Alcove between kitchen/mudroom and garage - layout advice needed

4704in2015

9 years ago

Hi everyone. We are renovating an old house, and there is a funky layout piece I need help with. There is a small alcove about 5' x 5' that links the kitchen/mudroom entrance to the garage. The alcove also opens out to a path that leads from the driveway to the back door (so you can reach the back door without going through the garage). A picture is attached.

Right now, there is no door at all leading from the alcove up a few steps into the garage - completely open. There is an old door frame, but the door is long gone. See left side of the picture. That means the garage cannot be closed off. Our contractor strongly suggests we should install some sort of door to keep people out of the garage, and also to prevent wildlife from the nearby wilderness, from setting up a den in the garage during the winter.

Here are options we are considering, and a pro/con list for each.

1. Simple door. Just add a simple door where the original frame was. This is least expensive and easiest. Would protect the garage without losing garage space. Drawbacks are that the door will swing into the small alcove and make it slightly complicated to access the back door of the house, although we have measured and they won't hit one another. Alcove itself remains exposed to the elements.

2. Build a new alcove space at the top of the steps, in the garage, and put the door into the garage up there. That way, the alcove space becomes bigger and the doors are in two separate spots. But the newly framed alcove risks feeling dark and tunnel-like. It also means losing a fair amount of usable space from the garage. Alcove itself remains exposed to the elements.

3. Put a gate on the exterior opening of the alcove. Nice for security, because it means potential intruder could not sit in the alcove and break into the back door. But would we really lock it on a regular basis? I doubt it. Also, a gate wouldn't keep out the wildlife, so it probably would need to be in addition to a door closing off the garage, and not as a replacement. (Maybe a gate with small openings between bars might keep out large wildlife, and we'll just live the with inevitable mice, since they are probably small enough to find some other route into the garage anyway?)

4. Put an exterior door on the arched part of the alcove. This would block off both wildlife and potential intruders. But it would require a custom-made door to fit the irregular arch of the alcove. Also, a solid door would make the alcove dark and prevent light from getting into the main house through the glass window of the back door.

5. Wall up the arched alcove opening, perhaps leaving a window for light. This would block off wildlife and intruders, but it would mean we have to open the garage door to reach the back door.

Anyone with other clever ideas? Any help appreciated!

Featured Answer

Bridget

8 years ago

I would put a regular entry door in the archway, and in the space between the top of the door and the arch I would put a half-moon shaped window. This would 1. keep the area secure; and 2. still allow light into the alcove and the kitchen.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (20)

