Funerals are for the living. The dead do not care. Attending to support your family is not in any way condoning his behaviors.

I do not do visitations or funerals as a rule typically. I have gone to 2 funerals my whole life, and while I do not "get" them, I see that sometimes having people come gives comfort to those left behind.

But if you do not want to go, don't. I do not go to funerals and do not feel bad about it. I want to remember that person alive, not laying in a box or as ashes in an urn.

I did not go to my sister's ex-husband's funeral, even though he was the father of her only child. I did not like him, and I advised my sister (as did everyone else) not to marry him. However, I cautioned her against getting a divorce while their son was still young.

I do not see the need to go to the funeral of an ex-brother-in-law. I would go to my current BIL's funeral, providing he dies soon enough. That is, if I am still alive and able.

Tough call, but I would say an hour or so out of your life to support your sister and her children seems doable. Don't think of it as attending his funeral so much as being a loving auntie presence for the children.

I would go to the visitation but not the funeral. Later I would do a private visit with your sister with or without her children. If he was that nasty to her she may be feeling relief along with some or no sorrow except for what might have been. If the children are there depending on their ages and how frequently you see them anything other than a hug would mean little to them other than they saw a familiar face in the midst of all the others.

I'm pretty set on going to visitation for the kids, but not the funeral.

If my sister goes at all, it's for her children.

I would like to comment about your title of "who are funerals for". While on the surface they are to allow people to express their sorrow to loved ones about how sad it is that they are going through this. They are also a method for people to show that the deceased meant something to them to the family. It takes more effort to go in person than it does to simply send a card.

The funeral is all for the family, not the deceased. So if you want to support your sister in what no doubt will be a difficult time for her and many others involved, then I'd go.

I think since there are children involved, I would go to the funeral to show my caring of them. This is still their dad, whether a nice guy or not. Let them know they will have family always, no matter what. It doesn't have to be an expression of how you felt about him, no need to lie, or whip out the hankie and shed tears ;0) But you can be there respectful of their loss. Is the service local, not a hardship to get there?

I don't think it matters, you should do what you want. Petty people keep score and pay attention. The people that matter won't care. Call it as you see it.

neko, I think that's my issue to overcome. For myself. I don't care what he thinks. Or others think. I know his momma cares, his kids care, even his ex wife. We are affected. It's more my level of comfort. I do KNOW I'll be there at visitation. Funeral, less sure.

But it's not about him. This is something I have struggled with for a couple of years. At what level do I need to go to the funeral? Really isn't about this deceased. I'm working on letting go. There have been times I've attended, when I didn't even know the deceased, or barely knew the attendants. I'm looking for future efforts. I think I will only go when it matters to those who are attending the funeral. I think

To piggyback on the question of "who are funerals for?" - I think it's selfish when people say that they don't want a funeral - it's not a birthday party! They will be in attendance in body only, not in spirit. The funeral is for those who are grieving, not for the dead. My FIL died rather suddenly after coming down with pneumonia. He was one of those "I don't want a funeral" people. So there was no funeral. My kids, who were in their early twenties at the time really wanted to be able to gather with family that they hadn't seen in years in remembrance of their grandfather, and were rather upset that they weren't given the opportunity to do so.

I do not want a funeral. The death industry is extremely predatory. And I do not wish to be remembered like that. Prepped, propped up, glued and stitched and painted. My shell on display to be gawked at. My parents are not having funerals. They have already arranged to be cremated and placed in their churches mausoleum. No fuss, no fiddling, no obligation. I think more and more people are opting for no funeral or just a small graveside service instead of the days long ceremonial ordeal. You can have a celebration of life or a private memorial with family without going all out and having a visitation, a funeral, the graveside service, and the reception.

This subject came up at our last family gathering. I was (halfway) joking that from now on, all family ceremonial events should be done over Zoom. My oldest niece graduated last year and the event was live streamed. I THOUROUGHLY enjoyed watching her graduate over the live stream instead of having to dress up, drive hours, sit in the heat, make small talk with strangers, then drive hours back. So I suggested (again only half jokingly) that ALL future events should be like that, Weddings, graduations, funerals, baptisms, whatever. To which my parents said " We are not having funerals, so its all good" The siblings there were all in agreement, its a waste of money, for what? We get together when we can anyway. no need to guilt anyone into attending a funeral of all things. So it was a good, important conversation. Until I brought up that I want to be composted. Then they all looked at me weird, go figure.

But I still hope that my 15 nieces and nephew choose to live stream their weddings and such. So much easier. And modern!

