This is a picture of my Cramoisi Superieur. My Lois Philipes just are not pretty. To me the difference is that CS has a subtle white glow. Possibly I see a difference because CS is very large, and LP just isn't thriving well.

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Beats the heck out of me. I'm told that LPs were often sold as CS - and that seedlings of both were sold under both names - it's almost impossibly confusing. We have eight or ten red chinas in the cemetery. If you cut blooms of each and lined them up, I don't think I could tell which one was which. I do think the growth habit may be different - the rose we grow as CS is more open and spreading, with somewhat angular growth, while LP is more upright and densely twiggy. But who knows if we have them identified correctly!
Anita

My CS is fragrant.
So much so today that I could smell it as I passed by
WAFTING THROUGH THE SCREEN DOOR!
Pictures I have seen of both "side by side" match your different descriptions.
My CS portends to great width, so I keep it in reign with a little clippering in the Winter.
albin

My CS is from Chamblees. It grows wide and angular. The fragrance is among my favorites. I don't have LP.

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Here's my 'Louis Philippe'.
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You can see the whitish tones in the center. All the parts in LP (as we grow it in Europe) are thinier and smaller than C.S. (which never have those white markings on the petal's edges, more often a few white flecks in their central petals, as you can see in the climbing version too).
But, like Anita said, it can be difficult to distinguish one to another, especialli in the heat of summer months.

Ciao!
Maurizio

The whitish appearance is the difference between mine. I have one CS and two LP. LP's are older, but have never really taken off. They do not have the whitish appearance. CS does. My camera shot is not as sharp as the others here, but the whiteness is the difference between the two.

Who knows? White may be the difference, but if the seeds were mixed, maybe nobody knows which is which.

Sammy

Hey, ya'll, for those of you that have both - how do the fragrances compare? I love Cramoisi's but have never smelled LP - any difference?

They have the same, sweet fragrance (that I find to be typical of many of my Chinas, like 'Archiduc Charles' or 'Old Blush', etc).

Sammy, "[Louis Philippe]..... They do not have the whitish appearance."
They must to have it*, to be LP! 'Cramoisi Supérieur' has often a white fleck on central petals.

*Cfr - William Paul "The Rose Garden" (1848):
"The Crimson Chinese Rose:
LOUIS PHILIPPE ; flowers dark crimson, the edges of the centre petals almost white, of medium size, full ; form, globular ; Raised at Angers."

or Robert Buist, "The Rose Manual" (1844):
"China. Louis Philippe has not an equal for growth [...]; the flowers are large, perfectly double, of a globular form; the circumference of the bloom is of a dark crimson colour, the centre a pale blush, making it altogether perfectly distinct from any other rose in cultivation..."

Ciao!
Maurizio

Marizio, in your opinion, which one is this? I bought it as Cramoisi

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thanks,
Carol

My heavens that is a pretty rose, Carol.
la

The blooms on my CRAMOISI SUPERIEUR, purchased from Countryside Roses, look just like the one in Duchesse-nAlabama's pic. Loosely double, deeply cupped, inner petals white to cherry pink, outer petals bright red (turns completely red in high heat and direct summer sun). Definitely fragrant, redolent of ripe cherries and the smell you get when you cook sugar into caramel; moderate to strong in intensity. Unattractive growth habit - sparsely foliated, wiry canes shooting out in all directions. Attractive in an herb garden but ugly as homemade sin in a formal rose garden. A keeper because of the pretty flowers, non-stop repeat bloom, and superior disease resistance. Just make sure to put in plenty of companion plants.

I never had much luck in my attempts to control the size of my Cramoisi Superieur. It was too vigorous and well-adapted here to respond well to my frequent pruning (I tried to keep its size manageable for my small garden space). Like Patrick said, its canes were going everywhere and mine always looked "butchered". The bloom form, repeat frequency, and scent were always top notch through it all. It desperately wanted to get big, but I couldn't let it.

In comparison, at a local public natural rose garden in my suburb (LISDOLA garden), Cramoisi Superieur has been allowed to grow to its full, natural size and shape. It appears to have NEVER been pruned. When allowed to do so, upon maturity, Cramiosi is a very graceful, productive, and healthy plant for my area. It's the first rose I check on when I visit there. It's my favorite china, if only I had the space to let it do what it wants to do.

Randy

Randy--how big is the CS in Lisdola? I just acquired a CS and am planning to put it in a 6 foot diameter area. Will it outgrow its spot?

Thanks,
Joanne

Joanne, it is about 7 ft tall and probably just as wide. You might have to do a little light pruning eventually, but I would think you'd be alright.

Randy

delicious great shots

How large are the flowers on these roses? I purchased CS and LP from Chamblees but the flowers are these are small without any fragrance (however, I have problems detecting the scent on some old roses).

Randy, thanks for the comment about how CS looks upon maturity w/o pruning. I've never been tempted to prune my chinas but CS is such a wild looking thing I'm sure glad to hear your comment.