IMO 18” is too small what are 14” wall cabinets, is that the depth or the height.

What does “14” wall cabinets“ mean? Not height surely. But if you meant width, what does that have to do with you being short?

In any case, the standard distance between countertop and bottom of upper cabinets is 18”. You will be fine with 17”, but no lower or you risk not being able to fit the coffee maker, paper towel holder, mixer, etc. underneath, and aesthetically it will look cramped. Ignore Patricia Colwell’s rec for higher than 18” distance. She has said many times on this forum that she is tall, and furthermore each of her clients is tall, and therefore she tells posters who ask that they need a 20“ distance. The reality is that is too high for most women.

Thanks so much Shannon, i agree. I actually have lived decades upon decades with 20" high 1950s cabinets, and they're much too high for me. Shortlings & weaklings are being steadily squeezed out on all fronts from this height & might oriented world, to the point that practically nobody cares about our needs anymore. We've been effectively rendered invisible. We are actually the most discriminated against by a large majority, yet there's no societal awareness, because it's never given the tear-jerker publicity afforded to other causes.

As for wall cabinets, i meant 14" depth. Sorry I should have clarified. So in other words, if wall cabinets are 14"deep vs. 12"deep - and there's only 17" clearance from counter to wall cabinet, is there then more chance to bump into them? (even short people?

Would 12" or 18" avoid that? Because even 2" extra of 14" offers more storage space.

Thanks again!

Extra depth might be useful for glassware, but plates are still going to basically occupy the whole depth, just with space around them ... you're not going to want something in front of them, and storage behind a stack of plates isn't going to be anything you use a lot ... maybe the extra glassware behind the salad plates.

You'd definitely need under cabinet lighting, or or your counter would be much too dark. I'm short, and I dont think I'd want the cabinets further out ... they'd be kind-of in your face, unless you're also thinking of deeper base cabinets, though then it's going to get difficult to reach the back of the upper without a step stool.

I just measured and our uppers are 15" above the counter ... its a little tight over the utensils, but I hadn't even thought about their height much before this, so no issue with height change, just be aware if you want something big on the counter that you won't have standard.

The most EFFECTIVE storage is actually not upper cabinets at all, no matter your height. Uppers are good for fragile glass wear, for coffee mugs, a few dry good you use very frequently, ....and honestly not much else, unless something you use very infrequently, and don't mind dragging out a small step stool.

Drawers below the counter ,on the other hand, are great for plates, for mugs, for bowls, for pots and pans, .......you name it. Yes even plastic wear for the microwave,

Before you plan a new kitchen, think about that. Or post the plan : ) There are many ways.............

I totally agree if at all possible all lowers and all drawers is the way to go wether you are tall or short. BTW most women are taller now than ever and that 18” spacing has not changed ever so IMO shorter is even worse. Yes you will hit your head if the conter is 25” and the cabinets above are 14” deep and you are taller than 53” if you lean forward when working on that counter that is why 18” and 12 “ deep was the norm for ever. IMO now tah 15” deep uppers are becoming the norm that 18” spacoing is going to have to change so best to start thinking no uppers and lots of drawer storage you will love it.

All drawers would be a definite no for me. I don't want my mixing bowls in a drawer ... they belong in a cabinet. Tupperware/Rubbermade/Ziploc/whatever is easier to see in a stack, but could get jumbled anywhere, so that could be in either, I guess. I like my plates in a stack in a cabinet, as well, but I guess it's a preference whether you want to lift down from a cabinet or up from a drawer ... I prefer to be able to see how many plates are in the stack. Drawers are great for utensils and tools (measuring cups, ice cream/cookie scoops, egg beater, etc.), Some pantry things work well in drawers, others will end up with layers of buried items.

Cookware goes in a cabinet ... and if you insist upon putting it in a drawer, make sure it's a strong drawer (same for plates ... those are probably heavier unless we're talking about cast iron), and you probably want to flip those lids upside down so the handles can't get caught and jam if the lid is sitting funny.

