Can you add steps from the left end of the porch and a walkway around to the garage? I think you’ll find it well-used.

Um, the master bath, though…

IMO it looks like a compuund and not a home at all which IMO is what you had before,I have no idea why an architects computer cannot do this in 3D even Ikeas planner can do that. Maybe i am just confused as to why you bought this style of house and now completely changing it. No to moving the garage forward it already is too big IMO for the original house . I am not getting a feel for this house at all I loved the original, it looks like you have a large lot so maybe better pics of that might help.I think anytime the garage is bigger than the house the plan is bad. How many bedrooms do you need? I never like bedrooms above garages so probably that is my mind.I know I am being very negative but honestly I think you should have bought a different house or built from scratch.

@bpath We had thought about adding a 2nd set of stairs from the left porch around to the garage. We will reconsider that. We decided against adding a separate door into the mudroom addition (and instead adding a window) because I can build additional cubby space around a window and we would use that more than the door.

Could you provide more feedback on the master bath? The master bath is currently TINY and we are converting part of our bedroom space into this. I didn't see a problem with the design but I'm open to any feedback.

Does the house look too lined up in a row? That's what I want to avoid.

@Patricia Colwell Consulting Thank you for your honest feedback. In a perfect world, we would have purchased land and built a home from scratch, as this home and style is not what I would have built on my own. However, undeveloped land is not an option where we live and we are very lucky to have stumbled across this gorgeous property. It's on 7 acres and thus making this house work for us was the only way to get the land and privacy that we wanted. The house is a 4 bedroom (4th bedroom is in the basement) thus why we are adding a bedroom above the garage. We have a large family and the bedroom space is needed. A bedroom above the garage does not bother me.

A detached garage is an option in terms of land / space - HOWEVER I would absolutely regret a detached garage. Dragging groceries for our large family / many kids out through the rain - muddy feet, etc. is not desirable to me.

We are still in the design phase so if you have any specific ideas I would love to hear them. I don't want it to look like a compound. However the addition and a 3 car side loading garage are must-haves in whatever we design. And must go to the left of the current home (despite being on 7 acres, the current house is relatively close to the property line on the right side).

Thanks!

I wouldn't move the garage any farther forward. I think the set back of the mudroom will be helpful, and you don't want the garage to overwhelm the house. I do think the façade of the garage leaves something to be desired. Maybe it's the size of the windows on the ground floor? Or the roofline. Sorry I can't put my finger on it, but it doesn't seem to match as well as it could.

As for the master bathroom, I think the problem might be walking straight into the toilet (even in its tiny cubby), also the bump-bum sinks might get annoying. How important are two sinks and/or a WC to you? I'm not a fan of either, especially with the hall bath right there. Removing one or both could open up a world of better layouts for the master bath.

@G W Thank you for your feedback. I had told the architect that I wanted the roofline of the garage to "follow" the roofline of the original house (whereas I know a lot of additions have the direction flipped, see photo below). I had thought the direction of the roofline being flipped made it look too much like an addition "plopped" on. However, I can't figure out what's missing either - should I reconsider having her redesign it with the garage angle flipped? In terms of windows - any specific suggestions?

For the master bath, my one concern with the design was walking into the water closet and seeing the toilet. She did present us with another option (water closet where the sinks are). However I didn't like that because the double sinks were next to each other in that plan and I want to be separate from my husband. We did consider expanding into the hall bathroom, but after doing the math it just didn't add enough space or present enough additional design opportunity to be worth it to us. The water closet is a must-have for my husband. The separate double sinks are a must have for me. How it all goes in the room, we are completely flexible. If you have any suggestions let me know. There is a pocket door on the toilet room. Probably wouldn't close it daily but for guests at least it is there.

Example of flipped roofline which is what I thought I didn't want, but maybe I need to reconsider?

I think the front facing gable that you show on the drawing above is more attractive. It makes the mass look less monolithic, and it is not an uncommon style in existing homes.

@res3d Does 3d renderings I believe.

I think anything to shrink the mass of the garage relative to the main house would really be helpful.

@doc5md Yes, I think that's what is bothering me as well. I'm unsure as to how to do that though without making the garage smaller, which is not what we want to do. Any suggestions are very welcomed.

@kandrewspa Thank you so much for your feedback. I agree.

