Gas Insert for Wood Burning that has gas starter ??

3 years ago

So we had our current house fireplace inspected. There are open gaps in flue system. $3k to reline. Inspector thought it would be cheaper to get a gas insert since we already had a gas starter. He estimated about $1k....I called around and was quoted 4500-6k! Hoping I just don't know what I am supposed to be asking for ? Any help? Thanks.

Featured Answer

kevin9408

3 years ago

Trish there is a repair option for your clay liner that will allow you to keep your wood burner.

One option is HeatShield®, a chimney liner repair system.

https://heatshieldchimney.com/

They claim credit for there technique but my father told me 25 years ago the old school repair for leaking joints and cracks in clay liner was to put a sand bag down the flue, dump the right cement on top of the sand bag and pull it up sealing all leaks, and similar to heatshields method.

Another option and what I used 21 year ago was a little more involved. Because my clay liner was already in bad shape when I bought the house the sandbag fix wouldn't work and I didn't want to go gas, not the same. I measured the inside diameter of the clay liner and had a sheet metal shop make a stainless steel rigid rectangular liner 1" smaller then the inside of the clay liner in 3 ft. sections, which I riveted together with stainless steel pop rivets. As far as I know there is no one who sells rectangular rigid liners but do sell round ones. The sheet metal shop knew exactly what I was doing and also added a radius in all four corners to match the clay liner radius.

When It got to the bottom I blocked the new liner and sealed the space between the clay liner and the new Stainless liner and From the top I poured a mixture of mortar and vermiculite down the space between the two while taping and shaking the new liner until it was full.

The results? I'm still burning wood. Just this week I decided to replace the crown on top my chimney and was able to inspect both liners, the Stainless from the inside and clay from the outside. The stainless looked like the day I put it in with all rivets in perfect shape. The clay liner was sealed up by the mortar/vermiculite mix and believe it will last 50+ years longer.

I know this is somewhat involved but it is an option. If you consider this option the mortar/vermiculite mix was 1 part mortar to 2 1/2 parts vermiculite by volume and must be soupy enough to poor. Vermiculite is a noncombustible loose insulation rated for over 2000 degrees. You don't need the mix, just drop in a custom built liner but the mix helps maintain flue temperatures for a better draft and reduced creosote buildup when it's really cold out.

A word of caution, the flue size is determined by the size of the fireplace or wood stove opening and the height of the chimney, and needs calculated to determine if you'll be able to do it.

I had to do the rectangular size to get the proper amount of square inches to match my burner. Your burner may vary and may be able to use a round liner. Refer to this web site or other sources.

https://www.lindemannchimneysupply.com/determining-fireplace-liner-sizing

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Comments (13)

PRO
Patricia Colwell Consulting
3 years ago
Get a fireplace shop to come and look at the situation.
Trish Walter
Original Author
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
I am going to do that @Patricia Colwell Consulting but I'm calling and getting quotes and don't know what to ask for so hoping someone would have the terminology. Thanks. And if it's $4500-6000 I will just have it relined.
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Andrelaplume2, a few comments. You do not state where you live. I have a similar situation. I have a 20 year-old, 1700 square-foot, all-electric, split foyer home in Baltimore. I have been in the house for 5 years. The heat pump is original Trane (we should count our blessings that they have lasted 20-plus years). I have a masonry fireplace in the below-grade family room. I have allergies (dust, pollen, grass, weeds, cats, etc - I get an allergy shot every 3 weeks and have been doing so since childhood). I have been using my fireplace w/one-of-a-kind wood-burning insert to suppliment the heat pump. The insert raises the temperature of the family room from 65 to 72 degrees. The thermostat is in the living room and set at 68. The layout of the house is not open so the heat does not directly go to the second floor living area (where the thermosat is located) and bedrooms, but it does add BTU's to the house and heats the floor of the living room. The fireplace does not affect my allergies. Neither does mowing the lawn. Are you so sure of the effects of wood-burners on your allergies that you write-off the best sources of heat from your masonry fireplace (wood/pellet insert or stoves)? Propane and electric resistance heat are the most expensive sources of heat - and by a large margin as compared to other sources of heat. I run the house fan in the summer only. This does 2 things. First, it helps to move air in the summer (I have ceiling fans also). Second, the wife doesn't know when the A/C compressor cycles off so there is less of a chance that she is playing with the thermostat. You can run your house fan in the winter with your new heat source and see how it works. I find that there is cold-feeling air blowing out of the vents in the winter time when the firepace is going in the family room (there are no return vents in the family room in the ceiling). Is there a return vent in the ceiling near your fireplace? I agree with Bob Brown from the HVAC Forum that your basement heating should be done with your current HVAC system. When you replace your current heat pump, you can increase it's capacity if needed and add ductwork to your basement. My opinions.
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First of all, there is a 30% tax credit (on parts and labor!) on better-quality inserts right now if you can get them in service (not just paid for) by Dec. 31. I suggest you see if you can get an insert job done; Maybe Uncle Sam will pay for the insert if you cover the labor. Now for your main question about doing it without an insert. I looked into this once and concluded that without an insert, gas log conversions from any type wood burning fireplace are mainly for ambience, not heat. The best I could come up with was, I learned that some RH Petersen logs with GF in the part number are designed to work with doors closed and thus keep the heat in the firebox instead of going up the flue. Maybe we could hear from someone with GF logs. There are also some other brands that advertise "reduced vent" logs, you might ask about those. In both cases I have my doubts about, even if it does produce heat, how much, and is it practical to get it to work with a thermostat.
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maddielee
3 years ago
Call and ask for the approximate cost of a gas insert. Explain that there is already a gas line to the existing wood burning fire box.

