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Talking About Risotto

John Liu
last year
last modified: last year

Last night, SWMBO, I, and our friend R___, went to a standup comedy show. Well, one of did, because two of our tickets were bought for the wrong night. R___ went in and SWMBO and I went off to find dinner. We drove to a popular izakaya (Afuri on SE 7th), saw the packed crowds of diners who haven’t gotten the recession memo yet, circled around the dark drizzling blocks, found no street parking, and diverted to my default ”nice” restaurant.

This place is a well-established grandee of the Portland foodie scene, and more importantly it is in the ground floor of my office building. Not only does that mean we simply park in my space, but I have gotten to know some of the people who work there, and am kind of a regular. Even as a walk-in at 7 pm on a Friday night, I figured they could squeeze us in.

We had a remarkable cauliflower risotto. I mean, remarkable. Loose texture, soft but just-short-of-mushy rice, tasty liquid, pieces of cauliflower and bacon.

I want to make that dish, specifically. In general, I want to break out of my Risotto Rut. The particular rut I’m in is to make straight-up plain risotto, with more white wine than broth, and no added ingredients, flavors, or textures. I suppose I thought I was being a “purist” but now it’s just boring. I want to make Interesting Risotto.

How do you make risotto? Technique, recipes, variations? Loose or creamy, soft or softer? Wine more or broth more? Veg or meat added?

Also, has anyone developed a gluten-free risotto?

Comments (39)

  • colleenoz
    last year

    All rice is gluten free. Where does the gluten come in?

  • plllog
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Um... G-d made risotto gluten free. It's the stuff some people add that changes that.

    I'm a risotto snob. The way I learned is that you can make it with just arborio rice and water, and the rest is embellishment. I always do make it with stock and seasoning, stirring in stock as the starch sheds. Takes about 45 minutes to do right, but it's dead easy and one can do some prep on the side while standing there. Wine is fine if it's well cooked down, but not if one can taste the alcohol. For a quickie shot of flavor, try a little good vermouth, but I tend to be a purist. Sometimes, I'll use imported parm instead of salt, and a dollop of cream (creme fraiche) can be yummy, but neither should be needed and they shouldn't be crutches for the texture. The creaminess needs to be from the starch.

    I don't like the thrown all in a pan in the oven version, and not the steamed version. People claim it's the same, but it's just not, or at least not when I've tasted it. Maybe someone can make it work. The worst I've ever had was in fine dining, including one in a foodie mecca where it compared poorly to the sticky Spanish rice in my grade school cafeteria. I can't speak to camaroli or vialone nano and accept that they might be fine or better than arborio, but don't pull my leg and say the glop made from emmer (wheat) or pearl barley or whatever is ”risotto”.

    If I'm going to fancy it up, it's usually with interesting things added in the last five minutes. For harvest time, I like figs and caramelized onion, judiciously because they're sweet. Mushrooms are a given, going so well as they do. I like to do them in a way I learned from Julia Child. Slice thin, sauté in salted butter with minced shallots and add (cooking quality) port. When the mushrooms have exuded their liquid and the wine is mostly cooked down, cover and leave on low for 8-10 minutes. Uncover and stir until the liquid is absorbed or evaporated. For risotto break up any large pieces. Given the red wine, stir into the risotto at the last minute, so it won't go pink, or use a flavorful white wine instead of port. You can adapt risotto to any flavor profile, like a dollop of greek yoghurt, gyros meat and spinach. A take on picata, with lots of lemon juice in the broth as well as the end, and bits of chicken and capers at the end, I haven't tried chili peppers and chorizo, but like the idea...

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  • Olychick
    last year

    I don't have the patience to make risotto, but love it. One of my good friends makes butternut squash risotto that is fabulous and beautiful. I don't know what recipe she uses but this looks close. Hers doesn't have big chunks of squash, it's more of a puree.

    Butternut squash risotto

  • sleevendog (5a NY 6aNYC NL CA)
    last year

    I've been making risotto for thirty years, maybe more. More method than recipe. Firm/aldente but must flow on the plate like lava. Very creamy. Northern Italy and specifically Venetian.

    Once the prep and miropoix is started, then white wine ,then rice, then the first ladel of back burner warm stock is added, DH takes over the stirring. We start tasting at 15 minutes. I can tell if it needs 3-5 more minutes.

