Do it yourself, one of your life’s journeys. You tried a GC, and you think you could do better.

Do you want to complain about a GC, or do you want to celebrate your project completions.

Do you have the ability, confidence, finances?

Are you willing to:pay to learn?

You have people you trust, why are you concerned with finger pointing?

Your job depends on your “Rolodex”.

New posters on this site usually complain about Contractors gone wrong. When you go wrong, where will you post?

I'm sorry this post is long, but here's my advice.

I have had the same frustrations that you detailed in your post. The ONLY times I have had serious problems on a project are the two times that I really felt I needed to hire a GC bc the projects were big. We had some serious problems with a kitchen remodel that can all be attributed to the GC hiring cheap unqualified subs, one of whom didn't know water likes to go down, not up.

So when it came time for me to redo the 3 upstairs bathrooms, I was facing the same dilemma as you are now. Over the years, because of other projects, I had met a meticulous painter and a very skilled custom cabinet maker whom I really respect. I had a good plumber and electrician I trusted for small jobs and repairs we had done, and the painters crew had a good handyman on board for tying up loose ends such as installing hardware, lights, etc. BUT I didn't know any skilled tile professionals yet at that point, so I was worried that it would be impossible to find a truly skilled tile pro who was knowledgeable and meticulous about waterproofing. This was about 4 years ago. I decided to do a "semi" remodel at that time where we didn't touch the bath/tub combos bc I hadn't found a tile pro yet. We have the cabinet builder reface the vanities, make new doors and drawers, put the modern soft-closed and full glides. The electrician moved some rough ins; the plumber installed the new toilets and faucets, rejigging the plumbing a bit; a local glass company replaced the mirrors, painters repainted everything and I made pretty new shower curtains. We left the floor tile and the tub/shower combos alone at that time.

A couple years later, because of another project I had final found a tile professional who was meticulous about waterproofing. So I had him come and do just the 3 upstairs bathroom floors and tub/showers, one of which he made into a shower only and expanded into the attic to make it bigger. He was able to do all that without messing up the vanities, walls, etc bc he was careful to cover everything. I only had to do a little touch up paint which was easy.

Soooo, I did CG the 3 upstairs bathrooms myself, but because of the time lapse, it didn't all happen at the same time. If you do a little thinking about the order of tasks, I don't see why you can't handle the project yourself. I swear, it was actually relaxing, believe it or not, because I didn't spend the whole time afraid of what might go wrong. I trusted the people because I had already had them do some other work for me, and they knew I recognized quality work and was a reasonable customer to work with. I think the order of tasks for me was:

- demo (I did some of this, but the cabinet builder sent his younger brother/helped to finish up what I couldn't get out myself. We didn't not demo the vanities, they were on the subfloor with the tile coming up and stopping at the edge.

- refacing, making new drawers/doors

- electrical rough in which a few needed to be moved a little bit

- painting, install lights, hardware, towel bars, etc

- install toilet

So if you are going to do the bath/shower demo, framing, waterproofing and tile installation as part of this project, you would need to first, find someone qualified and then determine where that work fits into the order of tasks. Also, you'd need to determine who will demo the current bath/shower. In my case, I think if I had asked the painters handyman or my cabinet makers brother to do that they would have done it and just charged me for the day.

People always say that having a GC ensures that the project moves along, scheduling is smoother, etc, but that wasn't my experience AT ALL when I had to hire a GC. It was terrible. In theory, it should go smoother with a GC, and I hope it does with other people.

It's important that they all have insurance and you should definitely be sure you verify it. In my case the people I hired weren't just random guys. They run their own small businesses and are professionals so they had no problem showing me their insurance info and it was easily verified.

IMO the tile professional is the most important person on the job. You can go to https://www.tile-assn.com, and click on "find a contractor" to help you locate someone. Also there's https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org. There's lots of good information on those sites.