You may be able to find info online. Search; converting a wood burning fireplace in to gas. Or something like that.

Good luck.
maifleur03
3 years ago
You need to have it either relined or a insert going completely to the top, wood or gas. Too dangerous to use it without doing so.
maddielee
3 years ago
A ventless gas insert does not need a chimney.
shead
3 years ago
Oh no, @Trish Walter! What a bummer! This isn’t your new house, though, right?
Trish Walter
Original Author
3 years ago
@shead it's the house we're selling. always something.
lyfia
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
We put something like this in ours about 10 years ago. They require venting though so not sure about your flue. Wonder if the inspector got confused.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Pleasant-Hearth-Willow-Oak-30-in-Vented-Gas-Log-Set-VL-WO30D/206558693?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&mtc=Shopping-B-F_D28I-G-D28I-28_20_FIREPLACE-MULTI-NA-Feed-PLA-NA-NA-BASE_SHP&cm_mmc=Shopping-B-F_D28I-G-D28I-28_20_FIREPLACE-MULTI-NA-Feed-PLA-NA-NA-BASE_SHP-71700000041073829-58700004389677717-92700036924273686&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-uH6BRDQARIsAI3I-Uf-wyeshC2nIJqxS0f7wKeQNVzaI3pnAeP7DzJBTfrCSpsuy2XycNwaAhfjEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
lyfia
3 years ago
Maybe something like these. Not sure if you need an insert to use them or not. It doesn't seem to mention that. Says they can be converted to vented too so may not be the case. Maybe you could ask them.

https://www.woodlanddirect.com/Fireplace-Accessories/Ventless-Gas-Logs?state=27873
Bruce in Northern Virginia
3 years ago
We had a questionable flue on the wood-burning fireplace when we purchased our house. I called around a little about having the flue lined, but it seemed like every fireplace guy had a little different idea about what to do with the old masonry fireplace.

We finally purchased a Peterson ventless gas insert from Hansen Wholesale and we were very happy with it. Even Hansen seemed to feel that vent-free had significant disadvantages (not as realistic, possible CO risk), but it was more energy efficient and did not require any work on the flue. We also added a digital CO detector to the room, but it never showed any change in the CO level when the logs were operating.

Bruce
mxk3 z5b_MI
3 years ago
Do you really want to do that? I have a gas fireplace now, previously had a wood-burning stove at my other house. I would have much preferred a wood-burning fireplace instead of the gas. I used my woodburner all the time but hardly ever use the gas -- pretty much just at T'giving dinner when I have a houseful of people and want the ambiance. It gets expensive to run the gas, the fan that circulates the air gets on my nerves in a quiet house, plus there's nothing like burning real wood - gas is just not the same. I say pay the $3K to have it relined.
Trish Walter
Original Author
3 years ago
@kevin9408 we decided to split the cost of relining the flue with the buyer.

Gas Insert for Wood Burning that has gas starter ??

kevin9408

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Patricia Colwell Consulting

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Gas Insert for Wood Burning that has gas starter ??

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