The photo you posted a few posts up will drastically help alleviate the massing of the home that feels so overwhelming now. I would reconsider your initial thought of "continuing the roofline."

My vote: Flip that roofline!

@User Thank you so much! Any architectural suggestions that would prevent it from looking like a straight "A" of white brick if we were to flip the roofline? I've emailed our architect but would love any additional input. I think that's what made me originally think I didn't want the front facing gable...some poor designs just look like a blank "A" on the front of a house to me. But i'm unsure on how to prevent that....

I'd try to make the garage come off as more of a dependency as opposed to looking like an extension of the existing house. The roof pitch over the mudroom doesn't have to be the same pitch as the other roofs.

As far as your setback question, only the local code people can answer that.

Can you locate the garage so everything is more of an "L" shaped structure? Like this:

Is this person really an architect? I ask because looking at a drawing it's easy to tell if it was drawn by an architect or not. And almost all architects these days have 3D capability. Check with your state license board.

The mudroom door will really interrupt the living room. i know you want the cubbies by the window, but can the door be moved either closed to the front of the living room — there’s kind of a natural placement for it anyway, with the foot of the stairs directly across — or between the dining and living, which is a natural path to the master and kitchen, so cargo and people aren’t traipsing around in the living room?

Never mind. What I thought was a closet is actually the fireplace.

@Architectrunnerguy We have thought about setting the garage way back like your drawing. And being on 7 acres, we do have the land. However, the septic system runs straight through where the garage would be if we set it back like that. We could have the lines moved, however that is a significant expense and we would prefer to not move the septic if at all possible.

I stand corrected. I looked at the business card and she's actually a designer providing drafting services. That was my mistake for misusing terminology when describing her services.

I agree with ARG, I was just trying to figure out a way to say it nicely.

The layout of the spaces seems convoluted and inefficient. Certain existing factors may contribute to the reasoning for the design the way it is, or the designer needs to expose their talents more (see ARG's comment, "Is this person really an architect? . . . . Check with your state license board.).

There is a lot more information needed to provide viable advice. This thread should be listed under "Remodeling", it is not "Building a Home"; they are two different beasts.

In the master bath, i expect the toilet is currently next to the shower, where the linen is planned. Keep the toilet there. Run the sinks across the back wall. The shower and toilet should still have room to be in their own room.

In the laundry room, swap the machines woth the sink. You want counterspace to one side od the sink, and a window over a sink is much easier to open and to clean than a window over a washer.

Building on bpath's bathroom suggestion...you don't want to have sinks together....would a tower between the two provide enough seperation?

Find a local architect.

We have had the plans drawn up by an architect.

I like the floor plan the architect drew for you, but I do not like the image of what the exterior will look like. It's too bulky, and (unless the previous owner was kind enough to leave you a load of bricks out back) additions never "quite match" the original ... it's better to have your garage "set back" instead of trying to make it look like it was part of the original building.

We cannot move the garage addition significantly further back due to running into septic & a back porch

Too bad the septic tank is where it is. How far could you set it back? Just where is the septic tank. What I'm thinking:

- Even if you could do just a 10' or so setback, it would be enough to make the garage look like a secondary structure /not the equal of the house.

- Does the garage have to be off to the left? Could it run straight back?

- Could you place the garage to the back /put the laundry and mudroom into a connector? Breezeways are very popular in our area. Essentially this is a way to have a detached garage ... but have it connected to the house.

- Alternately, you could put the laundry /mudroom to the left, as the architect has drawn, but also have a Connector (enclosed or just a covered walkway) to connect to the garage.

In our situation we are basing the setbacks from the corner of the house, not the corner of the porch. Do you agree that's the way to go?

Yes.

3) Would you move the addition and/or garage further up or back?

Back.

Thank you for your honest feedback.

You are awfully kind to be grateful for that.

we are adding a bedroom above the garage. We have a large family and the bedroom space is needed. A bedroom above the garage does not bother me.

Will the above-garage bedroom have its own entrance /be a separate space? The house in which I grew up (where my brother still lives) has a one-bedroom apartment connected by a breezeway, and it has been SO USEFUL to my family in so many ways over the years. I think you'd be very happy if you set it up so it can be treated as a separate living space with a separate entrance and separate utilities.

you don't want the garage to overwhelm the house.

