My most recent questions re: Covid 19

sjerin

I have some residual questions that I don't know the answers to, but maybe you do.


1. What is the "germ" situation on masks? I know it is a good idea to wash them after being out, but if I were to visit 2 or 3 stores in a day, putting it on and off, am I putting my hands on the germies? I do try to handle it only by the ear pieces but I was just wondering about this. Have there been any studies? I can't stand to have it on in the car as I feel the need to breathe deeply!


2. So, being that they now think the chance of surface contamination is much(?) lower than previously thought, can I pet/play with the grand-doggie without worries? I doubt there will ever be such a time, until vaccines are readily available, when I don't worry about this and other contact, but it sure would be awesome if we could finally see him again, in the back yard of course.


3. Are current covid patients being questioned as to their exposures? While there's no way to know for sure how one may have contracted this terrible disease, I wonder if the tracers' jobs involve an effort to determine this, and not just whom each person has come into contact with. What are your thoughts as to why people are still getting sick, despite the use of masks and distance? And yes, I'm appalled at how many people choose not to wear masks while amongst others--this is beyond selfish.


4. While I realize there is a high percentage of asymptomatic people, do you feel most everyone at this point in the pandemic would stay home if they feel ill? Granted, there are those who whose families would go hungry if they didn't work, and I wonder how many people fall into this category. So many other countries have done a better job in making sure no sick people go to work, imo.


I look forward to your thoughts!

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blfenton

You have some of the same questions as I do.

#1 - I asked a friend of mine that this morning. She is the manager of a chiropractor office and is in charge of protocols. For herself personally she takes the mask off by the earpieces and lays it down flat on a paper towel and then tries to put it back on only using the earpieces and is careful about readjusting. What she does do is she will use a sanitizer that she keeps in the car after taking it off and then after putting it back on. She doesn't want any contamination on the steering wheel etc.

Me - I would probably use a new mask but I have 5 of them in the car.

#2 - My son who owns a dog has been a real rule-follower throughout this pandemic. He originally wouldn't let me touch the dog (and he was/is a puppy so you can appreciate how hard that has been!) but now that we are in stage 2 of reopening and we are allowed to extend our family bubble he is now letting me pat the dog. But he says I'm not allowed to pat stranger dogs. And there was a puppy on our trail run this morning who wanted to be patted so desperately and I almost caved.

#3 - can't help you

#4 - I don't know. I will stay home if I don't feel well. But, is my throat really sore or is it just dry because I'm dehydrated. Am I sneezing because I have a cold or because the Lilac bushes are in full bloom - tough call. Dr. Brix this morning told people to stay home from church if they are feeling unwell - that I don't see happening. But here, our churches aren't open yet and no one is clamouring for them to be so.

Everyone is going to have different opinions and different comfort levels, so good luck coming up with any cohesive opinions.

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maifleur03

Only time I was traced was when Mono was going around in my group. I can only go by that but I also am aware that most areas do not have enough tracers to do a through examination.

What is supposed to happen in tracing is that a person is asked whom they have been around for a period of time. What places they have been and how closed were they to the people in the place. Each person that you mention is supposed to be notified that they were with someone who had the disease and that they should be tested. On my paperwork there was a contact telephone number to call if I tested positive so that the people who I was in contact with could be notified. Names are normally never mentioned only dates and sometimes places.

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wildchild2x2

1. All the info is here. If you are not following these guidelines then the mask is of limited use at best and more dangerous than going naked at worst.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks

2. All along we have been told Covid19 is passed through droplets and vapor. The virus also needs a host to survive. One shouldn't need to be a scientist to reason that dry surfaces are unlikely to carry live virus. Dead virus perhaps, but live virus needs a host. I don't worry about touching things. I do wash my hands well between activities and any time there is even a remote chance of cross contamination.

3. Yes the tracers are trying to chart not only carriers but also see if one might have been contact with a potential carrier. They will need to drag me to court before I share that info with them. I am all for my doctors tracing my contacts should I actually catch the virus. That is common sense. General tracing of the entire population along with testing is not.

