hello all : Been looking at this page for a while - and was inspired to try something I read - a wild yeast captured from Caraway seeds. After 5 days and a few additions of my own - think I have a live sponge - Started with soaking FRONTIERS ORGANIC Caraway seeds ( I read this - dont remember what site - said organic would be sun dried as to heat dried) in some water in jar - dash of flour - not really sure why next morning drained seeds , added 1/2 of flour closed cap of jar and shook to mix - within 1 hr I had froth - next day still frothy - so put into bigger jar and added 1/2 flour and water - shook to mix - cracked lid for outgas - very frothy and smelled like fermentation next day less froth strong fermentation smell - so added some apple cider vinegar from a dropper I was cleaning out - secured cap and shook - cracked lid for outgas - next day, little movement but lots of hooch and strong fermentation smell - so I added more vinegar , did the mixing etc... this morning I was making bread with yeast - decided to play with the concoction - used up organic fruit juice sweetened apricot fruit jam jar took 1/2 of the mix I started - just shook that to mix and cracked the lid - could smell a touch of vinegar in the mix - the main jar I just added some home stone ground white winter wheat flour - maybe 2 tablespoons and mixed with wooded spatula I mixed the yeast dough I had started last nite -now thick like pancake batter - just checked it a moment ago and appears to be live and starting to bubble I shall report back tomorrow with more result - thought those might be interested in my experiment cheers:

No forgiveness needed Cecilia! Here are the original instructions. I find them to be rather convoluted but I'm giving it a go! As posted by Ann T......... Home Cookin Chapter: Recipes From Thibeault's Table Sourdough starter - Amy's bread =============================== copied from: http://countrylife.net/pages/recipes/672.html Amy Scherber's Sourdough Starter RYE STARTER From AMY'S BREAD, copyrighted. Amy's bread This starter is begun with rye flour because rye just LOVES to ferment and is an easier starter to get going than a wheat starter. When I first made it, it had a bubble or two within a couple hours. The procedure is to start it with rye flour, then transform it by changing what you feed it. The original rye will dilute to nothing over time and you'll end up with a white flour (or whatever other grain you choose, it could be whole wheat or pumpermickel, or you could leave it as a rye starter) and water based starter, but it had the advantage of beginning it's life from highly fermentable rye flour. Start it with organic rye flour and spring water. Once you have it going well you can switch to all-purpose white (or other) flour as you choose. The use of spring water is recommended for maintenance, however, as tap water may contain elements (such as chlorine) which may be detrimental to the health of your starter. I also recommend that you use a container that you can mark the volume levels of starter each time, so that you will know when it has doubled. Use a marking pen or tape or any other means to indicate on the container the starter levels each time you feed. Phase 1 - Combine 2 oz organic rye flour (room temp) with 4 oz spring water in a clear container. The batter should be about the consistency of very thick pancake batter, add more water or flour if necessary. Cover & let it sit for 36 - 48 hours at 75 - 77 degrees (a little cooler is okay but over 80 you will incubate the wrong kind of bacteria and your culture will have an unpleasant bitter taste). You should start to see tiny bubbles forming after about 24 hours. By the time it has doubled, there will be a noticeable network of small bubbles throughout the batter & it will be foaming & bubbling on top. (If the batter has not doubled within 48 hours, feed with 2 oz water & 2 oz flour (add more of either if necessary for the consistency) and let it sit another 24 hours or until you see some definite activity.) Phase 2 - Stir the culture down, notice how soupy it's become. The batter should have a noticeable sour smell & a mildly tangy taste at this point. Add 2 oz water & 2 oz flour and stir vigorously until well-combined. Let it sit for 12 hours. It should be showing a fair amount of activity at this point. You should see lots of foaming & bubbling through the sides as well as on the top. Don't be concerned if the culture deflates & loses volume. This means the yeast has exhausted its food supply, but it will continue to increase in acidity. Don't worry if your culture isn't dramatically active yet. As long as there is some noticeable activity going on and the mixture smells & tastes sour, you're on the right track. Phase 3 - The culture should now have a pronounced, sour, fruity taste and smell, it should not taste musty or bitter (if it does, discard and start again, paying close attention to the temp of the culture at all times). Now you can start "transforming" it into a white (or other) flour based starter. Use 6 oz of the starter, add 3 oz water & 3 oz flour, stir vigorously. Let it sit for 12 hrs at 75 - 77 degrees F. Refresh it again, setting up a maintenance level of 12 oz of starter. This will be your "mother" starter that you use to build the sourdough starters/sponges needed in individual recipes. Each time you take part of the mother out to build a starter, you must refresh it with equal weights of flour and water to bring it back up to its maintenance level. To maintain - Use 6 oz of the mother culture (discard the rest), add 3 oz water & 3 oz flour, stir vigorously, let it sit at room temp until doubled in volume. A strong mother will double in 8-12 hours. If yours doesn't do that, let it continue to sit out until it has a nice tangy taste and smell; discard all but 6 oz and repeat this procedure. Repeat this procedure as many times as necessary until the mother doubles within 8-12 hrs. It may take several days. Don't get discouraged, it's worth the effort. To use for recipes - Combine 1/2 c (5 oz) Mother from the refrigerator, add 3 oz flour and 2.5 oz warm water (85 - 90 degrees). The mixture will be stiffer than the mother. Let it sit, covered, until doubled in volume (if it doesn't do so go back to maintenance procedure). When the starter has doubled, it is ready to use in a recipe. Measure the amount needed and discard any that remains.

