I think the Ukrainian air force has been depleted by attacks on its planes and airfields. It may not have the capacity to attack the convoy.  And NATO certainly isn't going to start WWIII by doing so.

This article is just heartbreaking. The kids in a cancer ward are stuck there (all of the roads are covered with mines) and they are running out of food and medications.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/01/cancer-ward-chernihiv-hospital-ukrainian-children-under-siege

I wish I knew some more concrete ways to help. I have contacted my MP and expressed my support for Ukraine, including Canada hosting refugees here quickly. Any other ideas?

I've understood the International Red Cross to be a humanitarian organization that provides food and other services to refugees/victims of conflict or natural disasters. And perhaps one that advocates for humanitarian rights as it sees them. To my knowledge, it has no enforcement or prosecution powers, no mandate or supranational legal standing. Am I misinformed?

You can donate to savethechildren.org, which is a highly reputable organization.

“the U.S. cannot attack Russia because Congress has yet to declare war on the country. And make no mistake, a direct attack on Russian forces by either the U.S. or NATO would be an act of war and dramatically increase the risk of nuclear warfare." act of war

The preceding quote is from a site that describes itself as "a leading libertarian magazine". Nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but it would be useful if people could more clearly indicate the nature of third party information they link or quote.

"To my knowledge, it has no enforcement or prosecution powers, no mandate or supranational legal standing. Am I misinformed?"

Yes. You are misinformed.

The Red Cross was founded in 1863 specifically to deal with the devastation brought on by warfare. It was the Red Cross that instigated the conference that led to the adoption of the first of the Geneva Conventions, the "Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded in Armies in the Field" in 1864. That is the basis on which international humanitarian law has been built. Since then, the ICRC has monitored the application of all the Conventions and has been deeply involved in their modification and expansion.

It is effectively the guardian of international humanitarian law and recognized as such internationally. That role is included in its own statutes and ratified by all the signatory states of the Geneva Convention. Its role in providing humanitarian aid in war zones is also explicitly recognized in all four Conventions and their Protocols.

For example: Art 81 of Protocol 1:

" 1. The Parties to the conflict shall grant to the International Committee of the Red Cross all facilities within their power so as to enable it to carry out the humanitarian functions assigned to it by the Conventions and this Protocol in order to ensure protection and assistance to the victims of conflicts; the International Committee of the Red Cross may also carry out any other humanitarian activities in favour of these victims, subject to the consent of the Parties to the conflict concerned."

Furthermore, Art 5 of the same Protocol specifically authorizes the ICRC to act on behalf of the victims of war when there is no "Protecting Power" to ensure observance of their rights under the Conventions. And there almost never is a "Protecting Power." The ICRC has been doing its best to hold governments to account for violations of International Humanitarian Law for a century and a half.

So yes, indeed the ICRC has a mandate and international standing. And yes, indeed, they are very far from being "amateurs" when it comes to the Geneva Conventions.

Loan Ukraine a C130 gunship and slap on some Ukraine decals and it could easily make a huge dent in that 40 mile convoy. Not one C130 gunship has been shot down since 1991 and since then it's been upgraded with advanced defense systems and a steel at 130 million dollars. So if the world is so concerned give the Ukraine's something that would matter.

At 9pm EST I'll be watching BUY TV and not the state of the union. Chuck Norris is more entertaining and a better salesman throwing out lies to sell a Total gym than Joe's pile of lies selling out America.

I believe the US retains some overriding control over how US materiel is used by foreign military buyers.

Great idea. The Russians will never figure out where a newly repainted US plane came from. Duh.

Elmer - this particular discussion started when you derided an "amateur's analysis and explanation." I pointed out that the ICRC is hardly an amateur when it comes to the Geneva Conventions. It has been involved with their development and application for 150 years. Dealing with the fallout of war is the whole raison d'etre for its very existence. It has produced innumerable expert documents, analyses and reports on every aspect of the Conventions, and is at the core of international humanitarian law. Hardly "amateur." Since you seemed unaware of all of these facts, I elaborated on them.

