Avramis roses and an OGR mystery
I just received two bare root roses from Avramis, a Greek nursery that also breeds their own roses.
Unfortunately, while Avramis is listed as an introducer on HMF, none of their roses seem to actually be on there.
I got one Avramis rose called Pink Ekrixis (AVRAkrix), introduced in 2012, listed as a polyantha/floribunda, described as 60x60cm, strong fragrance, continuous bloomer:
The other one is a bit of a mystery.
"Chios rose"
It is listed as an OGR.
Avramis say they got it from their collaborators on the island of Chios, who have been growing it for a very long time. That's why I got it, since the climate on Chios island (zone 9/10) is quite similar to the one here in Malta.
But what is the "Chios rose"? Again, nothing on HMF.
On the Greek version of the page, they actually say it is a Centifolia. But they also say it is a repeat bloomer.
As far as I know, Centifolias don't repeat, except for Typ Kassel and apparently even with that one the repeat is far from guaranteed.
Is this actually Typ Kassel, and is Avramis just exaggerating the rebloom description?
I notice that HMF says Typ Kassel has a wide growth habit (150x150), whereas Avramis describes Chios' dimensions as 150x80cm.
Is this a different reblooming Centifolia?
Another option might be that this is actually not a Centifolia but a Damask or Hybrid perpetual... but is Chios really a distinct rose or did Avramis rename a Damask/HP that is usually known by another name?
If any of the OGR experts on here have any ideas, I would love to have your input!
I will post pictures here as it grows, hopefully the mystery of the Chios rose can be solved!
Comments (28)
seasiderooftop
2 years agoRelated Discussions
Another Mystery striped rose - need ID
Comments (27)Thanks for the additional problem solving, Beth! I used to have Gypsy Fire from Eurodesert but it wasn't particularly hardy in my zone and has been long gone. As tough as this little plant has been for 4+ years I don't think I realized reading my notes that I can't guarantee this rose was a free RV rose however, since I don't remember what I planted there. I appreciate the advice to ask RV, but while I love their roses dearly I don't find that the folks answering the phones or emails are typically all that knowledgeable about the roses. This spring they sent me Ingrid Bergman (a dark red rose) instead of the Ingrid that I'd ordered (orange with yellow hilites Mander rose), and it took some discussion to convince them these weren't the same rose. They did give me the credit for the error, but I don't think distinguishing among possible striped roses would be likely from the staff I've encountered. Theoretically Ebharvey may be correct that this could be a seedling, but I've never had any other seedling grow in my yard in 10 or more years and 1000+ roses, so it would be odd if the only seedling I got was a nice striped one like this. Far more likely given the planting frenzy that happens in my yard in spring is that I planted this and forgot to label it some years ago. I remember trying to replace Gypsy Fire from someone but that was unsuccessful, and I wouldn't have put it in an out of the way place like this. I don't recall ever ordering JH Pierneef, but given your lovely photos I certainly would if the opportunity presented itself. I seem to recall the color being on the crimson side of red rather than orange tones, but the photo you see from back in (gasp) 2014 was the last bloom picture I have and the last bloom I remember seeing. Well, I suppose if it doesn't bloom I can call it Cynthia's Darling (or whatever I want) and no one will be able to contradict me. It's unobtrusive and stays tucked in some clematis most of the season so it stays by default. Still, it is a nagging little mystery that surprisingly after 3 years still isn't resolved. I'll keep a special eye out for it this season and see if I get any new blooms. Thanks as always for the problem solving! Cynthia...See More5th Friday Mystery Rose
Comments (10)I'm sorry, but this one seemed almost impossible to guess since the color in no way matches the RdV's I've seen in person. This rose might be called a lilac pink but it's not even close to purple. However, it's packed with petals and really beautiful. Ingrid...See MoreLowes Rose mystery - definitely NOT "Love"
Comments (13)Thanks guys! I agree that Scentimental is much more likely for a place like Lowe's and I did detect something of a fragrance I think on the rose, but my nose is unreliable and apparently the scent can vary a lot. The photos on hmf vary a lot too, but some of them have this mostly white with red/pink stripes like this does. At least I can testify that it blows like the wind and has rampant blackspot, verging on damask crud at the bottom, so all of that would fit Scentimental so far. I have a spot I can put it that would give it some relief from the heat and still enough air circulation to cut down on the BS. Cynthia...See MoreRogue Valley Mystery Mauve - looks like an OGR, maybe even Rook?
