence in "Creating your own Eden"...and wanting to share it with those who see it from the street...good luck!

Wow, that was a reverting Burgundy Iceberg? That's really stunning! The way the petals looked I didn't think it was one rose. Beautiful contrast of the purple with the white.

:-)

~Christopher

Rosecavalier, off topic...I came across a photo of your Alba Semi Plena last night - what a marvelous sight. I have to share with you that when I began growing roses my father-in-law asked me if I'd ever heard of this rose, a.k.a. White Rose of York. Dad was a B-17 pilot in WW-II and his plane was named Rose of York. It's a bit hard to see but the photo below shows the nose art; that's Princess Elizabeth at the plan's christening.

Well, I'd looked up the rose previously and it didn't make much of an impression on me and I forgot about it. After seeing yours I've decided to grow one in Dad's honor; he'll be tickled. (No not next to the Cardinal! I have a great spot on the side of our old barn).

I have to say it is immensely helpful to find photos here of roses growing in real home gardens.

There's something that tickles me inside when there is a story behind a rose I grow...especially when it has to do with a loved one. And that is a wonderful story...with family history included...kinda shoves mortality to the back burner when the story is linked to a long lived rose like alba semi plena...keeps it alive...good choice!

Looking at the airplane nose art made me chuckle as I've often heard alba semi plena described as "bullet proof"!

I placed CR with clematis Arabella. But it is just 2 years old bush of CR

I placed CR with clematis Arabella. But it is just 2 years old bush of CR

{{!gwi}}

Thank you! This was exactly what I was thinking of doing, and I'm loving your choice in color. Do you use the climbers also, or the just the herbaceous perennial clematis? I'm hoping to add the herbaceous perennial clematis 'Wyevale' the year after I plant the roses for the fragrance and the blue color of the flowers.

:-)

~Christopher

I'm intrigued by combination of clematis (which I've never grown) and roses. I plan to give this a try. Would you wait for a rose to get established for a certain length of time before planting the clematis? Any favorite suggestions for a white?

Also, I'm now considering Kronprizessin Viktoria as a possibility to plant on either side of the Cardinal.