When my parents were designing their kitchen, the cabinet people came and held the uppers at standard height, and my mum went over and reached like she was using them ... my dad just laughed. The cabinets were not hung at standard height. My grandpa installed their cabinets at standard height ... a step ladder lived in the kitchen so my grandma could reach things in anything past the bottom shelf, and the over-the-range microwave had tons of chips because she had trouble getting things in and out due to the height of the uppers.

Decide what depth you want and be there for the installation to dictate height ... or if your cabinets will be ordered to go to the ceiling, get something cheap from Home Depot and play with it at different heights ... even just holding up a cardboard box with cabinet shelves drawn on it might give you a pretty good idea.

Thanks Jan for the interesting pics, Thanks traci for resolving my Q, and thank you all for the rest of your feedback, since every bit counts. And makes me realize that 17" clearance combined with 13"deep wall cabinets may be a good bet for me.

Why do "mixing bowls belong in a cabinet' when ergonomically it is a greater reach for a heavier item and a strain...............? To wrists especially, and especially when one is height challenged/

They "belong" where they are easiest to access, both out and back IN. You could ask thousands who have made the switch : ) That could be why there are so many images of alternative drawer storage on the internet.

I will never forget a day over ten years ago at the home of a client. Dying for a bit of ice cream, I searched for a small bowl. Round and round I went. No bowls. Finally opened a drawer in the island. BINGO! She had small children. They unloaded the dishwasher, set the table each night. Genius....................................: ) All the plates, bowls, below deck. Even the sturdy drinking glasses. Neat as a pin, no "jumble" anything.

Most of my mixing bowls are in a lower cabinet and one of the lightest things in the kitchen. The set of Pyrex bowls are a bit heavier, and they do actually live in one of the uppers, but it's at eye level, so no worse a strain on the wrist that trying to maneuver the stack out of a drawer. Plates, bowls, and glasses are never a jumble ... the only jumble in the kitchen is the foil trays in the drawer under the oven; they move and tumble if anything has been taken out because they get shaken by the movement of the drawer (Yeah, yeah, I could recycle the whole mess, but it's nice to have something disposable for somethings.) That drawer has the broiler pan, a couple cookie sheets, the little toaster oven sized pans, the small cooling racks, a frittata pan, and the foil pans; I hate getting the broiler pan out because of its location. The 9x13 brownie pan also has a bunch of things stacked in/on it in the cabinet under the window seat (bread pans, muffin pans, Madeleine pan, etc.), but somehow it's less annoying to get out ... both are a pain to put back (have to remember how it fits!) My sister has her storage containers in a drawer and it works fine. My sister recently designed a new kitchen, mix of cabinets, shelves and drawers, heavy on the drawers; last I heard: too many drawers. The drawers on the family room side of the island now hold art supplies, and the art supply cabinets in the family room hold kitchen stuff. I guess it's a matter of figuring out what works for you. I could use a bigger kitchen.

Wait, are you seriously comparing height to things like racial discrimination and inequality (and mocking them for their “tearjerker publicity”)? Gross. And embarrassing and shameful. Don’t come at me telling me how hard it is to be short. I’m five feet tall and sometimes not being able to reach things is a bummer but it is not even the same sport as racism.

I was all set to talk through how we set up our kitchen to better accommodate my height, but naw.

"The most EFFECTIVE storage is actually not upper cabinets at all"

Oblivious that not everyone has a spacious kitchen in a spacious house with plenty of storage elsewhere. @Jan Moyer, there are people who need every inch of storage for their kitchen and do not have the luxury to do away with their upper cabinets.

Setting that elitism aside, I have stored my dishes, glasses, and many other items in upper cabinets--for decades--and find that storage to be excellent. Who wants to be bending every time you need to get something. I do that with my pots and pans, and that is fine, but enough. The OP has not mentioned she has disability issues that prevent her from reaching.