Comments (21)Good point Chris, though I have Indigo and the color is different in person than the blooms on this rose. I really am not good at rose ID so I'm relying on the input of folks who know Gallicas better than I do to keep it in that class of guesses. I haven't found that my Indigo suckers (yet), since it only just survives my winters, but time will tell, eh? So far this mystery rose has stayed pretty contained but it's only coming into its third season this spring so it hasn't found its wings yet. I'll post more photos if I can catch it blooming, and welcome input. And Anne - I didn't mention it, but Alice Vena is also a RV rose and a gallica, so it's entirely possible. My impression from the HMF photos is that it's a bit more purple than this rose, but I'm sure that depends on the weather conditions. I don't recall if that one was in stock during the period this rose was a mystery rose, but we'll see as it develops further this coming spring. Cynthia...See Moreseasiderooftop
2 years agoWow, @catspa_zone9sunset14 that is a stunningly beautiful rose bush!
If Chios turns out to be the Portland from Glendora I will definitely not be unhappy!
Meanwhile, I found another picture of a Chios bloom, uploaded to Pinterest by Avramis:
Hmmm ... I might be wrong but Chios' blooms seem less quartered than Joasine Hanet's. Then again, hard to really tell from just a few pictures of Chios.
I don't know what to think. I guess I will just let it grow and wait to see if there are more clues as it develops.
seasiderooftop
2 years agoseasiderooftop
2 years agolast modified: 2 years agoJust found Chios rose listed on an Italian seller's website, they have more pics (small screenshot here, visit the link for full size (scroll down, the roses are all on one page):
https://www.vivaiotaroni.com/le-rose-bourbonThey have it listed in the Bourbons, but then the description says they think it's a hybrid perpetual.
To my eyes, from the photos it seems more cup-shaped than the more quartered Portland from Glendora.
I will post updates when she flowers, but she's just barely getting started in my garden, so it'll be a little while before I can!
seasiderooftop
2 years agolast modified: 2 years agoChios got very badly damaged by the multiple storms we had, but it's still managed to make some buds.
Here's what they look like:
I don't have another rose with buds like that, so does anyone have any ideas?Hybrid Perpetual? Damask Perpetual? Bourbon?
@catspa_zone9sunset14 are the buds of the Portland from Glendora like this? From the HMF pics, the buds don't seem to be hairy like Chios, but maybe the pics aren't clear enough to show.
catspa_zone9sunset14
2 years agoYes, seasiderooftop, the buds of my "Portland from Glendora" has glandular hairs on the outsides of the sepals and on the peduncle, though, like yours, not so much on the receptacle itself. Here are some photos of buds just taken (it's actually raining a bit here, wonderful to say, so it was a quick dash in a brief moment of sun):
Closer up:
Another bud
The stems of your plant are also very much like those of "Portland from Glendora".seasiderooftop thanked catspa_zone9sunset14seasiderooftop
2 years agolast modified: 2 years agocatspa_zone9sunset14
2 years agoseasiderooftop, some traits do vary according to weather, etc., so observation over time will help determine what is typical for the sepals and such. This time of the year, in particular, the flowers of "Portalnd from Glendora" are very full and quartered and quite architectural. Below is a sampling of three different flowers and the whole bush, for future reference.
seasiderooftop thanked catspa_zone9sunset14
Bob Atchison - Pallasart - Hagia Sophia
2 years agoseasiderooftop thanked Bob Atchison - Pallasart - Hagia Sophiaseasiderooftop
2 years ago
portlandmysteryrose
2 years agolast modified: 2 years agoseasiderooftop
last yearlast modified: last yearChios finally bloomed!
Here are some pics. To my eye, those blooms are not like the Portland from Glendora. The color is lighter and the shape is different.
Her scent is strong, rather like the fragrance of Comte de Chambord.
seasiderooftop
last year
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
last yearlast modified: last yearseasiderooftop thanked Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
catspa_zone9sunset14