4.I think personal responsibility says that anyone feeling ill should stay home pandemic or no pandemic. I got a lot of flack from keeping my sick kids home from the school back in the day. Unfortunately some workers have a tough timing doing so. if anything good comes out of this employees should feel safe staying home when ill and not fear losing their jobs. Should - stay home. The reality - people won't.

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OklaMoni

wow, blfenton... 5 masks in your car... and I thought, I was overboard with 3. Most people I know about only own one or two masks.


Moni

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patriciae_gw

Use hand sanitizer after handling your mask when you take it off and put it on if you cant wash your hands. The idea is to not get the virus in contact with your moist surfaces. Eyes, nasal passages, mouth.

A virus is not exactly alive at the best of times. It actually needs a host to live and replicate. it is a parasite. So think of it as alive no matter where it is. It will degrade-break down, the insides fall out and it can no longer spread. There are sites to tell you how long it takes for that to happen on different surfaces but we mostly get it from inhaling virus in the air. Still wash your hands.

Go ahead and pet the dog-wash or sanitize your hands afterward. While they can get the virus from us it seems we cant get it back from them. Your personal pets are safe for you.

I cant imagine not adding to the knowledge base about some one contacting me. A person who has the disease needs to have their contacts followed. Based on how long and what kind of contact that was will inform the system as to what we need to be doing differently than we are. How is that not something you want to be a part of? Don't you want to know if you were infected or have infected others? Are you going to be a Typhoid Mary? She refused to give up being a cook. As a carrier who had no symptoms ever she spread the disease over and over as she took the job of cook in families. She killed a lot of people because being a cook paid better than being a regular servant in a home.

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blfenton

oklamoni - I seem to collecting them. A friend made a couple, we bought a couple as a fund raiser for our city Aquarium, we bought a couple to support the food bank and we bought a bunch of disposable ones from the drug store. They seem to taking over the passenger seats of our cars. :)

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yeonassky

I now have a habit of sanitizing my hands before I adjust my mask or take it off. Then I sanitize my hands again when I change masks. I wash my masks in the hottest water with soap when I get home. I have three or four in my car at a time. I bought some to support charity and bought some at my local health food store because they were comfortable and seem to work well.

I do I think that people who aren't constantly exposed to the virus might not have to worry quite so much about the perfect fit etc for a mask. At least that is what I read. So I worry a little less about using a mask as long as I am socially distant as well.

I always remember that a mask won't protect me but socially distancing will plus a mask plus stringent cleaning. As long as everyone else is following those protocols as well.

Some people just cannot tolerate the idea of following the social distancing rule so I really have to cringe away from them. Everyone's sensibilities are different.

I would play with the dog. I'd wear a mask. I wouldn't however kiss the dog or cuddle to closely against your face. I would wash face and hands before and afterwards so you don't transfer anything. It's either the dog has something and you get it on you or you have something and the next person gets it from the dog.

Dogs cats and minks can contract virus from us. Not sure if they are spreaders per se except that the virus might be on their fur and be inadvertentlytransferred to your mouth.

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sephia_wa

"One shouldn't need to be a scientist to reason that dry surfaces are unlikely to carry live virus. Dead virus perhaps, but live virus needs a host. I don't worry about touching things."


The CDC says otherwise:

"It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes. This is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads, but we are still learning more about how this virus spreads."


Then there is a whole section on cleaning and disinfecting surfaces -

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/disinfecting-your-home.html


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jemdandy

The mask protects other people from you more than it protects you from other people. Therefore, it should be fine to drop the mask down around your neck when driving. You might want to keep the mask in place if you are driving through a parking lot, or other locations, loaded with pedestrians near your open window.

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Texas_Gem

I am more or less following the same rules/restrictions I have always taught my children; even before the pandemic happened.


NEVER touch your face unless you have just washed/sterilized your hands.


Something I have tried to impress upon my children for YEARS...doctors/medical staff see and treat sick people on a daily basis but they aren't constantly sick. Why?

