I never had much luck in my attempts to control the size of my Cramoisi Superieur. It was too vigorous and well-adapted here to respond well to my frequent pruning (I tried to keep its size manageable for my small garden space). Like Patrick said, its canes were going everywhere and mine always looked "butchered". The bloom form, repeat frequency, and scent were always top notch through it all. It desperately wanted to get big, but I couldn't let it. In comparison, at a local public natural rose garden in my suburb (LISDOLA garden), Cramoisi Superieur has been allowed to grow to its full, natural size and shape. It appears to have NEVER been pruned. When allowed to do so, upon maturity, Cramiosi is a very graceful, productive, and healthy plant for my area. It's the first rose I check on when I visit there. It's my favorite china, if only I had the space to let it do what it wants to do. Randy

Avalon, I just came to that conclusion myself - that RPN's Cracker Pink is very much like Caldwell Pink/Pink Pet. I hadn't grown that rose so didn't know to check it, but it hit me this morning to question what else it could be. Hopefully, it doesn't get any bigger than White Pet because I have it in a pot. It's been putting on growth that doesn't look like it wants to be a mini which is what I was expecting. Tammy, haven't seen Pam's website so can't compare. My LP is very pinkish in the middle. Others say white in the middle which may be semantics. The mix of white and red looks pink to me. Florida's LP looks nothing like FL's CS to me which is very globular and dark with an occasional red streak - I believe. For some reason I was not successful in growing it - climber or bush. They both balled really badly throughout the year. Very disappointing. Sherry Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

I am in zone 9 and I have a lovely LP (the Cracker Rose as it is known locally). It is now over 8 feet tall, thornless and has a great fragrance. It has been in the ground for 6 years. When I counted, last year, it had 15 flushes at least and this year the blooms are very large and have a lovely deep color. Sorry, no camera. Wonderful fragrance, but not for cutting. I got a cutting from somewhere in Tampa and rooted it successfully. It is near our entryway and a seating area. Right now it has over 20 blooms on it. I do not spray and it is spotless. Also, I am erratic with the fertilizer. I think I got some twice this year and I forgot the epsom salts, too. ThonotoRose

I do absolutely nothing for blackspot. I refuse to be a slave to my roses. :-) I have quite a few old garden roses, and they're very tough. Most of mine have been in the garden almost nine years, so they're established, and black spot isn't noticeable. The old garden roses in the China class do the best for me (Louis Phillipe, Old Blush and St. David are some Chinas I have in my garden). I also have a hedge of the bright magenta colored Knockout roses in an area that only gets afternoon sun. They're fine. They'd bloom more if they got more sun, but they're doing really well. I prefer Louis Phillipe to Knockouts. I personally think Louis is less maintenance. My Knockouts look a little ratty if I don't deadhead them, but Louis doesn't look too bad if I don't get around to deadheading. Size could be an issue. Louis Phillipe will get gigantic if left to its own devices - 7'x8' easily. In my experience, Knockouts don't get as big. Louis Phillipe has a nice spicey fragrance, whereas I can't detect any scent in my Knockouts. But as far as your location and the amount of sun, I think Louis Phillipe or Knockout would bloom about the same there. I've seen huge bushes of Louis Phillipes growing in very shady areas in St. Augustine and they had blooms. Have fun! OGRs are an addiction!