Yes, that's maybe what I dislike about the architect's exterior rendering ... the garage is "too much" for the house to support.

As for the master bathroom, I think the problem might be walking straight into the toilet

(even in its tiny cubby), also the bump-bum sinks might get annoying. How important are two sinks and/or a WC to you? I'm not a fan of either, especially with the hall bath right there. Removing one or both could open up a world of better layouts for the master bath.

Agree with all, weird layout ... but if you incorporate the two back-to-back bathroom spaces, you have a world of options.

I had told the architect that I wanted the roofline of the garage to "follow" the roofline of the original house

I personally prefer the "turned" roofline ... that is, a garage that presents a "letter A" to the front. If you "make it different", you excuse yourself from the pressure to "make it match", a goal you will never fully achieve. I really think "turned" is going to be easier and more successful. Also, on this same topic, since the house is brick, I'd consider using siding on the garage. Again, you'll never fully match, so go with a nice coordinated look.

If you separate the garage from the house with a Connector (as discussed above), this decision becomes less important.

In terms of windows - any specific suggestions?

Match them as closely as possible.

monolithic

Yes, the architect's drawing is monolithic, and that's not a positive.

I think anything to shrink the mass of the garage relative to the main house would really be helpful.

Thing is, a 3- car garage with a bedroom above is going to be large, and the house isn't huge. More and more I'm liking the idea of "tucking the garage behind the house" to hide some bulk.

Any architectural suggestions that would prevent it from looking like a straight "A" of white brick if we were to flip the roofline?

Landscaping. Vines growing up the side partnered with interesting trees like birch or dogwood.

I'd try to make the garage come off as more of a dependency as opposed to looking like an extension of the existing house.

Yes! Just what I was thinking, written in words I didn't have in my head.

You won't have a "straight A of brick" cause my assumption is you will need a window there for the floor above the garage. That will really break up the plane.

"She's actually a designer providing drafting services"

That's what I figured. As Eero Saarinen observed "To me the drawn language is a very revealing language: one can see in a few lines whether a person is really an architect."

One of my favorite houses in the neighborhood is a brick cape with an attached garage, originally front loading. Some years ago the garage became part of the house, and a sideload garage with a room above added next to that. So, the final result is similar to your plan. It looks like it has alwasy been that way. The garage roof is turned, so that there isn’t a vast plane (or plain, for that matter!) of asphalt shingle, and the gable faces front.

Essential is that the scale of the new matches that of the old, and windows match. And I think they must have reused some brick, or just did an outstanding job of sourcing closely-matching brick, which can’t have been easy because it’s so old.

The master bath should be where the closet is and the closet should be where the master bath is. A closet doesn't need to be on an outside corner.

Also the mudroom coming into the middle of the living room will make furniture placement almost impossible.

Have you considered finding a real architect and working with him/her? If you can't find one locally architectrunnerguy works remotely and does excellent work.

Thoughts on the updated design? Once I return to my laptop this evening I’ll respond to specific questions and comments above - I am blown away by how helpful everyone has been and appreciate everyone’s honest feedback!

One issue with putting the garage tucked behind the house is that the grade of the yard drops off (it’s on a walk-out basement), making the idea of a connector more difficult. That plus the septic lines (and therefore tank) would have to be moved. The tank would have to be replaced because as of now, it’s grandfathered in to old code. I will bring the connector idea up to the contractor just in case I’m missing something in terms of the feasibility.

Updated drawing below:

That's what I figured. As Eero Saarinen observed "To me the drawn language is a very revealing language: one can see in a few lines whether a person is really an architect."

I believe you. I'm a language /writing teacher, and I can tell a great deal about a person based upon his or her writing style -- and when people post under multiple screen names, I pick up on it quickly.
The master bath should be where the closet is and the closet should be where the master bath is. A closet doesn't need to be on an outside corner.

I agree, but I feel sure that the original goal was to place the bathrooms back-to-back.

Thoughts on the updated design?

I don't like the roof line on the left. Too much going on /doesn't match the simple, classic style of the house.

I don't want to discount the services you've received thus far and are paying for from your drafter. This person has obviously helped you organize your thoughts, wants, and needs, zero in on space programming, brought up some conflicts and hard points, and given you some "sketches."