AnnKH
9 years ago
Could you put a door into the garage that opens in instead of out? It would need to be modified, and wouldn't keep out little critters (but as you said, they find their way in no matter what we do), but it would keep out anything bigger than a squirrel.
0
bpath
9 years ago
Oh, the garage door can't open in because there are steps going UP to the garage, just inside that door. Hmm...can you move the steps? Or is that getting too expensive/losing too much space in the garage? As in, when you step out of the car you fall into a trench? How may steps are there? Can you rotate them so that instead of going straight up from the doorway, there is small square just inside I the door and the steps go up to the right?
0
Related Discussions
Layout advice needed - Move the kitchen?
Q
Comments (63)
Okay, this is my last idea to get you a big kitchen with good light. I altered the staircase, added a window, changed the back door to a window, and put a new door in from the garage (where you don't have to walk outside to get inside or take two 90 degree turns while carrying groceries -- it's now a straight shot into the kitchen). Your dining room, living room, and multipurpose room are unaltered except for doorways added in various places. The kitchen is now enormous and has light coming in on two sides. You have a mud room that also has a window, and you have an enormous pantry. I didn't spend a ton of time on the mudroom or kitchen layout, but you can see what is possible with this kind of space. Sky's the limit, really. The difficult part is obviously reconfiguring the stairs. I am not an expert on stairs, but estimating your ceiling height to be 8' - 9', I think where I put the new stairs will fit a straight staircase that turns at the bottom with winder steps (so the bottom steps don't protrude from the overall stairs footprint and get in the way of the front door). Like these: The door to the basement stairs would be underneath those stairs, like this: The basement stairs would have to be shaped differently from the main floor stairs, and I don't know the basement layout anyway, so I haven't taken a guess at that. (This stair stuff is DEFINITELY something you should consult a professional about -- what would fit, code, shapes, options. I know so little -- I only learned today that winder steps exist.) A variation of this idea would be to not have the basement stairs under the foyer stairs at all. You could move the basement stairs somewhere underneath the mudroom/pantry area and have the entrance to it somewhere in the mudroom/pantry (maybe having the basement stairs over there does nice things for the basement layout?). And then instead of having the basement stairs access under the foyer staircase, you could either have a front hall closet or a doorway to the kitchen. And totally separate from any of this, you could put a skylight above the staircase. Perhaps that would bring enough light to the foyer that you could keep the original door and not bother getting one with glass in it. This post was edited by Jillius on Wed, Nov 19, 14 at 18:28
...See More
Layout Advice Welcomed -- Kitchen/Mudroom Expansion
Q
Comments (9)
The island will not seat 4 as currently shown. An island can never seat two people at a corner. All them legs from island, stools and people on two side can't fit under the counter. You can start to see it in the drawing with the stools actually overlapping the island legs and it gets worse with people - legs and knees for the two around-the-corner diners can't overlap under the counter. The corner of the table, the desk and the island is pretty tight. The small ?shelves? look less than two feet away from the corner of the table. I'm not sure anyone will be able to get through when the table is actually occupied. The desk will need a chair and I wonder if it will cause a big snafu with the table chairs and the island stools. I believe some of the assumed sizes of appliances may be off in the drawing. The sink looks like a 24", the ovens look like 27", the range and ref look like about 30". It's always hard to tell but that's what they look like using one of the marked 36" cabinets as a ruler. The one foot deep cabinets will make seating on the far side of the island an issue. Roughly, seating with a walkway takes a minimum of 44" from the counter edge to a BLANK WALL. It looks like you may not quite have that much to the cabinets - a lot of the time, a cabinet plan actually shows the size of cabinets without the doors on and certainly without handles. When you have cabinets behind stools, it's nice to be able to use them. Generally you need to leave at least 54" but with a pair of 18" doors to open, I'd consider leaving 60" because its a main walkway to the outside and will be in the route to the drinks. Combining a pantry and laundry might not be a great idea. The requirements for the two tasks are different. Pantries should be dark, laundry needs a lotta light. Laundries tend to be overheated, and overly humid. Pantries like cool and dry. Add in that laundries produce a fair amount of dust and possibly perfumes - cheerios that smell like Tide? The spacing issues and circulation need some thought. People will want to use that corner between the living room, table and desk for circulation go to/from the kitchen. People will use the walkway from the front door to the back door -or- around the top or bottom of the island if you don't have any other way to reach the back deck. Maybe think of changing the use of the spaces? Living becomes dining, family becomes kitchen, kitchen becomes family. I would tell them to go fish and try again. just bad wit If the kitchen is the heart of the home, that island is a clogged artery.
...See More
Critique my garage entry/mudroom/bath layout
Q
Comments (23)
Yes that's what I mean. It's exasperating! They waltz right past the bathroom and wash their grubby hands and then flick the water all over. Gah. I have been working on that issue for years and they aren't clueing in. Yesterday dh backed me up when again there they were at the sink and I said THAT MEANS YOU TOO. His jaw dropped, lol. My sink, MY SINK for food prep people. Get outta my space with those dirty hands! I think your long counter is in a perfect spot. It's close enough to be useful but it's not IN the kitchen per se. Thumbs up to that! Mine is more in the back entry and it's not as convenient. You certainly can put a utility sink in the garage - but I don't know about winter time if there would be a span of weather that you couldn't use it - here that would be the case unless there is a way to insulate it. Definitely would want it on an inside wall at the least. I think you need to evaluate what exactly you plan to use that W/D for and if you will be doing a lot of soaking or if that stuff would go upstairs to the other W/D and how frequently you'll be using this one. I have a utility sink by my W/D - had to fight for it as our bath is near and hubby thought it wasteful but when you have someone sick in the night or stains that need extra soaking it's 100% worth it to me. That is my humble opinion. That one time one of them had the flu in my mind made it worth the extra cost. I don't want that soaking in my sink - and they aren't deep enough anyway.