Well, pay attention to what they do.

When they come in the room, they wash their hands before they touch you/examine you, then they do their examination, then they wash their hands again.


It's not magic, it's science.

Viruses can't move on their own...and the human body is NOT so easily penetrable.


MOST illnesses need a vector to get in, aka mucous membranes, i.e eyes, nose, mouth.

Germs are EVERYWHERE!!! But they can't get in easily except through your eyes, nose and mouth.


So don't let anyone cough/sneeze near you and always wash your hands before touching your face and you should be pretty good.


As for shopping/going out in public, I'm doing the same thing I have been for the past 8 weeks.

I park at the store. I put my debit card in my front pocket. I put my N95 mask on. I go in the store and make my required purchases. I go out to my car, load my purchases in the car, use hand sanitizer on my hands, my debit card and my keys. I get in the car and then, ONLY then do I touch/remove my face mask.


So far, so good.




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Annie Deighnaugh

A tracer's job is to find out who a positive patient has been in contact with, but afaik, at this point, we still can't get adequate testing and speedy responses let alone any tracing. I'm not sure if any states have put any thorough tracing resources in place, unfortunately....let alone any mechanism for isolating people who may have been in contact with positive people.


What are your thoughts as to why people are still getting sick, despite the use of masks and distance?

My thoughts are that the primary transmission is because people feel fine for days and yet are highly contagious and spreading the disease.

I've seen people not be careful about masking (including covering their nose, not just mouth), about hand washing, about physical distancing. Right now the biggest outbreaks are occurring in places where people congregate be it a religious institution (apparently singing does expel more droplets than normal talking) or workplace such as these meatpacking plants where people spend a significant amount of time in close quarters with others. And of course nursing homes where the residents may not be able to be compliant, the staff lacks adequate training and may be unable to get appropriate ppe and the homes don't have the capacity to segregate the infected from the uninfected. We'll see how it goes with restaurants re-opening where you *can't* wear a mask and eat.

I worry too about intergenerational family transmission....the younger ones are still working and going to the stores and out in public and then the grandparents can't resist seeing the grands and the next thing you know, distancing is gone and hugs are back.

It's also a matter of people being quarantined at home if they get sick where it's far more difficult to keep them from infecting the rest of the family, if they haven't already by not realizing they were contagious while still feeling well.

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nickel_kg

TexasGem that's great how you're teaching your kids good hand/face hygiene -- habits developed early tend to hang on. For the rest of us (well, for me!), I'm waiting for this to come back in style: (in case the image doesn't work, the description from 'bombshellbettysvintage.com' is "Vintage 50's Black Velvet Crown Cap Netted Veil Hat")

I'm only partly joking :-)





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sephia_wa

"The mask protects other people from you more than it protects you from other people."


That doesn't make any sense. If someone else has COVID and is asymptomatic, they don't know they're sick. If you're around them, and they're wearing a mask, their droplets aren't going to be expelled to you. And if you're wearing a mask, you're also protected. Supposedly.

The CDC confirms this:


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/cloth-face-coverings-information.pdf

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woodrose

sephia_wa, jendandy's post makes perfect sense and you proved it with your quote from the CDC. So does your own statement, except for this, " And if you're wearing a mask, you're also protected. Supposedly. ".

Read this simple statement.

If I wear a mask it protects you from my droplets. If you wear a mask it protects me from your droplets.

Got it ?

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sephia_wa

woodrose, no, I don't "got it." That's not how I'm reading jemdandy's comment. But thanks for trying.

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Elmer J Fudd

Heavens to Betsy, the misinformation that circulates. Read the CDC words again. Get help to understand if you can't do it on your own.


If you wear a mask, anything short of an N95 industrial strength respirator, it protect others from you to some extent. Period.

It doesn't protect you from others,

It doesn't protect you from others.

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chisue

Responsible people wear masks to protect others. I wear an N95 in public because IT protects ME -- to a far greater extent than any other mask, but not *perfectly*, and not if I don't pay attention to how I wear it and how I handle it. I will almost certainly die if I am infected. My lungs are in poor condition from having asthma for 40 years, and I am required to take chemo once a month to stave off a blood cancer (Multiple Myeloma).