You stated that "it has no enforcement or prosecution powers, no mandate or supranational legal standing". I pointed out that it does in fact have a mandate, clearly articulated in the Conventions and Protocols, and an international/ supranational legal standing, also explicitly laid out in the same documents. No, it doesn't enforce or prosecute: those are roles defined in the Conventions as clearly belonging to the signatory states (and, failing those states, the ICC).

ICRC ministers to the injured and the captive in just about every conflict, it advocates for them, it reports violations of international humanitarian law. When it identifies a war crime, it reports it to the authorities of that state for their action: that is its mandated duty, just as it is the duty of the states to prosecute. That many choose not to suggests to me that it is they and not the ICRC who are "bystanders" when it comes to international humanitarian law.

Ultimately, the ICRC is a humanitarian organization, not a police force or court. That does not make it a "bystander" any more than the FAO is a bystander because it relies on individual countries to set and enforce regulatory standards which comply with FAO advice. You don't get to decide whether the ICRC has international standing: 196 nations have already agreed that it does.

If it doesn't prosecute or enforce, it's a bystander.

There have been numerous armed conflicts and, in most, war crimes committed by all parties involved in the 70+ years of its existence. Has this agency had any involvement in enforcing the conventions, identifying and bringing to justice rule breakers? If yes, it's been ineffective. If not, it's not in its mandate and its views are hardly relevant. Do keep your internet searches going.

"If it doesn't prosecute or enforce, it's a bystander."

A bystander. Like an EMT dealing with a shooting victim is a bystander?  

I don't know how to make it more clear.  The ICRC is a humanitarian organization. It has an international mandate to help, protect and advocate for victims of warfare.  It is no more a bystander than those EMTs or the ER staff. It is up to its elbows in blood and pain in every conflict.

The Geneva Conventions lay out the Laws of War and make it very clear that enforcement and prosecution lies with the signatory state whose forces have breached those laws.   ICRC is not responsible for enforcing the Laws of War any more than those  medics are responsible for arresting and prosecuting the shooter.  The signatory nations who refuse to prosecute those crimes are the true bystanders. (And let us not forget that the Conventions might not exist at all without the driving force of the ICRC).

You have reams of information available at the stroke of a keyboard to educate yourself on the Conventions, the Laws of War,  the responsibilities of signatories and of humanitarian agencies. Whether you choose to improve your understanding or not is up to you. But to describe ICRC as a mere bystander is absolutely ludicrous.

The ICRC has also been a driving force behind establishing the International Criminal Court where charges and punishments for war crimes and genocide are meted out, almost since their inception.

They see first hand what war does to civilians, to soldiers and the atrocities that people commit on others in the name of war and knew that these people needed to be punished.

I'm of two minds about blocking articles from RT. But I do have to wonder why anyone would cite them as a reputable source without taking a cold hard look at what they're saying and who is paying them to say it. Yes, it's good to look at varying opinions on a subject, but dispersing propaganda is something else again.

I want to know why it took a Russian invasion of Ukraine to prompt US cable companies to drop a Russian propaganda channel.

Interesting article. Thanks for posting it carolb.

Chrystia Freeland, Canada's Minister of Finance, warned Canadians today that this war between Russia and Ukraine is going to be adversely affecting Canadians in a number of ways so to be prepared for it. But she also said that the decisions that the Canadian government are making are the only choices to make in this situation.

BC's public service pension fund has already started withdrawing from all Russian investments. Other provinces, various states and European countries have all started doing the same thing as well.

I am boycotting Russian Vodka. But then I only drink beer and Crown Royal for the most part.

Cheers!

Here is a Twitter thread about the spread of misinformation and how it has been used during this conflict by pro-Ukraine actors. The author, Laura Edleson, is an engineering PhD at NYU, who stidies the subject.

https://twitter.com/LauraEdelson2/status/1498742294056472578

@LoneJack Zn 6a, KC I know you were joking but CNN had a piece the other day stating that the vast majority of Russian vodka only has Russian roots and comes from elsewhere. Not sure if it was in there or if I saw somewhere else that Stoli put out s statement to that effect.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/27/business/russian-vodka-boycotts/index.html

I am boycotting Russian Vodka.

I know, this was said in humor. But I hope the ordinary citizens of Russia who may very well be fixing to be whomped by all the economic sanctions and boycotts, stand up for themselves against the poor decisions made by their leaders.