Not surprisingly, I disagree with this sentiment: Petty people keep score and pay attention. The people that matter won't care.

If someone were very close to me and didn't attend an event that was difficult for me, I would notice...not out of pettiness... but because I'd feel hurt that they weren't there to support me in a difficult time... that they thought so much less of our relationship than I did. It is the people that matter who do care. I wouldn't feel the same about the people who are just acquaintances. They don't know me well enough to give the support I'd need anyway... not that I wouldn't appreciate their coming...just that their presence or absence would not carry the same weight for me.

(There was that guy who showed up at my father's service...a guy he used to work with. After, Mom told me that he reads the obits and goes to all of those with whom he worked to get the free food!?!)

It's hard to define though as it's based on expectations too. My brother's anti-social/anti-family sentiments made it more of a surprise if he showed up at events rather than if he didn't, regardless of the event.

I think part of attending a funeral as opposed to just the wake has to do with the immediacy of the family. If you are a close relation then you probably should go. But this too is tempered by things such as if one is old, infirmed, at a distance, economically challenged making attending difficult, and so on.

Of course, if one's heart is tearing, then one wouldn't question it regardless of the relationship....one would go.

I suppose another way to think about it is your relationship with your sister and the children. Would you want to potentially damage that relationship or hurt them over a matter of a few hours of you time?

What are you saying, you did not care for this man so you feel its too good for him to attend his funeral? This is one last way for you to even the scale with him??? It is a tish dependent on your religious beliefs, in my Church we believe we are honoring God by celebrating the life that was lived and thanking God for all this soul did in the world, but for the most part it is societies way of putting a bow on the good bye. So the funeral is for the living. It sounds to me like his children are going to be a mess for awhile over this. Forgiveness did not come when he was alive so now they will carry that guilt as well as the frustration over the negative way they felt about him. It's an irony of our human nature, no matter how poor a parent is at parenting, children crave their love and acceptance. The fact that this family never got to reconciliation will haunt the kids for the rest of their lives on some level. If this were my decision I would be going to add an arm around them, bolster them, let them know if they need to vent, talk, etc. you will be there for them.

I’ve never regretted going to a wake or funeral but I’ve definitely regretted not going to one. When in doubt, I consider this to help guide my decision.

Funerals are for the living. If you love, respect, etc the family, and they need the ceremony, it

is they you attend for. But, sure don't want one for myself.

Those kids are probably so lost and confused and don't know how to feel, or if they owe allegiance to their mom or dad. You being there and visiting with them shows them all their feelings are ok, and gives them a role model for the future. Funerals are for the survivors.

Rob, go. It’s hard all around, but as ladypat mentions above, you are there for the kids, in many ways.

How old are the children?

My cousin's first husband...rat that he is...she's managed to forgive him, but I have not. His kids, especially his daughter, is nuts about him. If he passed, I'd certainly be there for them, not for him.

Immediately after a death, whether sudden or expected, those who cared about the deceased are in a bit of a fog. I'm not sure they would always NOTICE that extended family didn't attend services, but it would register later on.

I've been to funerals for my ex's parents to show my love and respect for THEM. Not for the ex. Maybe my reasoning was wrong, but those parents were good to me even when times were difficult and I wanted to respectfully acknowledge that publicly.

On the other hand, my husband didn't want to have a funeral or celebration of life, or any type of gathering. He was estranged from much of his family and had very few close friends. I didn't need a service for "closure," as ... believe me ... I knew he was gone. I'd been with him through the horrible, horrible decline and ending.

Services for a difficult person are very touchy. Even tho there may be some relief that the difficulties won't continue, there are still conflicted internal feelings to be dealt with. I think it's good that you plan to go to the visitation for his children's sake, and when you see them there, it may help you determine whether to be available for them at the service too.

They're adults, mid twenties.

We're going to the funeral. I was more asking logic for future funerals.

Arcy,. While poorly worded, I didn't want to hear the I'm sorries. He was a rat of a person. Including towards his kids. Who have very mixed emotions about him.

Go for the kids if you possibly can muster the courage.You will be there to offer comfort and support to them. In your heart you don’t have to be paying your respects to him, but he is their father and they will be mourning him. Even if just mourning the loss of the possibility that he could have become a better father someday. You won’t be sorry you went.

Yes, even though they are in their twenties, and have mixed emotions, they will be mourning, (and your sister may feel some as well - whether logical, conscious, willing, or not). Your presence will mean a lot to them - they will know that you are there to honor THEIR feelings and support them.

