I just realized this was a year old thread. Anyhow, if anyone ever reads it again - pie crust isn't all that hard to make. Just remember that what you're doing is shortening the flour, in other words you're rubbing grease onto the flour grains and that prevents the gluten from linking up too easily and making a chewy, rubbery crust. You want to develop gluten in bread, you don't want it in crust. What would you use besides butter? Maybe duck fat or even lard. Don't use margarines or commercial shortenings - they ruin the dough and leave a horrible coating on your mouth and to their credit, the good folks at the NYC Dept of Health banned them in baked goods. Butter has different amounts of water / butterfat ratios. That water isn't going to work on your crust like the water you add to the dough, but it will have an effect on the final product. When you cut the butter in, make sure you leave some larger pieces - pea size for example. It shouldn't be all uniform, which can happen if you use a food processor and run it too long. Pulse it. I always add the water by hand. Add a bit then pinch it together with your fingers. Toss those bits aside and add some more to the dry stuff. It's hard to give precise measurements because you have to go by feel, but figure one part butter to 3 parts flour and slightly less than one part water. And a bit of salt. So in measuring cups, that's like a stick of butter, 1 1/2 cups flour, and somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 cups of flour. And obviously you can vary those proportions - a little more flour, a little less flour, and your need for water will change accordingly. So add the water by hand and just gently work it with a fork and / or your fingers to make the clumps of dough stick together. Then gather them into a ball and smear the mass across the counter with the heal of your hand. You don't want to knead the dough like bread, but just smear it once or twice. The French call this fraisage and the purpose is to distribute the water and fat. Then gather into a ball and let it rest. Don't roll it right away. Leave it for an hour or more - you'll be surprised at how much easier it is to handle once it rests. The globs of butter you've distributed thru the dough when you rolled it out will melt, the water will create steam, and that will fill the vacuum created by the butter, blowing the crust apart into flakes. If your butter has a higher water content than some, you'll get a harder crust than if it's got a higher fat content - that's because the moisture will be incorporated throughout the crust with the butter. But even with the widely available commercial butters, you'll get a delicious crust. Duck or goose fat make a beautiful crust as well, as does good lard. The texture will differ however, as the water content is different from butter. Also, if you're using rendered duck fat, you may want to eliminate the salt from the dough if the duck has been salted. But taste and adjust accordingly. Any liquid will work, but water is the basic one. Milk contains some fat and solids. Cider, which I use sometimes, contains sugars, which affect the taste - not always for the worse. Vinegar and/or lemon juice also affect the flavor. Cold stock, which is kind of cool to use if you're using duck fat or lard, will have it's own seasonings and may have additional salt. Make sure the liquid is cold - you don't want to melt the fat at all, or make it too warm. It's tricky to use duck fat because it melts so quickly, so you have to work extra fast. Good luck.

A quick Pie Story: I may have told it before. But what the H3ll, I'm older than you all and allowed to do that. My MIL always tried to emphasize being carefull with the Gas Range, washing machines , etc. That was to my wife when she was growing up. Well when we were married about two weeks, I was coming home to my 2 nd floor apt. and my wife came running down the stairs, stopping me from going up to the apt. She said " don't go up there !!!" The oven is ready to explode. I went up to see what the problem was and heard a strange noise from the oven. Poof!!! poop!! Poof !!! Plop !!! I opened it, not knowing what to expect??? Here were two Apple pies Poofing away, she didn't make any slits in the top and the Whole Crust was lifting up and down and Poofing, Ploping away Her mother always warned her about the Oven exploding. At that time you had to light the oven with a match at a small hole in the oven bottom. If you turned on the gas and waited too long, there would be a BOOM!!! This was just one story of the many stories in Lou's " Life with my Wife "" I should have written a book. Like many other Recipe's , Most of the Pie Crust recipe's are about the same . I have had, and made, the one with Baking Powder added and it seemed to make a difference. How it is handled makes the biggest difference. LISA : Try rolling it up on your Grandmother's Macaroni stick not the Rolling Pin and then roll it out over the Pie dish. In the Army the pies were about 16 X 20. Think you can do one of those ? Keep practicing , when it don't work, roll it into a ball and throw it at your DH. Then he will give you the Wooden Spoon treatment. You will learn fast!!! PS : I don't believe you dipped bread in the gravy on Sunday morning. My Grandmother had about 25 notches on her spoon. They matched the Knots on my head. Lou

Hey gibby! What I do is buy 4 portions of Halibut with the skin still on the fillet, so I only put the "crust" on the side opposite the skin. Then when I am cooking it, I sear it on the "crust" side (without moving it so the crust stays on and forms an actual crust) until the crust is golden and crunchy, then I flip it to the skin side and continue cooking until it is cooked through. I serve it skin side down, so the crunchy crust is on top with the citrus butter. Does that help? Alexa

CHICAGO PEANUT BUTTER PIE 8-10 oz fudge cookies, ground fine 1/3 cup sugar 1 stick butter, softened 8 oz pkg cream cheese, softened 1 cup chunky peanut butter 1 cup confectioners' sugar 1 cup heavy cream, whipped Preheat oven to 350°. combine the cookie crumbs, sugar & butter until well blended. Press the mxiture onto the bottom & up the sides of a 9" pie plate & bake 15 minutes. Cool. In a processor, combine teh cream cheese, peanut butter & confectioners' sugar. Process until almost smooth. Gently stir in the whipped cream & pour into the pie shell. Chill.~~One Magnificent Cookbook PEANUT BUTTER PIE WITH PRETZEL CRUST (MUST make ahead.) Pretzel Crust 3/4 cup finely crushed pretzels 3 TBL granulated sugar 6 TBL butter, melted Combine the pretzels, sugar & melted butter, mixing well. Press firmly onto the bottom & up the sides of a 9" pie plate. Bake in a preheated 350° oven for 10 minutes. Cool on a rack.~~ Filling: 8 oz cream cheese 1 cup confectioners' sugar 1/2 cup peanut butter 1 large container Cool Whip Mix the cream cheese, sugar & peanut butter together in a food processor. Fold in the Cool Whip. Pour into the cooled crust & chill 2-3 hours.~~Desserts