FOAS - yep, very little vodka is actually imported from Russia. In the rare case I drink a Bloody Mary or other drink containing vodka I use Grey Goose which is a product of France I believe.

Boycott Moscow Mules!

Ukrainian vodka is better anyway ;)

Some of the Russian army according to the NYT are youngsters who were conscripted and don't want to be there. The article talked about how some of the soldiers punched holes in the vehicle gas tanks stalling the advance, so they would not have to fight, or even surrendering.

I'm not a big fan of vodka, I'd have to sit out the discussion.

My son told me the same thing Lucille. They were told they were going on a exercise, not to war. They have little food, and are being slautered. I feel bad for them as well as for the Ukranians. Such a waste of life. These old men who want to rule the world just need to die off already.

Hmmm - is there a glitch, or someone having a flagging party? IIRC, there were 200ish comments earlier this afternoon, and now there are 190 (191 once this posts) & a comment I made around 4 pm is missing...

Then there’s the American-owned vodka that is produced in Russia. That’s the issue with a global economy, little is isolated.

That whole aside about brands/Quaker Oats Man and such is gone. I am not sure whether Hou%% wants to keep a tidy, on topic thread, or we have angered the unfortunate soul who who fl@gs for fun.

Many sources I have read claim Russians are clueless as to how serious the sanctions are. I can well imagine soldiers being shocked to learn their paypackets are worthless.

Disinformation coupled with a news blackout will not help the average babushka make sense of her world right now. The Russian people are going to suffer tremendously.

Russian pay checks aren't worthless and the devaluation of the ruble has no effect of it's buying power for 100% Russian made products. The decreased buying power would only be felt by the soldiers when buying foreign made products or Russian made products with foreign sourced material.

The ruble has lost approximately 35% of it's value to the U.S. dollar and A foreign made product would cost 35% more purchased in rubles, but a Russian product would be 35% cheaper bought with any other currency.

“That whole aside about brands/Quaker Oats Man and such is gone. I am not sure whether Hou%% wants to keep a tidy, on topic thread, or we have angered the unfortunate soul who who fl@gs for fun.”

Quite surprised and glad this thread continues to live!

100% ru$$ian made products.

And how many of those are there? You can't drink oil, not that it matters, since Ru$$ia drills with western equipment. Ru$$ia is not self-sufficient, not even close. They are a gas station masquerading as a nation. 'Sell oil, buy foreign goods' is the entire business model.

Of course there is still Ru$$ian made vodka, Cheers, mate!

FWIW I just learned I am not allowed to use the proper name of the belligerent country being discussed here. I almost feel special.

Yes, from what I understand (I have a Russian relative by marriage), Russian products - aside from the obvious oil and gas - are mostly things like tractors, machine parts, and the like. I do think the devaluation of the ruble is going to be felt by the public at some point.

How did you learn you're not allowed to use the proper name of the belligerent country being discussed here?

Kevin, When answering you, my reply did not post until I fixed the spelling. I could see my post not showing up because my avatar was not appearing on the KT front page preview of the thread.

Bookwoman, Back in the 80s I thought the anti Ru$$ian sentiment in America was overblown. I was thrilled to have a few things marked with made in the CCP- a porcelain tea set, a watch and a lacquer box come to mind. Then fresh out of college, in the late 80s, I was offered a job with the United Jewish Appeal in NYC. They were helping resettle Ru$$ian Jews. The work they did was awe inspiring, btw. At any rate, I couldn't take the job, but I spent two weeks learning about what Jewish people in particular and Ru$$ians in general suffered. It was eye opening, to say the least. I would never again see collectivist anything through romantic eyes. What was their slogan?

From each according to his ability, to each according to his work. -JS

(I have a feeling I may have already told parts of this story before. Apologies for probably repeating myself.)

Well I haven't heard this story before, so thanks for telling it. Indeed, the Russian people have suffered enormously throughout history. When glasnost began and then the wall came down, there was such hope for the country...and now it's been dashed by Putin.

I just learned that several old American beer brands are now owned by a Russian conglomerate - Schlitz, Old Milwaukee, Lone Star, Pabst, Colt 45 among them.. I was double checking, and found that the company's (Oasis Beverages) web page is "down for maintenance".