However, there are some things during a design process and construction documents production that is beyond most drafters' purview:

- There are a lot of notations about whether a wall is load bearing or if a beam is needed. You are disadvantaged in laying out spaces if you do not understand the structure. For instance, a 20' long beam to open up the Living Room, especially if there are ducts in the ceiling, will be very large and possibly hang down more than you expect or require some post/footing work in the basement. Same in the Master, whether there could be a beam splitting your forehead when laying in the bed. The Garage is lacking posts to support a roof structure that is open for a bonus room. There are a lot of things that will be a surprise to you once a contractor actually builds it.

- Space planning others mentioned about entering the Living Room from the Mudroom, where your Master bed is positioned relative to the door, why you can't capture the tub space and use a Powder Room instead, or the ensuite layout.

- Specific details like the notations shown about demo, which a contractor can take advantage of with cost overruns. How the existing brick just disappears where the addition is. The whole chimney situation. Where the actual septic line, leach field, and backup leach field is. Backfilling in the garage because of the grade dropoff.

These are a few things upon many observed from just the drawings presented, without even getting into aesthetics. For many people, just "good enuff" is fine for them, even when paying a fortune for a huge addition and living through that long process of building it. Afterwards, for many of those same people, regret is palpable, where you see many threads about fixing work that was done for others (or themselves) that was once considered "good enuff." On the other hand, others desire a project to try and live up to the potential for which that project deserves. You seem to be the latter.

If you still want some 3-Ds, I listed a possible contact in your other thread. That Houzz member even commented on one of your older threads.

"one can see in a few lines whether a person is really an architect"

One tweak to that edict, not only can you tell whether one is an architect, but amongst architects, you can tell what kind of architect they may be.

"I can tell a great deal about a person based upon his or her writing style"

Ruh roh, I better work on my grammar and topic sentences!

Has construction started?

@Mark Bischak, Architect

I agree with ARG, I was just trying to figure out a way to say it nicely.

The layout of the spaces seems convoluted and inefficient. Certain existing factors may contribute to the reasoning for the design the way it is, or the designer needs to expose their talents more (see ARG's comment, "Is this person really an architect? . . . . Check with your state license board.).

I don't disagree, this definitely is not the layout I would have built from scratch. However, 7 acres where we live was an amazing blessing to come by so we are trying to make this home work for our large family with the renovations and additions.

Construction has not started. We are in the planning stage.

@bpath

"In the master bath, i expect the toilet is currently next to the shower, where the linen is planned. Keep the toilet there. Run the sinks across the back wall. The shower and toilet should still have room to be in their own room.

In the laundry room, swap the machines woth the sink. You want counterspace to one side od the sink, and a window over a sink is much easier to open and to clean than a window over a washer."

The toilet is currently next to the shower, with no water closet. A water closet is on my husband's very short list of must haves (next to my very long list) so I'd like to oblige him and give him that wish. We were given a design option of putting the water closet where the current tub is (see photos below) and sinks across the back wall. The problem with that is that they were close together and I really want separate counterspace from my husband. The L shape seemed to be the best option for that. However we are open to other options.

Currently what is becoming the office / guest room is the master closet. There is a tiny master bathroom. With the redesign we took space from the master bedroom to make a larger bathroom and new closet. We are wanting to leave the shower where it is.

We did consider borrowing space from the hall bathroom (which admittedly is a little bizarre that it's a full bath). However, after considering several design options it did not appear that we gained enough extra sq footage to be worth removing that current tub (cast iron).

I'm open to all recommendations if anyone sees an alternative design that will 1) provide a water closet, 2) separate sinks on separate walls

Current tiny master bathroom bathroom (view from doorway toward shower, which is where new shower will go)

View from current shower

@G W I haven't been able to come up with a design that keeps a water closet with separate sinks. Open to all suggestions!

@3onthetree

- There are a lot of notations about whether a wall is load bearing or if a beam is needed. You are disadvantaged in laying out spaces if you do not understand the structure. For instance, a 20' long beam to open up the Living Room, especially if there are ducts in the ceiling, will be very large and possibly hang down more than you expect or require some post/footing work in the basement. Same in the Master, whether there could be a beam splitting your forehead when laying in the bed. The Garage is lacking posts to support a roof structure that is open for a bonus room. There are a lot of things that will be a surprise to you once a contractor actually builds it.