I'm glad I posted this -- I'm learning all sorts of things! I didn't realize that sourdough isn't necessarily sour -- but it makes sense the commerical stuff is more so. (I had a friend's homemade sourdough recently, and while it was a very nice bread I remember thinking it wasn't nearly sour enough!) The sour taste is really what I'm going for -- if I can't get that going naturally, I'll looking into adding the taste in with other things. (I picked up a littl container of buttermilk powder for another recipe -- that might be a good taste to play around with!) Thanks for the explanation on acidity and the viscosity of the starter, Carol; that's helps a lot. The alchemy of baking has always intimidated me -- it's good to have a clearer idea of what's going on. I'll keep plugging away for a while longer with this starter, perhaps feed it whole wheat for a while and see if that builds up it's puny flour-lifting muscles. If not, the soured yeast dough may be the way to go, jessica; I didn't know you could do that. It might actually be better way to go, given the infrequency with which I bake. I'm still going to work with this starter -- Ill keep you posted!

That site seems to have a great deal of good solid general information. I'd suggest using wholegrain flour to get the starter going. There are more naturally-occuring yeast on the outside of grain that is milled into flour, than you'll "catch" from the air. Whole grain flour will help foster a larger colony of yeast in the starter than bleached or unbleached flour, but they will also work. Once it's going, you can change to whatever kind of flour you want. Rye flour will ferment quicker and you'll get a starter going a little quicker than with wheat flour. Word of caution, rye starter is a little smelly. So after feeding the starter a few times with rye, you can switch to whatever type of flour you'd like to use. I use freshly-milled spelt because it has more carbohydrates which is what the yeast feed on, but I've used all kinds of flour successfully. The thing to remember, find a version you like and is successful for you. Starter isn't just ONE type or method. I use a century-old method called Everlasting Yeast, but have used others. Starter recipes and methods are quite varied and the information for "how-to" have a lot of contradictions, as you probably already found out. "Purist" stick to water/flour mixtures and poo-poo using the modern recipes (which may include adding bakers' yeast to get it started), but you'll find lots of recipes that include sweeteners, milk, buttermilk, etc... Whatever works for you - there's not a right or wrong, just a choice. For every "never" you'll find an "I ALWAYS!" Such as, never use tap water that has been chemically treated. The chemicals can kill the good bacteria in the starter. Lots of people ONLY use tap water. NEVER wash the container in the dishwasher because rinse-aids left on the container can kill the good bacteria in the starter. You'll find lots of people who always wash the container in the dishwasher. I like the science that goes with naturally-leavened breads and have included a link to a favorite site for more information. -Grainlady Here is a link that might be useful: Food/Sourdough Index