    I've never heard of or had plain. 80% of the time we make porcini/wild mushroom. Sometimes seafood or vegetable. The porcini makes excellent next day arancini so that is our favorite.

    I don't find it all a pain to make with teamwork. Even if he isn't available.

    The veg is usually garlic, shallot, fennel, celery, leek, parsley. Parm, romano.

    Anthony Bordaine in Venice


    Same restaurant but he gets back into the kitchen. Good stuf starts at minute 3.


    This is a similar metod to how i was taught.



  • jakkom
    last year
    last modified: last year

    There's a wonderful Ligurian restaurant in Alameda, CA called Trabocco. Owner/chef Giuseppe Naccarelli occasionally makes a risotto that is a shocking shade of fuchsia(!) from beets. He serves it with diced roast pork and it is an amazing combination.

    Sadly, I have no clue how he makes it. But whenever it's on the menu, I order it! And I normally am 50/50 about risotto, as I'm slightly allergic to rice (which is h**l for an Asian, let me assure you....).

  • John Liu
    Original Author
    last year

    I’m trying tonight. Cauliflower and shiitake. Homemade broth.

  • John Liu
    Original Author
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Oof, finished risotto but dinner is still an hour away. So it just gets to congeal until resucitation efforts can start. I did reserve a cup of broth for the CPR.

    Worse yet, I am informed we have four friends coming over. And that I was previously informed of this, and that if my mind declines further SWMBO will have no choice but to put me in a home.

  • linda campbell
    last year

    I first had risotto in a famous restauraunt in Venice that I forget the name of but could go directly to if you land me at st Mark's! it was so delicious I almost didn't eat any of the other courses...beef...creamy, juicy tender with a bit of bite....heaven on a plate!

    I love risotto and my best is made with leftover champagne as the wine....I often make mushroom with my home made chicken broth, but some times stir chopped spinach in at the end and some mashed garlic about half way through and finish with parm. And roasted red peppers are a nother favorite add in.

    John I hope you managed to salvage the cauliflower risotto...or rename it hate to think of you cooking from a memory care unit!

  • Islay Corbel
    last year

    I've never heard of an italian risotto made with rice and water. I'd do more like Sleeve, but I'd add the wine after the rice so it absorbs it. Cook it out then the stock. I'm personally not a fan of the Venetian sloppy type. There are so many authentic variations. There has to be one for your cauliflower variation LOL



  • floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
    last year

    Risotto is a regular meal in our house, at least once a fortnight, especially if we've had a roast chicken the day before. Same method as Islay. Sautee your onion or whatever, add the rice, then white wine goes in after the rice has gone translucent in the butter/oil, cook it off, start adding the stock and stir. I can't access the butternut recipe mentioned above but I can recommend this one. Butternut squash & sage risotto recipe | BBC Good Food


    This is a chestnut risotto I made a few weeks back after foraging the nuts. Absolutely delicious.



    A lot of fuss is made about the stirring but I find it a very easy and quite speedy meal. In my experience the stock doesn't even have to be hot, and the stirring doesn't have to be constant, although the recipes and mythology always say they should be.

  • John Liu
    Original Author
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Oh how I miss Anthony Bourdain. DD grew up reading his books and watching his shows. I enjoyed his brash, macho voice in Kitchen Confidential. DD liked the cooking but not the maculine aggression, hostility, and misogyny of the kitchens he chronicled.

    As she did more hiring and training in her camp kitchen, she kept the adrenalin, loud music, and manic spirit, while working in mutual support and respect, less fear, more women leading. Meanwhile we both watched Bourdain travel, learn, age, and grow.

    Always a champion of his immigrant cooks, he became outspoken in support of women in the industry, and his shows celebrated street food and the culture of poor and remote countries as much as any elevated cuisine. We loved him because we watched him change. DD told me that she disliked the early Bourdain, but revered the late Bourdain.

    I cried when watching “Roadrunner”. The only other biopic that affected me so much was “Senna”, itself a movie notorious for bringing grown men to tears while their significant others roll their eyes quietly - or, in SWMBO‘s case, loudly.

    And how I miss Venice. Recognizing the places in the second video, making notes on where to go and what to eat next time, wishing I were there for winter storms and acqua alta.