I appreciate your feedback. Our contractor was there with the designer as everything was discussed, so a lot of things have been considered although I am of course worried about the unknowns. As far as the length of the beam, the exact length is up in the air (to be decided after they open up the walls and I decide how open I really do want it, also to be decided after a structural engineer gets involved and gives us details on the size, etc.) The contractor doesn't think it will be an issue. I do not like random posts in the middle of rooms, that's one of my absolute "do not wants" so we would shorten the length of the beam by not making the opening as wide if necessary (closing off the kitchen or dining or both a little more, even a few feet each way could make a big difference in beam length).

As far as the master bedroom, the room in it's current state is absolutely insanely large and there is no beam or structural posts. They've looked at where the load bearing walls are and see no issue (of course to be verified by a structural engineer) but basically walls are going up not down in that space, with the exception of the bathroom.

Regarding the garage - I'll bring that concern up to our contractor regarding the posts. That has not been discussed and that's a great point.

- Space planning others mentioned about entering the Living Room from the Mudroom, where your Master bed is positioned relative to the door, why you can't capture the tub space and use a Powder Room instead, or the ensuite layout.

Admittedly the layout of this house is not what I would build from scratch, but the land is magical and so really want to make this house amazing for our family. In my opinion it's more difficult to renovate and retrofit than build from scratch.

As far as entering the living room from the mudroom, because of the height of the back of the house (it's on a walkout basement) I see really no other option. I did not want to enter the kitchen from the mudroom or laundry room because I didn't want to walk around the kitchen table carrying grocery bags each day. I'm open to any option you see regarding how to better design it though, if you have any specific ideas!

Above I included some photos of the current master bathroom and a description of what we are doing in there (switching the current master closet to the office / guest bedroom, building a closet & expanding master bathroom on that back wall. Unsure how we could otherwise position the master bed while still preserving these additions and changes? I was worried about it being centered on the windows (don't love it) but don't know what else to do.

We have considered capturing the tub space from the hall bathroom and using it for the master bathroom. But we couldn't figure out how those extra 5' really made a design difference. If you have ideas I would love to hear them. I don't love the tub space in the hall - however if we get rid of it we need to add a tub to the master (because we need at least 1 tub in the house)

- Specific details like the notations shown about demo, which a contractor can take advantage of with cost overruns. How the existing brick just disappears where the addition is. The whole chimney situation. Where the actual septic line, leach field, and backup leach field is. Backfilling in the garage because of the grade dropoff.

We were asked if we wanted to keep the existing brick or remove, and we opted to remove. I didn't ask questions about how this would be done but neither the designer nor the contractor seemed to think it would be an issue.

We have had the septic tank, pump line and leach fields marked.

Backfilling garage is currently being investigated by the contractor but won't be a problem (we are doing grading work around the whole front and side of the property to improve drainage - property was previously really neglected and needs work in this area). Current underground propane tank is being removed so there will be lots of fill-in for the 1000 gallon tank (currently located where garage will go)

Chimney situation...we are planning on switching it from wood burning to gas logs. We had a gas person come out to make sure this could be done and they said no problem (house is being converted from propane to natural gas anyway). I'm not opposed to removing the entire thing but don't know if that's even an option. Could you elaborate on your concerns with keeping the fireplace?

These are a few things upon many observed from just the drawings presented, without even getting into aesthetics. For many people, just "good enuff" is fine for them, even when paying a fortune for a huge addition and living through that long process of building it. Afterwards, for many of those same people, regret is palpable, where you see many threads about fixing work that was done for others (or themselves) that was once considered "good enuff." On the other hand, others desire a project to try and live up to the potential for which that project deserves. You seem to be the latter.

I'm not a good enuffer. I'm super, super picky and really want all worst-case scenarios covered before we break ground or start on anything. So any guidance is appreciated. I do know that the design won't ever be perfect because we are retro-fitting a bizarre 1970's home. But I want every dollar to count and I definitely don't want any major structural issues down the road.

@Mrs Pete

I like the floor plan the architect drew for you, but I do not like the image of what the exterior will look like. It's too bulky, and (unless the previous owner was kind enough to leave you a load of bricks out back) additions never "quite match" the original ... it's better to have your garage "set back" instead of trying to make it look like it was part of the original building.

I agree with the bulky-ness and I am glad I asked to make sure it wasn't just me. I don't blame her one bit because she drew what I asked.