This is my personal measure of whether to attend a funeral or not: #1 What will it mean to the mourners? (including myself if applicable) #2 Do I want to show my respect to the life of the deceased, by my presence?

Sometimes you go to a funeral to honor the person. Sometimes you go to a funeral to support the family. And sometimes you go to a funeral to make sure they're really dead. Just kidding, but really, seeing him in the box may be exactly how you want to remember the guy.

Robb, I'm glad you decided to go. You will be an example of class to the kids -- by showing up respectfully for them and your sister, not saying anything bad about the deceased (but you don't have to praise him untruthfully, either!).

sometimes you go to a funeral to make sure they're really dead...

Reminds me of the old story about the well-attended funeral for Hollywood mogul Harry Cohn who was a real SOB and detested by many. The line was attributed to Red Skelton: "It proves what Harry always said: Give the public what they want and they'll come out for it."

For future reference you can always ask. You sister would certainly know why you are asking if she wants or needs you to be there. She would be the best judge of the situation.

Some people like to have large funerals. It makes them feel good to see lots and lots of people show up. I would personally prefer that people came to see me after a loss since that is when people feel very alone. In this case that of course is not an issue.

There are people who don't do funerals. There are people whose own inner thoughts put them in conflict at such times. Others will go to any funeral available. We all know people who live their lives with greater concern about what others think of them than of their own feelings. Such folks often like to stick their noses where they may not belong.

There are competing objectives here. If you don't want to go, don't go. You can call those persons concerned to express your feelings and best wishes for them personally, and then simply stay home. You've communicated your respects probably more effectively and personally than by attending.

Against my better judgement, I have a few times gone to funerals of people who, let's say, were thought to make the world a better place because of their leaving it. Attendance in both instances was sparse and there was no question among those present why that was. It was a reflection of the departed person, not at all of those who chose to not attend. It sounds like this guy caused enough havoc and commotion that he may be one of this type.

I wouldn't go but that's just me. I don't like them. I don't want a funeral myself and I saw above where someone said they thought it was selfish. I don't believe that. Why make your loved ones spend all that money on an elaborate money-driven show? I think some people believe the more you spend on a funeral/casket/flowers, etc...is equal to the love you had for that person. It's really disgusting how the funeral business takes advantage of grieving families.

If I lived out West, I'd be okay with a natural funeral, cheap, family/friends carry your body or ashes into the woods. No expensive casket and vault to bury you in. Such a waste.

Back to your question, it is for the families left behind but I wouldn't go to send someone off I didn't like.

For those of you who insist that you don't want your loved ones to have a funeral (and I really mean a funeral, a memorial service, celebration of life, etc.) for you when you die isn't it awfully presumptuous, and yes, selfish to tell people how they should grieve for you when you are gone?

Have you been invited?

Isn't it selfish to ignore the wishes of the one you are supposed to be mourning in order to fulfill some sort of compulsion to follow a ritual and ceremony that ultimately means nothing? I do not want to be remembered as some sort of taxidermy project. I find it and the ceremony performed around it after death in the form of a funeral to be rather disrespectful. If that is selfish than I am selfish. I do not think that a weird ritual after my death will lessen any grief felt. Its just a motion people think they must go through. It is SELFISH to ignore the wishes of loved ones for yourself.

Again, the death industry is not only extremely predatory, they are harmful to the environment. Caskets, vaults, embalming fluid, those are not good to the earth. It is selfish to contribute to that. I feel that in my parents case, for example, we will likely get together and reminisce, then move on with life. I think i would find it tedious if not outright annoying to have to deal with long forgotten relatives who are looking for a reason to travel to the south and try the BBQ.

Understanding WHY that person did not want a funeral, appreciating the reason and respecting it is the last act of honor you can do for someone. It is selfish to do otherwise. You can grieve together without a funeral. If you cant, that's your problem, not the deceased persons.

“Have you been invited?”

Funerals in the US are usually not a ’by invitation’ event if the place and time are published in an obituary.

floral, the exact opposite happens here. Family are expected to attend and sit front/center. Little choice about it.

I'm not saying that there has to be a traditional funeral, and see no point in open caskets, but many of those who are grieving would like to attend some sort of remembrance ceremony. Funerals, memorial services, celebrations of life are not for the dead. They are for the living, and I would never try to control what my loved ones do from beyond the grave.

Once upon a time these grieving ceremonies were done in the home, including the casket viewing by the way. The people grieved were there to receive the condolences of their friends and neighbors. Today that has been taken over by people who want to make a buck off of that. More power to them but dont expect me to participate. That is where I am coming from.