Also, if you're a nerd like me, buy a downloadable version of this handbook: https://www.tcnatile.com/products-and-services/publications.html

It's a handbook explaining industry standards for tile installation. It's only about $40 for a downloadable version It's about 600 pages, but you don't have to read the whole thing. Read the introduction (about 50 pages) and then read the bath/shower or shower only chapters that are relevant to your project. For example bath/shower combo, or shower stall only, steam shower, etc. You can also check out DIY books from the library and read about waterproofing and tile installation on this forum and on the John Bridge forum. Also, now I say this with caution...you can look at Sal Diblasi's YouTube channel to watch his videos all about waterproofing and tiling. Stop there though because you can very easily go down a rabbit hole of misinformation on the internet. You can also of course ask friends, neighbors and colleagues if they know a tile professional, but I bet they don't. They probably all know a tile "dude."

Doing all those things I just listed helped me ask the right questions and find a terrific tile professional who I hired directly to handle anything related to framing, waterproofing, and tiling. He did bring in a 2-man demo crew to hack up and take out the 3 bathtubs, and I'm sure if there had been anything else he wanted to sub out he would have, such as if there was electrical or AC equipment in the way when we expanded into the attic. There wasn't, but I trusted him to take ownership of the whole shebang and if he had wanted to get a sub for anything he would have. He and his colleague rebuilt 2 bath/tub combos, and converted and enlarged 1 shower, and they re-tiled all the bathroom floors.

Even though there was a gap between the "semi" remodel and getting it all done, I'm glad we waited bc I just had to find someone qualified for the waterproofing and tile work. If you can find your team, you can do it all at the same time, but space the people out so that they aren't trying to work at the same time. Bathrooms are small and cramped placed to work with tools, etc, so you'll just have to try to schedule the people smartly.

Best of luck with your project!

We are a qualified tile contractor. 80% of our work is direct to the homeowner. We "vet" the few GC's/architects/designers we will consider working with for some of the reasons mentioned on this thread. We have many repeat clients because we have relationships with them and they have secured trusted trades over the years. We KNOW those other trade partners and we are committed to work together for the best possible outcome for these clients. Cooperation between the trades is almost an art form. When the team is familiar and there is mutual respect, and a goal of a great outcome for all, the client's job of coordinating is much less. If you go that route, remember you have to build the relationships. AJCN outlines her process well. But keep in mind, you will not get those relationships if your goal is to "save money/cut out the GC up charge/ etc." There is a great deal of mutual respect required for those models to work well. You need to understand your time commitment and ability to pull together the best team. And be willing to pay for qualified labor. If a GC can achieve all that for you, then that is a great investment as well.

Charles: I am in California, where it is illegal for a GC to sub to an unlicensed contractor. OTOH, CA employment laws have changed in recent years such that an unlicensed sub defaults to employee. That is, by definition, an unlicensed sub is considered an employee -- and it is all good as long as the employee is covered by worker's comp.

AJCN: Thank you so much for your encouragement and the detailed response. I have a tile "dude" that I have used in the past and asked him about this project. I rejected his bid because he wants his son, a recent college drop-out, to do the work, and he is unwilling to cover his son with worker's comp (falsely claiming it is not needed because they are related). His son did a small repair job for me -- it took him 5 hours ($500) to replace one broken tile. So, yes, I need to find a good water-proofer / tile-setter, and I will follow through on your recommendations so that I can understand what is required. "Hot-mopping" is the technique most commonly used in my area for waterproofing.

Hiring a GC vs. doing it yourself is a completely different ballpark with a different set of liabilities.

Download this free checklist guide of Things You Must Do Before Hiring a Contractor:

freeguide.kickstarthouse.com

I'd much rather GC a bathroom remodel than teach kindergarten. :-)

I plan to hire a designer to prepare the plans to submit to the City; architects told me the job is too small for them. When I used an architect previously, the GC charged a 20% contractor fee on top of the architect's fees, as if the architect were a sub; thus, the GC accepted total responsibility for the design and installation.

When I asked a prospective designer about including details in the plan for the hallway bathroom, such as pitch on the shower curb, she said that the trades are expected to know this; it is not something she would include in the plans. (The curbs on my two remodeled showers are level, not pitched.)

In my experience, the construction crew worked individually, not as a team. The carpenter nailed a hole into the new copper pipes that the plumber had just installed. The electrician tried to install a recessed ceiling light in the downstairs bathroom in the same location where the plumber was installing a drain in the upstairs shower stall.

If I can find a GC who would be willing to commit to specific detailed requirements, that could work for me. How likely is it that a GC would sign up to that?