As far as setting the garage back more, the septic issue (really really don't want to mess with it if we don't have to because the current system is grandfathered in) is really the main problem. As well as the grade of the yard (the home is on a walkout basement so there is a drop) which would make any type of connector off the back difficult (or at least in my mind it would be...open to specific ideas on how to do this).

Too bad the septic tank is where it is. How far could you set it back? Just where is the septic tank. What I'm thinking:

- Even if you could do just a 10' or so setback, it would be enough to make the garage look like a secondary structure /not the equal of the house.

I'm not opposed to setting it back - would need to talk to the septic company again but maybe we could just run a new pump line. However the mudroom addition is very important to me (lots of kids with lots of bags and I like organization). and I don't think we can easily do it off the back due to the grade of the yard. Unfortunately 90% of the property is flat and when they built the original home they tucked it in the corner where things drop off. Probably because they wanted the livestock and farmable land to be flat, but just my guess.

- Alternately, you could put the laundry /mudroom to the left, as the architect has drawn, but also have a Connector (enclosed or just a covered walkway) to connect to the garage.

I'm unsure how to incorporate the mudroom as I think just having it off the left of the house with the garage off the back of that will make the house look asymmetrical? However I do like this idea just can't envision what it would look like with the breezeway. Any sample photos I could see?

Will the above-garage bedroom have its own entrance /be a separate space? The house in which I grew up (where my brother still lives) has a one-bedroom apartment connected by a breezeway, and it has been SO USEFUL to my family in so many ways over the years. I think you'd be very happy if you set it up so it can be treated as a separate living space with a separate entrance and separate utilities.

Love this idea, because I can imagine a scenario where we use this space as an in-law suite in the future. However I dont' want to let go of the mudroom and can't see how to attach the mudroom to the house without it looking random when the garage is detached. And would have to have interior walkway of some type to the garage.

Agree with all, weird layout ... but if you incorporate the two back-to-back bathroom spaces, you have a world of options.

In a response to another post above, I added some photos of the current bathroom and additional context to the remodeling design. One of the first things we considered was absorbing the tub space from the hall bathroom into the master bath. However it did not seem to impact the design significantly - because it still is an awkward shape. If you have any ideas on how using that space would help the master bath I'd love to hear them. If we lose that tub from the hall bath, we would need to add one to the master bathroom (we need 1 tub in the house for our kids).

The master bath should be where the closet is and the closet should be where the master bath is. A closet doesn't need to be on an outside corner.

I agree, but I feel sure that the original goal was to place the bathrooms back-to-back.

So the back to back bathrooms is how the house is currently designed - and we are trying to keep the master shower in the same spot to avoid moving the plumbing. However open to all options.

Thoughts on the updated design?

I don't like the roof line on the left. Too much going on /doesn't match the simple, classic style of the house.

How would you fix it if we cannot detach the garage? Or how can we detach the garage without the mudroom looking like a just stuck on random addition?

Thanks!

@G W I haven't been able to come up with a design that keeps a water closet with separate sinks. Open to all suggestions!

Switch the bathroom with the master closet.

@cpartist We are trying to keep the plumbing from the master shower (not move it). If moving it will significantly give us a better design I'm open to it. Unsure of how the switch would change anything - is it because then it doesn't have to be an "L" shape?

Ok, I generally don't like fixing an unimaginitive "designers" solution but I feel for the owner. Try taking a look at reducing the visual mass of the garage by breaking it up a little. And bring down the front eave line of the garage. The rear wall of the garage is slid back about 3' so I hope that's ok but 12-18" would do most of what I'm trying to accomplish if space is tight.

And I'd pay particular attention to and reread 3onthetree's post upthread. I suspect that that removed wall between the LR and K is bearing as it runs right down the center of the house. You might be unpleasantly surprised to find a rather larger beam there.

@cpartist mentioned my name but I don't do remote additions as there's too many existing conditions I have to see in person (like that removed wall mentioned above) so the above is not a hype for work. I'm busy enough now anyway.

And I had to smile while doing the drawing given Mr. Saarinen's observation I cited above concerning drawings by architects. Sloppy I know but quick as I'm only had a few minutes waiting for the Sun to come up to go out for a dawn run.