Why wear a mask if you're 'not sick'? One reason is because you don't know if you have the virus. Some people *never* have symptoms, but have the virus. These are the most dangerous carriers because they are shedding the virus at a heavy rate while unaware they have it. Another reason is that your mask can filter out some virus droplets coming at you from other people...and to a much lesser degree, from surfaces.


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bleusblue2

Elmer J Fudd

Heavens to Betsy, the misinformation that circulates. Read the CDC words again. Get help to understand if you can't do it on your own.


If you wear a mask, anything short of an N95 industrial strength respirator, it protect others from you to some extent. Period.

It doesn't protect you from others,

It doesn't protect you from others.

~~~~

Nothing is 100 percent. I go by this -- four layers filters out more than two layers -- what is illogical about that? So if both people are wearing two layer masks and one has the virus and the virus has to get through FOUR or more layers. ...

I don't have n95s. Just a regular hand made two layer mask with a coffee filter inserted, making it THREE layers.

I understand where you are coming from -- but you're coming down too hard -- Period. Why "Period?" No.


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Elmer J Fudd

Are medical personnel who encounter the public doing so with masks of two layers of cloth and a coffee filter in between?.

This isn't that hard. Read the CDC material linked above by sephia and quote for me what it says about what a cloth mask accomplishes for the wearer. Keep looking if you don't find it the first time through.

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sjerin

Thank you all for your thoughts and I'm sorry it's taken me so long to get back to this. (I'm not sick.)

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arcy_gw

#1 Any germies on the mask came from you. I have one mask in my car I wear only when inside a building. Don't make this a prison. Calm down. Getting over paranoid is a waste of energy.

#2 Yes you are safe to play with your dog. You always were. If you encounter a neighbor's dog and wish to pet it--do. Upon return to your home it is always good practice to wash your hands and keep them away from your face.

#3 It is an airborne virus. It is virulent before people have symptoms. Wear your mask. Wash your hands. Stay home as a matter of lifestyle. Business have to start up..but that does't mean we should be willy nilly about leaving home.

#4 Remember we stay home to slooow down who gets ill. NO ONE said this would save lives, they said they wanted to flatten the curve meaning decrease who is sick at any given time, so hospitals can deal with the worst cases and not lose people due to not being able to treat them. People spreading this I hope are unaware they have it because they are silent carriers or they aren't yet feeling ill. Which is why EVERYONE ALWAYS should wear a mask when inside a building. It helps all of us!!

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Annie Deighnaugh

Dr Atul Gawande was on and he explained how no step by itself works, but by being diligent about all of the 4 steps listed, we can mostly keep the virus from spreading even in office situations:

  • hygiene...hand washing, sanitizing surfaces etc.
  • PPE...masking
  • physical distancing
  • testing
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sjerin

Thank you for your thoughts, Arcy; however you and I are on different pages.


In posting my questions, I was hoping to see why some otherwise healthy people get sick and some don’t, all things being equal. I’m neither paranoid (now—I was when this first hit,) nor nonchalant. I am still appalled by people who view this virus as no big deal and worse, thinking nothing of how their actions affect others. I am guessing that for those lucky enough to stay home, living either alone or with others lucky enough to stay home, we are fairly safe.

Annie puts it fairly succinctly.

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patriciae_gw

Viral load is supposed to be important. The more of the virus you are exposed to internally the more likely you are to get the disease. The more you have the more likely some will connect, infect and grow. We do our best to keep it as low as possible.

By putting off getting Covid-19 it is entirely possible that it will mutate to a different form that will be less infectious or less virulent or both. I have heard this particular virus is not particularly mutable-that means apt to mutate, but it still changes. Why pandemics come and go or end completely is still a mystery not well understood. Lets not forget that over 100,000 people have died in the US alone, most of them in two months. That is with all the safeguards we have been using.

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