For those interested, look up "Natural burials" -- there are places set up for environmentally-friendly burials.

I hated my BIL more than I've ever hated anyone in my life for reasons I won't share here. When he died, my family did not shed a single tear: instead we asked what took so long. I attended the funeral to support his children who were devastated yet not blind to the man he really was. He was still their father. If my sister never had children with him, I would never have attended. I went for his kids and that's all and they all appreciated the support.

"I do not want to be remembered as some sort of taxidermy project."

amylou321, I love the way you put that! I'll never forget seeing a good friend who was a delightful, irreverant slob, dressed in a suit, with make-up on his face and a rosary draped over his hand. I took comfort in knowing that he would have laughed about it.

Death is a shock. We generally agree that it's good to support people after a shock. It shows we care about them.

I'd attend whatever wake or memorial service a family decides to have. All you need to do is be there -- in recognition of a major change in the constellation of a family.

i would go to support my sister and her children. your feelings at this time really don't matter, its about them.

i think funerals, services etc are for the living survivors. i have gone to some where i never met the deceased but went for the friends/acquintances who knew them. i always go for family if i am able. to me, that's what a family is - your support system.

DH & I will be cremated. we don't want to be 'preserved'.

your feelings at this time really don't matter, its about them.

Thank you. You're helping me narrow in on what I am talking about. It triggered my mind. At what point do I draw the line of it being about them was my original question. I've been to workmate's funerals, with whom I didn't work directly. Should I have gone? I did go because it was a suicide that other coworkers were devastated by.

It's a friend who quit hanging out with or calling me, but we went to school together. I mean, those are pretty obvious that I could skip them.

It's obvious you should attend when it's immediate family (everyone you know is connected to them) or a friend you talk to daily/weekly (though you're the one grieving, there are others who are in the same boat as you, and you can support each other).

When the line gets grey, it's harder for me to say no. I can't think of other instances, but I'm sure one will pop into my head. Oh, I know. My mom has a group of friends who have stuck together since junior high school (they're now late 70s), and I am not sure I'd attend their funerals. Even though, they're really like family to me. Would you?

DH has a sense of obligation. And, I get dragged along as his wife.

We went to a wake of a cousin, we attened a gathering with once years ago. But, she was the wife of his cousin who came when his dad passed away.

For whatever reason DH wanted to return the favor. No one knew him, had to ask how he was related, then of course understood the connection, being a cousin.

Rob, my personal feeling was we were not needed there. The funeral home was packed.

We each do what is right for us at the time.

When the time comes, you might want to go pay your respects to those women.

eld,

So here's why it's grey: A) I don't know their kids, as well as I know them?! Truth. If they're dead, I would be going for their kids wouldn't I? And B) I'm really irritated with them. There not a lot of times they have come to see my mom in the nursing home. She's the first of their group to be this frail. So why would I want to pay respects to somebody who is disrespecting my mom? I KNOW she would have gone to see them. Sure they all have their own issues, but I can't remember anytime they have, and she's been there for years.

"When the line gets grey, it's harder for me to say no."

It's such a personal decision, you should of course call it as you see it and do what feels right for you. And in doing so, recognize that many people's feelings and practices differ. .

I don't think anyone is truly "obligated" to do anything they have strong or inconsistent feelings about doing. There are other ways, some would even argue better ways, to show love and support at the time of a death. A person who looks around at a funeral "taking attendance" for who's present and who's absent isn't someone whose views should matter to anyone.

When you say that they are "like family to you" but then they haven't, or have very rarely, visited your mother, that is confusing indeed. Have they acted like family to you, personally? Made an effort to provide advice and support to you, or just incidentally since they were your mother's pals? Could you offer some support to their children, whom you know, more than a passing "my condolences"?

If not- Ha, I would be inclined to go to the first one, explaining to the rest of the group that you are there on behalf of your mother, who you know would have been concerned about xxxx's health and would have wanted to be there for xxxx during her last days if she could. And then walk away. And not attend the rest.

They WERE like family. Until Mom began assisted living.

Came to weddings, graduations, we're currently friends on Facebook....

Where did they go?

Nah, I wouldn't waste my time even doing that.

ETA: actually, it was mom's birthday recently. One said, my car doesn't work (has multiple homes), could you get her a card cause mine will be late... Another says I sent her chocolate, can you make sure she got it? (Um, she can't eat solid food anymore? (worsening dementia)). GET OFF YOUR LAZY REARS AND GO SEE HER!!! It's all of a 15-45 minute drive for both of them