...See More
New build kitchen layout advice needed
Q
Comments (16)
Here's an idea: The counters and cabinets along the perimeter are all 3" deeper than standard: 28.5" deep counters 27" deep base cabinets 15" deep upper cabinets The deeper cabinets provide a lot more storage and the deeper counters provide more workspace. If your cabinetmaker does not offer 27" deep base cabinets, then simply pull standard depth base cabinets out 3" from the wall. Most, if not all, cabinetmakers offer 15" deep uppers. The Cleanup Zone and Dish Storage are near the Dining Room for ease of setting the table and cleaning off the table. They're also a direct shot from the Living Room. Dish Storage is in a 30" wide dish hutch. The upper cabinet goes from the counter up to the ceiling (or however high your uppers go). This gives you a lot of storage space for dishes, glasses, etc. With the deeper counters, the upper cabinet of the hutch is 15" deep so you can fit all your plates and platters. The two Prep Zones are separated from the Cleanup Zone, which allows you to have someone cleaning up while others are prepping/cooking. With two "primary" Prep Zones, you can have two people doing major prep work at the same time. It also provides you with a choice of where to prep - on the island or b/w the range and cleanup sink. As your toddler grows up, s/he will be helping in the Kitchen, so you will each have your own space! It also allows guests, etc., to help out during get togethers. With the prep sink offset, you have a wonderful expanse of workspace for large projects such as baking, cookie decorating, crafts, school/science projects, wrapping gifts, staging food during parties, etc. Both the MW drawer & wine cooler are on the sides of the island to keep people out of the main work zones. It really doesn't matter which side of the island they're on - you can switch them. I can argue for/against both arrangements. The refrigerator & freezer are on the periphery of the Kitchen for the same reason. The trash pullout is located so it's easily accessible from both Prep Zones, the Cooking Zone, and the Cleanup Zone as well as on the periphery. Small Appliances...There's a mixer lift for your stand mixer and the other small appliances can be stored in the 27" wide drawer bank across from the mixer lift. No appliance garage, but in all honesty, most people end up taking them out when they remodel b/c they take up too much counterspace and the what counterspace there is in front of the garage is useless b/c you don't want to block access. Better to store them where they can be easily accessed without having to move things around or even to shuffle appliances around in a smaller space inside a garage. With the drawers, they're all accessible without shuffling or taking up valuable counterspace. If there's room, you could also store them in the Pantry - 12" deep shelves hold the vast majority of standard small appliances. Cookbooks could be stored in the shelves of the 24" upper cabinet, if you'd like. I ended up storing mine in an upper cabinet next to my hood b/c I forgot to plan for them and that location is actually working out quite well! They're right were I need them! If you have dozens of cookbooks, they probably won't all fit, but you could at least store your most used cookbooks there on 1 or 2 shelves. I put in the Savigny range. It's still quite large, but at least you gained a few inches of workspace! The pantry is a reach-in, possibly step-in pantry with only 12" deep shelves. Built-in pantries are much more efficient and flexible storage if their shelves are not too deep - and they're less expensive! They provide a full view of what you have so there's no opening/closing drawers or roll out tray shelves looking for something Shelves can be adjustable for not only flexible storage initially, but if your needs change later, you can re-adjust them. If needed, you can store larger items on the floor. You have access to the entire space for storage - floor to ceiling. You can even use the side walls to hang a broom or mop. The "sweet spot" for pantry shelf depth is 12". Just about everything will fit on 12" deep shelves - cereal boxes, rolls of paper towels, cans, boxes, small appliances (food processors, mixers, blenders, breadmakers, standard size toaster ovens, toasters, waffle irons, etc.). The shallow depth doesn't allow you to store things too deep so things do not get lost. If you're concerned about organization, get bins or similar to organize smaller items on the shelves. The problem with 24" deep pantry cabinets is that they are not particularly flexible, things get lost in the back and in the "middle" of the roll out tray shelves (especially those above your chest), and if you're not quite sure where something is, you have to open/close multiple drawers/roll out tray shelves looking for the item. In addition, you only have "access" to the internal height of the pantry cabinet - usually quite a bit less than floor-to-ceiling b/c of toekick and limited cabinet heights available, Oh, and they're expensive. . Layout #1: . Layout #1 Zone Map: .
...See More
Related Professionals
Gainesville Kitchen & Bathroom Designers · San Jose Kitchen & Bathroom Designers · Town 'n' Country Kitchen & Bathroom Designers · Bensenville Kitchen & Bathroom Designers · Auburn Kitchen & Bathroom Remodelers · Dearborn Kitchen & Bathroom Remodelers · Glen Allen Kitchen & Bathroom Remodelers · Omaha Kitchen & Bathroom Remodelers · Spokane Kitchen & Bathroom Remodelers · Sun Valley Kitchen & Bathroom Remodelers · Turlock Kitchen & Bathroom Remodelers · Effingham Cabinets & Cabinetry · Murray Cabinets & Cabinetry · Spring Valley Cabinets & Cabinetry · Brentwood Tile and Stone Contractors
4704in2015
Original Author
9 years ago
There are 4 steps leading up into the garage. I don't see moving them as a good option though, because they'd have to be moved quite a bit to allow the door to open into the garage. You'd need roughly 44" for the steps themselves, plus at least 36-40" for the landing, so you could open the door without backing into the steps. Then you'd need a railing along the side of the trench.
0
funkycamper
9 years ago
If you do the gate, I'd get a lock with a pass code so you can lock it easily, get in and out without having to remember a key. But, really, I think your need for this depends on your neighborhood and how likely a break-in would be. Do your neighbors have visual sight to that door? If so, extra security may not really be needed.