    Back to the risotto. My dish turned out okay. Very nice flavor, loose creamy texture, rice soft but not glutinous - the latter is often a fault in my risotto - but still not the flowing, pourable risotto of the Venice videos. We had the cauliflower shiitake mushroom risotto with a whole lot of steamed mussels. I added some of the mussel steaming liquid during my frantic resuscitation efforts, and that proved exactly the right thing to do.

    The third video was very helpful. It reminds me another thing I miss is watching cooking shows on TV. We haven’t had cable TV for many years, and with that went easy access to the Cooking Channel, Food Network, and all the entertaining and informative cooking content there. I guess a great deal of cooking available on YouTube, but with more distractions - while looking for risotto, I ended up watching a beaver and an otter who are best friends, a mechanic who rants and rhapsodizes about vintage Mercedes, the fall of FTX, FTT, and a bunch of other acronyms, and so on until it was time for bed, with nary a risotto video found.

    I didn’t know risotto was particularly associated with Venice, by the way. I think I’ll make the next one with fumet, or shrimp stock, with fish or shellfish and Prosecco.

  • plllog
    last year
    last modified: last year

    IC, I learned that from an Italian. The point is that it's about the shedding of the starch, not the other ingredients beside rice and water. Just as one can cook basmati with just water, one can make risotto from arborio with just water. The rest is embellishment. I can think of circumstances where one might do it in support of other dishes, but in normal circumstances, one wouldn't do it. Then again, my mother always cooked regular, long grain rice in stock, seasoned it, etc., whereas many just use water, so who knows....

    I agree with Floral that the stirring need not be totally constant, especially as it gets going, but I find it best to remain by the stove to be ready to stir. I have never met a decent risotto which wasn't built a ladle at a time and stirred to make the shedding happen, but people claim they can. Or maybe I'm just pickier than others. As I said, I've had really badly made risotto several times in fine dining restaurants, to the point where I avoid ordering it.

    John, I'm so glad the cauliflower risotto was brought back to life. Good job on the mussels liquid. That's such a wonder about any rice, isn't it? Anything with flavor can only make it better. ;)

  • Islay Corbel
    last year

    I think risotto is a bit like soufflé. Chefs make a real song and dance about it but it really isn't anything tricky to cook.

  • John Liu
    Original Author
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Of course, the problem with getting on a risotto kick is that it’s rice, which i’m not allergic to (sorry jakkom!) but my waistline is.

    I think I need to resume my search for a low calorie rice substitute.

    We need something about rice-sized, ideally light colored, that absorbs flavors (rice’s superpower), and that can cook down to be smooth and soft. It doesn’t have to release starch - the creaminess can be added.

    Maybe I should try shredding a cauliflower or a turnip in the food processor (Cuisinart to the rescue!) and cooking that in broth and Prosecco.

  • John Liu
    Original Author
    last year

    Islay, I am hopeless at souffles too :-(


    The weather is getting cold, so it’sa good time to stay inside and experiment with food.

  • sleevendog (5a NY 6aNYC NL CA)
    last year

    Late 80's through the 90's we met friends for ten years all over the city in restaurants once a month. Favorites and often tried new ones. Bobby Flay at Miracle grill, just a hired chef, then Mesa grill. Bourdaine was cooking at LesHalle late 90's. Flay and Bourdaine were 'bad boys' at the time. Our friend knew both of them well. Flay and Bourdaine always visited our table. At the time i found them obnoxious, lol. But Flays pork chop was killer good. Ordered every time.

    My risotto is a memory from Venice.

    I want that and do it as best i can. Not comblicated. But has a 'method'. We just happen to enjoy the process being a first recipe together as engaged youth living together.

  • John Liu
    Original Author
    last year

    Food is memory. The best kind.

  • Islay Corbel
    last year

    Cauli risotto is very popular. Who'd a thunk it! https://www.soscuisine.fr/recette/risotto-cremeux-chou-fleur

  • Gooster
    last year
    last modified: last year

    I've discovered that risotto is even easier in a thick copper saucier, like the Falk one I own. This is one of the cases where the pot really helps you, because you can be downright inattentive with the stirring. But I always do like the third video -- but I usually start with shallots and always have broth on simmer (I've seen reciepes with salted water, but even a simple fresh vegetable broth is better --- put your mirepoix fixings in the water). It usually is 1 cup rice to 4 to 5 cups liquid, 1/2 cup wine. Avoiding constant dousing with cool liquid seems to be a key.