I don't drink beer, but found it interesting.

Shelling of Europe's largest nuclear plant has begun.

Chernobyl II will be the result. How can NATO stand by waiting for nuclear fallout to rain down on their heads?

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/top-wrap-1-europes-largest-nuclear-power-plant-fire-after-russian-attack-mayor-2022-03-04/

If anyone would like to help by donating survival and medical items, there is info in this news article. Donations

The prevailing winds being from the west (as in geograhic and climate terms, not the human and political) won't the major junk from the blowing up of the reactor at Chernobyl fall of the land and people of the aggressor nation first and mainly?

ole joyful

Actually I brought up Windy.com about 1/2hr ago to see the wind direction. It's blowing right toward Russia right now and the power plant is approximately 250 - 300 miles from the boarder.

One other point to mention is wheat exports from the unkraine and russia. They provide 29% of the wheat exports to the rest of the world who can't feed themselves. Mass starvation around the globe? I'm starting to think Putin is the third anti Christ.

@joyfulguy: That's not what happened when Chernobyl blew: the radioactive cloud swept north and west - Belarus, Poland, Finland, Hungary, Austria, Czechoslovakia - and as I recall, the outside world only learned about it when it hit Sweden.

"How can NATO stand by waiting for nuclear fallout to rain down on their heads?"

What a dilemma - if they don't act, the plant could blow and they have nuclear fallout raining down; if they do act, they have nuclear bombs raining down. I would not want to be among the generals, Prime Ministers and Presidents who have to make that decision.

My understanding is that most of the fallout will land on Ukraine, then, yes prevailing winds go back to Mother R. However, that still leaves non prevailing winds and there will be fallout over the rest of Europe. Just like with Chernobyl, Ukrainians will pay the highest price.

"They provide 29% of the wheat exports to the rest of the world who can't feed themselves. Mass starvation around the globe?"

I don't think the stat is correct - it's overstated by several times - nor do I think this speculation is anywhere close to possible.

As to whether fictional beliefs play any role in what may or may not happen, that's something each can decide on their own.

I've  hesitated to comment here because I don't particularly want to get involved in yet another skirmish. However, Kevin's figures appear to be correct, or close enough.  From Reuters:

"U.S. wheat futures rose to a 14-year high on Thursday as importers scrambled for supplies following the closure of ports in Ukraine and disruption to supplies from Russia. The two countries account for about 29% of global wheat exports."

Does this mean starvation for countries reliant on Russian and Ukrainian wheat?  No, but some of the other exporters have issues with drought and lowered production so there could definitely be shortages and genuine hardship for countries at the end of the supply chain.

https://www.reuters.com/business/russia-ukraine-conflict-highlights-wheat-supply-vulnerability-2022-03-03/

I’ve heard the Russians are in charge of the nuclear facility now. I hope they kept the people who know how to run it.

Of course you don't Elmer. "Just another Summer" ring a bell? You're comatose to the subject like every other subject under the sun but proclaim yourself a resident expert.

"Russia and Ukraine combined account for 25% of global wheat exports and Ukraine alone for 13% of corn exports, according to analysts at RBC Capital Markets."

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine crimps exports of the crucial food grain

Another creditable source I now can't find stated 29%. Most of the exports go to the mid east so no worries in your back yard Elmer. You once stated a lack of understanding why everyone can't have fresh food, so I'm confident you don't understand the effects of a grain shortage worldwide. Dah.

Do you like quality pasta made with Semolina? Durum wheat jumped 90% since the poor harvest in Canada and shortages are expected. I don't expect you to believe this either but If you remember I commented on this subject last fall with a link to a USDA crop report.

Since you pushed my button we can give Ukraine a C130 gun ship and we can transfer i squad of A-10 warthog planes to them. It's a top story in defense news right now, so don't tell me we can't. We can, we should and nothing is stopping us except one mentally incompetent man.

Here Kevin. AgWeb

“So, why are wheat prices seeing such momentum? Both Ukraine and Russia account for nearly 30% of the world's wheat exports. It's not just uncertainty about the crisis causing wheat prices to climb, but there's also worries about infrastructure damage in Ukraine and whether it will hinder the country's ability to export in the near future.”