I don't understand why such a big landing is needed. We have a door at the top of our stairs from basement to main house. The landing is only about 15" wide. We just turn the doorknob when we're on one of the upper steps. Unless I'm seriously missing something, I don't see why a landing is needed at all. I would seriously want a door into the garage so I would make that work. Maybe an automatic opening door with the opener on the first step going up so, if you're packing groceries, you don't need an extra hand to open the door?
0
amg765
9 years ago
All kinds of critters get in my garage if the side door is left open, even in an urban area, so I would suggest a solid door.

I think as long as the door has the hinges on the left it won't get in the way too much. You might be able to extend the jams and hang the door on the next step up if head clearance isn't an issue.

Also, I have no idea whether exterior bifold doors are even a thing but if they do exist this would be a perfect place for one.
0
bpath
9 years ago
Funky, it's the landing at the BOTTOM of the steps, it has to be big enough for the door to swing into. The steps to up into the garage from the door.
0
bpath
9 years ago
Would you ever use that door to carry stuff from the garage to the yard? If you can use the overhead door for that, then hinging the door on the left side (nearer the arch) and swinging the door out might be your best bet. You probably more often carry things between house and garage? But if you think you would carry stuff from garage to yard throught that door, well, hinging on the left would make it impossible.
0
funkycamper
9 years ago
OK, bpathome. I really need simple 2D drawings or I get super-discombobulated.
0
funkycamper
9 years ago
How about one of these and don't laugh. We have a small commercial building and one of these is in the alcove just outside the back door. It's somewhere around 36-42" wide, don't recall exactly. Custom sized and fairly inexpensive. It rolls up and down super easy. It coils into a roller at the top. Very lightweight but very secure.

Rolling Steel Doors by Overhead Door · More Info
0
bpath
9 years ago
I was wondering if that would work! Can it have a push-button opener like a regular overhead door?
0
funkycamper
9 years ago
I dunno. It's so light, we just bend over, grab the handle and give it a fling and it practically floats up and closes itself anyway.
0
4704in2015
Original Author
9 years ago
Hmmm. Good thoughts all. Many thanks. This is a perfect example of the usefulness of this forum, because even though I thought we'd collected all possible alternatives, you all offered two quick new ones I hadn't considered.

I don't think moving the steps into the garage will work, because of space & cost. The roll-up door seems crazy at first, but I sort of see where you're going, since it would seal off the garage but avoid possible conflict between the swing of the two doors in the alcove.

At this point, I'm leaning toward just putting a solid door in the same spot it used to be: on the left side of the photo, with a swing into the alcove. That will keep vermin out of the garage. We can live there for a while and see how we use the entrance post-renovation. Since not much else is dependent on this door, we can make adjustments in a year or two when we're more informed.

Thanks everyone!
0
funkycamper
9 years ago
If possible, I always think it's better to live with something for awhile before making changes. A regular door can be purchased very inexpensively so that's a good plan. If you're unsure if you want to stick with this, you might try any salvage stores or Habitat for Humanity Re-Stores in your area and just get any secure door that fits. Once you decide that a regular door works, or doesn't work, then you can spend more on something nicer that suits the space. Best wishes.
0
AnnKH
9 years ago
Funky, the roll-up door is a terrific idea! My son built a shed at our church for his Eagle Scout project, and he put in a roll-up door (6 feet wide, I think). It was so simple to install, and it does go up and down very easily. Ours has a padlock on the outside.

In the OP's case, it would only come down as far as the step, but would still keep out larger unwanted guests.
0
cluelessincolorado
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
How about taking a regular door and splitting it down the middle vertically? Friends have done this in an old house (interior) and it works well.
Historic House · More Info
0
bpath
9 years ago
4704, see if you can find a door similar to the kitchen door, with glass. Or even with just a single row of panes at the top. It might look more cohesive, but also will give some light in the garage, especially with those concrete steps.

I think your alcove is charming! Though the bricks are scary...glad you're renovating them before those two clonk someone's noggin.
0
4704in2015
Original Author
9 years ago
Many thanks. Good idea on getting a garage door with some light. Back door into kitchen has already been replaced with a full-light door. Also, the death-trap bricks have been repaired too. I got nervous anytime anyone walked near those!
0
PRO
Anglophilia
8 years ago
Or glass in the entire archway with very heavy glass that would be very hard to break.
0
cpartist
8 years ago
Why are you bringing up a thread from Sept 2015?
0

Alcove between kitchen/mudroom and garage - layout advice needed

Bridget

Comments (20)

AnnKH

bpath

Related Discussions

Related Professionals

4704in2015
Original Author

funkycamper

amg765

bpath

bpath

funkycamper

funkycamper

bpath

funkycamper

4704in2015
Original Author

funkycamper

AnnKH

cluelessincolorado

bpath

4704in2015
Original Author

Anglophilia

cpartist

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Alcove between kitchen/mudroom and garage - layout advice needed

Comments (20)

Related Discussions

Related Professionals

4704in2015Original Author

4704in2015Original Author

4704in2015Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

4704in2015
Original Author

4704in2015
Original Author

4704in2015
Original Author