In the master bath, why can’t the vanities go where the tub currently is, perhaps even longer? You can divide them with a pony wall, or a pony wall with a wall to the ceiling that doesn’t go quite all the way to the edge of the countertop, and it can have a recessed medicine cabinet on one side. The tub and toilet can be in their little closet.

I don't know how helpful this will be for OP since it's just my experience, but I smiled when she guessed that the house was placed to maximize pasture/cropland. That's what we did when we built and when we wanted to add on a garage several years later - oops! there was the sceptic field. We didn't add the garage because our architect wasn't a magician and one of us is retired and the other doesn't have a daily commute. Still, an attached garage would have been nice.

I know you don't want to move/add a new septic system, but I truly think you should investigate that option. First, the systems are vastly improved and a new system might be a boon to a busy household and second, I can promise you that the pain of that expense will not be as awful as the pain of looking at a lumpy house squished lumpily onto magical land.

Lastly, we did change a storage room into a working mudroom. There's only DH and me, so it stays fairly tidy, but I still would not want a space which is meant to and does accomodate dirt and ruckus to open into my living area.

Do not curse your "amazing blessing" with bad architecture*, it is poor stewardship. With major remodeling to an existing structure there are a myriad of factors that effect the design. One of the many questions I have is how the 20 foot long beam gets supported above the existing fireplace opening?

*Architecture defined as a structure that fits the occupants needs and the site features, in an aesthetically pleasing way.

@barncatz

Thank you for your feedback. If I could come up with a design that really solved all of the problems and the only issue was septic, I would consider it.

Is the ideal setup to have a mudroom opening to a kitchen? I am curious about that. We could switch the mudroom and laundry location on the current plan, however I did not want to be dragging groceries around a kitchen table and felt like it was more of a "straight shot" from the front of the house through the family room.

I've attached a few photos of the back elevation (the deck is coming off of the kitchen - our plans are to brick up the current door and add french doors in the dining room opening up onto the deck. I actually don't care about the deck at all and I'm happy to lose it completely for an addition if that would be helpful.

Deck is above walkout basement

Walkout basement entrance (under kitchen / dining room)

Looking down from the deck onto the back yard. Back corner of garage addition (as it's currently planned) would be almost where the dog house is)

Looking straight back from top of deck. Property extends WAY beyond the back fenceline, but the property drops off there.

Left side of the house where current plans for addition / garage will go

Septic tank is at the base of the arrow (this is the back deck), pump line runs under the deck out into the pasture, the field is out of the way and isn't of concern for the addition

@Mark Bischak, Architect

Do not curse your "amazing blessing" with bad architecture*, it is poor stewardship. With major remodeling to an existing structure there are a myriad of factors that effect the design. One of the many questions I have is how the 20 foot long beam gets supported above the existing fireplace opening?

*Architecture defined as a structure that fits the occupants needs and the site features, in an aesthetically pleasing way.

I definitely don't want to have a bad architectural design. There is no fireplace on the main floor; it is in the basement. Our contractor didn't think there was any issue adding the beam. We did agree we would wait until we opened up walls to make sure I really want it all the way open, and of course getting the input of a structural engineer, but as far as the fireplace there was no issue mentioned. Here is a shot of the current family room / living room set up since I'm probably explaining it poorly.

Entry looking across family room (dining room is the opening on the right).

Pink box is exterior chimney, connecting to the fireplace below in the basement

Entry looking toward kitchen:

I do like the idea of a visual separation (overhead beam) separating the family room and kitchen when the space is opened up. Now how far that has to drop down we were told we would have to hear from structural engineer.

I'm very thankful for all of this feedback and I'm worried about if we are heading in the wrong direction. But I don't know what the solution is.

Another thing that can't be commented on is the 2nd floor. I assume the area over the Mudroom will be designated for the Bedroom's bath and closet, which neither will have windows. The slope of the roof will reduce the available floor area of both the bedroom and bonus room. And I think you are saying even after adding the upstairs bedroom you will still have the same 4 bedrooms when you are done (by eliminating the basement bedroom?), and know that the septic is sized for #bedrooms and will remain adequate?

It appears you are extending the basement with the addition, so you also will address HVAC probably with a 2nd unit in this area?

Speaking of HVAC, you have the propane tank and septic existing off of this corner. So where is the electrical feed and panel, here too? Where is the current garage, if any?