To the OP, are you doing frameless or framed cabinets? With frameless, the 12" standard depth for uppers is less of an issue, but with framed, it definitely is. Either way, typically when people have deeper-than-standard uppers, they go for 15" uppers which is the sweet spot for storing larger-diameter dinner plates, and more rows of glasses. That is often paired with 27" deep counters (standard is 24"). The base cabinets themselves are the standard 24" deep, but the counter is pulled away from the wall an additional 3". It's a wonderful design if you can swing it, even if just on one wall rather than all around.

Here is some reading for you:

Thread Called Base Cabinets Counter 27" deep pros cons

Thread Called 15" deep kitchen wall cabinets with 24" deep countertops

Excuse me, M.Miller while on the one hand, i thank you for your very helpful tips, and would have followed up if not for being sidewinded, what's that about elitism, M.Miller?

jemimabean, what's black & white & RED all over? A newspaper?

NO! Because i'm black w/shock, white w/shock and I'M SEEING RED. How dare you accuse me based on zilch?? Moreover, what color is my face? FYI my eyes are what they call black.

Why are you bringing race into this? Is cancer not a tearjerker cause? Is special-ed not a tearjerker cause? Ditto for so much more!

Let me ask you - what size AND width feet do you have? Do you have SEVERE neuropathy, AND SEVERE varicose veins, AND SEVERE TARSAL-tunnel syndrome, AND SEVERE Tendinitis - all in your feet & legs, all because for decades you couldn't find decent shoes to fit Size 5 feet which ALSO have a wide toebox? Do YOU have the sort of narrow-ankle wide toebox configuration WITH short feet?

Do YOU need to get little boys' 4.5 SmartFit sandals, because those are the ONLY ones which fit you after HOURS AND HOURS at PayLess, while your legs were killing you trying on zillions of shoes?

Do YOU need to get little boys socks, since those are what fit you?

Are YOU able to not keep warm well in winter, because no good-quality socks fit you IN LENGTH, nor would they fit IN WIDTH inside shoes, due to short & wide feet?

In the past, there was specialization such as shoemakers, so one didn't have to worry about a mass-production, one-size-fits-all world.

BRRRRRR - am i in a rage! I'd like to see YOU jemimabean trying to enter just a TINY WINDOW of my harsh experiences as stated above. Boy would you freak out. And - you better believe its just a TINY WINDOW. Because i also suffer painful smile-cheek muscles since childhood, not being able since childhood to even "whisper" M & N sounds when i'd have colds as it would feel like my internal membranes are being slashed, and SO much more. Would you like to experience all this? And that's the tip of iceberg!

So I hereby accuse YOU of discrimination to me, because i can practically assure you that your experiences do NOT hold a candle to MY harsh experiences. Do you really think that blacks are the only ones to suffer INTENSELY? And yes, i acknowledge that blacks have suffered intensely, and have been rendered invisible for centuries. I acknowledge it, because i've eyes in my head, and i, too, am invisiblized on MANY fronts. But as for you, why don't you just LOOK around you and analyze. Look inside nursing homes. Look inside institutions. Examine INDIVIDUALS! Are they any less invisible? With needs which are neglected, like my own have been invisiblized?? Like Fauci has invisiblized HCQ and Anti-Cholesterol solutions?? Like stem-cells have been suppressed?? For crying out loud!!

So, Yes, i'm seeing Red! Based on my own experiences i'm seeing Red! No less than BLM, so there you have it.

I did NOT say do away with uppers. I said what they were best suited to. I am over %"6" and I can tell you what is on that upper shelf. Nothing I needs regularly.. That is for darn certain. I would ask you not to refer to a common sense and now much used method to store anything, as elitism, when it is NO loss of storage, and for many, if not you....................just fantastic.

Jan, i thought M.Miller might have been referring to me as elitist. It really wasn't too clear, but if she wasn't, i hope she forgives me. But as for jemimabean's assumptions, those were crystal clear. How dare she?

The truth is, i think this thread may be turning out to serve as an eye opener not just about kitchens, but also about people's "other" real-life experiences & social experiences.