    In the springtime it is with things like asparagus and favas. Sometimes with proteins, but always on the side. For a richer treat, I'm been known to stir in some Boursin cheese (I know, the horror).

    I can't understand poorly done restaurant risotto --- mostly in America, sadly. I don't often order it as a standalone, but under a bed of scallops or similar seafood I quite enjoy it. I have had an excellent truffle risotto as well, with slices across the top.

  • plllog
    last year

    I think the quality of the rice might also be a factor. The very first time I made risotto, I followed the directions on the arborio box, and it came out perfectly. I think it was Scotti. I got a huge jar (commercial size) of not-Italian arborio in a gift basket from an event, and it didn't make such a good risotto. Okay, but not perfect. It could have been me, or the rice might just have been a little old and too dry, but I consigned it to other uses, and went back to the blue box.

  • sleevendog (5a NY 6aNYC NL CA)
    last year

    I agree about the quality. Most are cryovacked tight. During lock-down i just ordered what i could get and not familiar. Why we set the timer at 15min after the riso goes in.

    A shame so many, even the NYTimes, has risotto hacks using instapots, etc.

    Proper risotto just needs attention but not full on stir. I can stay nearby, load the dishwasher, clean the sink and counter....prep,/gather recycling...

  • l pinkmountain
    last year
    last modified: last year

    I prefer real pearl barley to risotto. It's naturally creamy, nutty tasting and low gluten. We make short grain brown rice in the instapot and like that better than risotto rice, better "tooth" IMHO. Starchy though. You can keep feeding barley with chicken broth and it just gets creamier, which is a way to get something of comfortable starchiness but not a lot of fat.

    Otherwise finely dice cauliflower, stir fry and mix with whatever you like that makes it taste like risotto to you. For me it would be a mix of bacon and maybe a bit of cheese sauce that was cheddar with parmesan. Or just sautee in evoo and put on lots of parm and avoid having to fuss with any type of sauce. Maybe add some buttered bread crumbs and put under the broiler. Ooops, starch. I'd hardly call any of that waistline friendly though. If you want to save your waistline, just make some really good risotto and only eat about 1/3 cup of it, and savor it. Fill up on salad ahead of time.

  • lat62
    last year

    My favorite risotto ever is Lemon and eggplant risotto from Yotam Ottolenghi 'Plenty' . Everything in that book is outstanding. Here's the recipe from the guardian:


    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2008/feb/23/foodanddrink.shopping1


    I once served Risotto as a main course (Paul Bertolli's shrimp and tomato risotto) to friends and treated is as the main course..... they said 'where's dinner'? . Haha, joke was on them.


    Risotto scene from the movie 'Big Night' :




    My favorite thing to elevate a simple risotto is saffron.


  • dcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m
    last year

    "---- The weather is getting cold, so it’sa good time to stay inside and experiment with food. ---"


    Yeah, because I have no patience to spend time stirring and stirrrrrrring, so I experiment with many different ways and ingredients to make risotto. I am sure you don't consider most of what I make risottos.

    For instance, I use the bread maker to cook and stir rice, I use the Vitamix to make rice very creamy then add regular cooked rice, etc.


    dcarch

    John Liu thanked dcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m
  • beesneeds
    last year
    last modified: last year

    You use a breadmaker?!? Please do share that trick, I would for sure try it.

    When I make a regular risotto it's pretty basic. Sweat aromatics in fat, add rice and cook till translucent. Add liquid impact flavor- often wine, sometimes other things like juices, vinegar, fish sauce or soy, ect. Once that's soaked up start ladling in the warm cooking liquid. I rarely use just water, it's usually something flavored. Stir on the regular to keep everything working and soaking and making it go goo. Toss in other stuff as it's finishing up.

  • dcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m
    last year
    last modified: last year

    "----You use a breadmaker?!? Please do share that trick, I would for sure try it. ----"

    Sure, essentially:

    1. Use the bake cycle to cook the rice.

    2. After the rice is cooked, depending of what kind of rice you are using and the brand of bread maker you have, separate the cooked rice in two parts.