In response to your response to me (note most all contributors read all the comments, so you don't have to repeat points to each person):

- I still don't understand the FP. Does it only serve the 1st floor, and as it sits now you will keep it for use and it will now be located in the deadman's space between the Dining and Living?

- The amount of fill approaching 4' deep under a garage slab is concerning (and expensive) if it is not done correctly, and usually it isn't by residential contractors. Having a deeper hole from the propane tank to fill even adds to the potential failure of your slab.

- Things like removing brick, matching brick, installing beams, fill compaction, etc that the contractor has said "not a problem," well, he/she's sorta correct as anything can be done depending on how much money you throw at it. However, the contractor is not so concerned with your cost and how those things affect the layout at this stage, if ever.

*** writing my comment as you were adding pics above

Don't you want to come in and drop some of your bags on the kitchen table anyway? That seems more efficient to me. Especially the bags with pantry items? (And won't you be dodging furniture in the living room anyway with the current entry?)

@3onthetree

I'll attach the 2nd story plan below.

Another thing that can't be commented on is the 2nd floor. I assume the area over the Mudroom will be designated for the Bedroom's bath and closet, which neither will have windows. The slope of the roof will reduce the available floor area of both the bedroom and bonus room. And I think you are saying even after adding the upstairs bedroom you will still have the same 4 bedrooms when you are done (by eliminating the basement bedroom?), and know that the septic is sized for #bedrooms and will remain adequate? Speaking of HVAC, you have the propane tank and septic existing off of this corner. So where is the electrical feed and panel, here too? Where is the current garage, if any?

Actually the space above the mudroom / laundry is not being used as livable space. The bedroom / bonus addition are over the garage. The basement is not being extended; there will be a walk-in crawl space below the mud/laundry addition. The propane tank is being excavated and removed & converted to natural gas. Septic tank is off the back corner of the deck, with pump line running straight out to the field (see photos above). There is no current garage - original photo is the entirety of the house. Electrical panel is off walkout basement (near bedroom in basement). We will have an extra bedroom (master on main, 2 original bedrooms on 2nd floor, bedroom in basement, plus new bedroom above garage). The septic perks for 5 bedrooms and is therefore adequate (confirmed by septic company)

- I still don't understand the FP. Does it only serve the 1st floor, and as it sits now you will keep it for use and it will now be located in the deadman's space between the Dining and Living?

The original fireplace is super bizarre to me in that it's a woodburning fireplace that only serves the basement. Our plan is to convert it to gas logs (when they switch from propane to natural gas). This has been verified that it's no problem by 2 separate companies that service gas. We are switching from propane to natural gas because 1) we have to relocate the propane tank anyway in order to put the addition on...the tank is right where the addition is going, 2) if we have to relocate it, might as well just switch, 3) originally natural gas was not available in our area (when the house was built in the 1970s) but is now available so it makes sense to make the switch. It's an expensive proposition due to the fact the house sets back several acres from the main road, but I think it's worth it in the long run.

- The amount of fill approaching 4' deep under a garage slab is concerning (and expensive) if it is not done correctly, and usually it isn't by residential contractors. Having a deeper hole from the propane tank to fill even adds to the potential failure of your slab.

I am really worried about this as well. The contractor is currently reaching out to companies that specialize in this. But I'm open to other design ideas that would prevent this from being necessary. I am genuinly not at all attached to the floor plan as drawn but haven't been able to come up with a viable solution. I am willing to move septic IF the design is something I'm in love with.

- Things like removing brick, matching brick, installing beams, fill compaction, etc that the contractor has said "not a problem," well, he/she's sorta correct as anything can be done depending on how much money you throw at it. However, the contractor is not so concerned with your cost and how those things affect the layout at this stage, if ever.

All brick is being painted white to 1) prevent need to match closely and 2) because I don't like red brick (just personal preference), 3) trying to modernize the house a tad bit. We've given them our all-in budget and they said it's no problem but I won't lie I'm nervous.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for your help!!! This is the biggest investment of our lives and I don't want to mess it up.

Edit: floor plan didn't attach, edited to add it

2nd Floor:

Basement:

@barncatz Good points. I had been thinking I wanted to keep that back wall of the dining room solid without a door so that I could put a bench seat for the kids if we wanted to down the line. But maybe should reconsider. Or just redesign :-(

@3onthetree I added the photos above, sorry they got left off originally