Ok, two votes for one and two for the other? This is just about where I started :) But somehow it helps anyway to get the different opinions. rhome, thanks for your offer, if you can do it in any nearest future it would be great (and I promise, no big expectations). If you can't, not a problem. I am already amazed at the input you are able to provide here while raising such a big family. as far as malhgold's idea, I love open shelving in kitchens in magazine photos. But in our case I think we'd give up too much practical storage if we changed that cabinet to open shelves and the adjacent cabinets to glass. It would limit us to dishes in all three. With wood doors, i could have my everyday dishes in the cabinet to the right of the sink and any other kitchen items in the cabinet to the left. Another concern is dust since we wouldn't have items we use and clean daily on the upper shelf above the sink. So whatever goes there would have to be dusted regularly. Also we have those other glass cabs on the other side, so it could end up being too much glass all together. So as you cal tell I sort of talked myself out of that idea. And I did check the 12" cabinets, they are 10.5 deep inside and i've taken my plates and pots down there for a "trial fit". Also, we may be able to move the lower cabs out by 0.75" and make the uppers 13" and 10" deep which would be great. I just have to confirm with the KD after the final measurement they did this week that we have enough room by the basement door.

I've never used Punch, but Better Homes and Gardens design softwares are pretty user-friendly, I think. Here is a link to the website. To compare their different software versions, there is a 'product matrix' linked through their 'products' page at http://www.homedesignersoftware.com/pdf/Land-vs-Base-vs-Suite-vs-Deluxe-Pro.pdf If these work like my Chief Architect, you can change the default settings to change all the cabinets, or you can change each one individually. The counter, backsplash, etc., however, will change all at once if the cabinets are up next to each other. If you wanted a black hutch or island, for example, you wouldn't want your software to change all of your cabinets to that color. Too intuitive could sometimes be bad. Here is a link that might be useful: bh&g softwares by Chief Architect

Yes, you've verified exactly what I described: many university undergraduate engineering programs don't have an acutal design program for engineer students until their final senior (4th year). That's one, single design program for undergraduate engineers. Drafting programs are not design programs. Drafting programs are why we have so many "help me" threads on this forum, i.e., the house designs were created by drafters and CAD operators who have no design sense or design experience at all. They cannot design. They can only draft. Undergraduate architectural programs (which are 5 years) typically start actual design studios the second semenster of the freshman year, and continue to graduation after 5 years. That's 9 semesters of true design studios, ranging from small scale to large scale projects of all kinds. It's why one cannot compare the design knowledge and skill of engineer students to that of architectural students. Of course, architectural students likely know beans about higher math, physics and the sciences... Ask me how I know all this...

No one needs any 3D anything for any of this. Plain flat paper plans are what get filed for the permits, used by the lumber yard and window supplier, and used by the foundation contractor, framers, and roofers. Etc. . Getting hung up on 3D renderings for anything is a ridiculous homeowner thing for someone who has zero visualization skills. It is NOT needed, and is counter productive to the process of actual space planning for someone who does have that innate space visualization skill. Like an architect. It’s a crutch for the homeowner that fixates on them prematurely for bad designs that should be cast aside. Theres nothing worse than a homeowner with software skill but no design skill.