    3. Use the kneading cycle of the bread maker to do all the stirring. You may need to cover the basket to prevent splashing from the stirring.

    4. Combine the cooked rice and the stirred rice, add seasonings and other ingredients and cook some more.

    5. eat.

    dcarch

  • Olychick
    last year

    I've been wracking my brain to remember some fabulous risottos I've had over the years. It is almost always my go-to if it's on the menu in a fine dining restaurant. Like I said above, I am too lazy to make it at home plus I am not good at cooking things that require attention and patience. I finally remembered one stand out risotto I had somewhere in Seattle, which was squid ink risotto. Beautiful and delicious. NYT has a recipe, if you're inclined

    https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1018044-risotto-nero-with-squid

  • sleevendog (5a NY 6aNYC NL CA)
    last year

    We enjoy the art of cooking especially traditional recipes that have been a part of our family for years. I also have no issues with those that just want food on the table using shortcuts. Most can be excellent. I'm all ears when something works.

    If i had a large family and extended family over often i'd have three instapots.

    We like cooking together and kitchen time together. Pulling out appliances is so unsavory, when cooking traditionally is so satisfying and not much more time at all.

    We made three new meatless recipes last week, ---not planned at all to be meatless...and a new recipe tomorrow.

    We have cut way back on carbs, lots of veg.

    We all learned a bit from covid lockdown---make it the way you like it, use what you have, call it what you want. No judgement.

    "Devi cuccinare così come ti piace, altrimenti non hai capito il senso del mangiare." :”You have to cook the way you like it. Otherwise you haven't understood the meaning of eating."

    I might be repeating myself. 10 or so years ago we made porcini risotto for my parents and a few family members over a holiday visit. Similar to experiences posted above.

    Dad shovels in food all day from me making apps and veg plates and chartucterie and filo wrapped crap and mini crab cakes, oyster stew....when i served our gorgeous porcini risotto---

    "is this rice?"...looking at the stovetop for another protein. "rice for dinner?". "it is good but i don't get it". Lessons learned. I keep it simple at home with the family.


  • claudia valentine
    last year

    John, the appeal of risotto IS the starch. If you cant, or dont want to, eat starch like that, then maybe risotto is NOT what you want. It is referred to as being "creamy" but the reality is that it is starchy and that is the basis of the appeal.


    I make risotto but I dont constantly stir it. Just hang around and give it a periodic stir.

    I love rice and I love risotto.

  • l pinkmountain
    last year
    last modified: last year

    You could make riced cauliflower "creamy" by adding a cream sauce, but that would be thickened with some kind of starch. You could also use butter, cheese and maybe some sour cream or condensed milk to make a sauce but I have no experience with that. My attempts at low fat creamy sauces have been poor, but I do know you can use way less than most recipes call for and it is still good. I tend to just use parmesan and butter to get a creamy-ish sauce, but you can also add a dab of cream too. I've seen recipes where people thicken cream by cooking it but I haven't tried that. I don't usually have cream around so if I wanted to add "cream" it would be low fat sour cream or neufchatel cheese, since that is what I have on hand. I don't use cream enough to have it on hand without it going bad.

  • sleevendog (5a NY 6aNYC NL CA)
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Lots of shelf stable milk products available and milk does freeze well. As does small containers of greek yogurt. I keep a stash of powdered goat and buttermilk. Rarely use it.

    I like to use blendered roasted vegetables for a thickener in soups and gravies.

    Alex Guarnaschelli uses roasted veg (blendered) in her holiday gravy...no flour.

    Lock-down i purchased a big 4-5 pound bag of riced cauliflower. Cheap. Went through it quickly. (i don't think MrSleeve even knew i was using it) Cooked in stock with celery, onion, and some cubed roasted butternut or acorn squash makes a nice 'cream' when blendered. I added a few dried soaked wild mushroom for this years vegan gravy. (have not needed to cook vegan/gluten free since holidays 2018). Made a veg stock and a couple pints of veg gravy last weekend for thanksgiving and x-mas. A few pints of veg stock for wild rice/mushroom stuffing/dressing.

    My sister will eat eggs, tamari, tahini, miso, some grains/rice and certain beans. All the seeds. Some hard goat cheeses. No other dairy. So not difficult to make flavorful dishes.

    I'm sure a good low/no carb risotto can be done. I would finish with a good nutty romano instead of a heavy dairy cream.

    I doubt i would attempt risotto for either family having this seasons meals already maped out. My sister is chill about making her own meals if mine does not fit her diet. I accomadate for the main holiday meals. Same with MrSleeves family.

    I have a half dozen HoneyNut squashes in cold storage. Acorn and delicatta. Looking for recipe ideas i came across this risotto.

    Not a bad primer recipe for a creamy risotto without the carbs. Replacing the riso with creamy veg.



  • plllog
    last year

    Thanks for the reminder about thickening with veg. I always forget. So you're saying to dress the finished rice with that instead of a splash of cream?


    BTW, the ”constant” part of the stirring is to keep the rice from burning, Some stirring is needed to help the shedding of the starch, but given a heavy pan, and lower temperature, so you don't get scorch, there's plenty of between time for other stuff. I keep my eye on it, though.

  • moosemac
    last year

    I use homemade chicken broth, dry vermouth in my risotto and freshly grated parmesan or romano cheese with a little butter and a dash of heavy cream. The rest I ad lib some times I add mushrooms, bacon or chicken.

  • l pinkmountain
    last year

    I have used pureed butter beans and also tofu to sub for some of the cream in a creamy sauce or dip, like spinach artichoke, for example. Not all of it, I do use some dairy, just about half. But butter beans are starchy. They do help cut down on fat though, as does a squash or potato mashed up. I have a recipe for garbanzo bean sauce on pasta that is good. Oh yeah, nut butters work as well, but they do impart a definite taste that is not what we would usually associate with "cream." I haven't tried cashew though. It is used in a lot of vegan cream sauces. I have some in the pantry waiting for me to have time to try it.

  • mxk3 z5b_MI
    last year

    I make risotto occasionally. I am another who does not stir constantly - just a swirl or two or three every few minutes. I make mushroom the most, but I do have a good vegetarian cookbook (Vegetarian Cooking for Everyone) with what looks like a lot of good recipes I keep meaning to try. I typically don't add heavy cream -- it ends up too rich for me, IMO a well-done risotto doesn't need the added cream. I also have made barley risotto, that is also quite good, but if I'm going to OD on starch I'd rather have the good stuff.

  • plllog
    last year

    I've had a number of cashew cream sauces at vegan fine dining. At their best, they don't taste like cream, but have the same silky feel. at their worst, they're like watered down nut butter, but tste more like cardboard. The good ones are very very good. I haven't tasted enough different types to make any sweeping statements, but I've tried the oat and seed milk from Three Trees and it's thinner but actually tastes like milk with an oaty finish, and has a decent amount of protein. Risotto is risotto, however, and if it's not rice giving starchy goo, it's not risotto.

  • sleevendog (5a NY 6aNYC NL CA)
    last year

    I think it can be done if a restaurant chef is passionate and creative. If the menu says "low carb wild mushroom and leek risotto" i would hope it to be, even expect it to be, very similar to a more traditional risotto. Lots of flavor from blendered roasted vegetables. Umami from spices and a bit of miso, ginger, lemon,

    I found a pic in my grocery photo file. It was 5 pounds.


    I'll pick up another bag after the holidays for 'meatless January'. Not completely 'meatless' because we use a variety of seafoods in moderation. Just lots of broths, chowders, veg/sprouted grains/seed/noodle bowls.

    I think the mistake is using cauliflower rice on its own as a side dish rice replacement like those that hated quinoa on its own. Without some flavor/spice. DH does not like cauliflower but the last giant head i tossed the small florets in chili crisp, then roasted. He loved it. That head was so enormous i used it in 4-5 meals.


  • plllog
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Hm. I'd expect the low carb to come from less rice, not no rice. No issues with, ”Our Sixth Harmony Wild Mushrooms with Leeks, is a creamy dish which will remind you of a riceless risotto, with the rich flavors of the forest brought into the light.“


    And notice it's ”riced cauliflower“ on the bag, which is hyper correct, probably because people would complain if there were no rice in their cauliflower rice, even though it has come into widespread use to say it that way.