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Antique Roses Roses

Healthy DA climber rose similar to Lady of Shallot?

Adelaide (Z8b Canada)

3 years ago

last modified: 3 years ago

Since planting my first 2 DA roses, I have fallen deeper into this pit and am now looking to get more roses! I am hoping to plant a climber in my backyard, but the spot will be next to 2 blueberry bushes so I won't be spraying anything (unless it's the same thing I will be using on my blueberries, but I will only use organic sprays or insecticidal soaps). So I am looking for something that is quite healthy. I would have to say since I only just planted my first 2 roses this year in containers, I don't quite know what roses are susceptible to in my area.

From perusing all the forum posts, I gather that Lady of Shallot is a very healthy and vigorous climber. However, I am just not a fan of that orange colour...how I wish I am! Other than the deep orange and the deep red/maroon colour (a la Darcey Bussel), I am actually up for most other colours. I am hoping to keep to a DA climber as I like the old English look, but if there are non-DA roses that bloom a similar style flower (I really like deeply cup shaped blooms) I'd be open to it!

From the list of DA climbers, I have looked at Wollerton Old Hall and Claire Austin (yes all very cup shaped!). I am hoping some experienced growers can impart their wisdom on the health and repeat flowering of these, or can suggest any other ones that would be as "beginner-proof" as Lady of Shallot. Lady of Shallot was also listed as great for bees - which I would love since it'll be next to my blueberries. I totally wish I like orange! FYI, the two DA shrubs that I have are Queen of Sweden and Jude the Obscure.

Thank you in advance!

Featured Answer

bayarea_girl_z10a_ca

3 years ago

Have you thought about Spirit of Freedom? Here is mine. Helen

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Comments (21)

totoro z7b Md
3 years ago
How about Bathshaba?
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Talk to Maria - she will give you good advice. She is the niece of rose guru Frank, who sadly passed away some years ago. She learned from him and her own experience and you tell her what you want and she can advise you. My Tess is in full sun until about 2-3pm and it does just fine. It is really big - cant say about how flexible it is because I have it on a big metal fan trellis and it has been like this several years, but think the young growth would be flexible. Abe Darby, not as big as Tess, is a must have for me - I love the color, the scent......I have one as a shrub and one as a small climber. I am not bothered with blackspot as I spray......am not religious about it, but do it a bit more than occasionally so its not much of a problem. My Golden Celebration is on my front yard fence, in full all day sun. It has never grown or bloomed much but still hangs in there. Last fall, I dumped a big pile of composted horse manure on it - I am seeing better growth this spring. Maybe I have been remiss feeding it and just need to really give it some TLC. I complained about Graham Thomas not blooming, and Maria suggested Carl Pool BR-61 and lo and behold, the stingy sucker started blooming. Chamblees sells Carl Pool BR-61 and you should pick some up - its a good fertilizer that can be hard to find. I buy the gallon roses from Chamblees rather than the larger size because of price difference [and I am always buying so many!] but you might want to spend the extra and get larger roses for more instant gratification. You will have a great time looking through everything. When I went last Friday, I was with a friend who is a gardener but isn't into roses so I tried not to spend too much time looking. I really like going to Tyler by myself so I can take all the time I want. So I cant recall exactly which Austins were available......I know I saw a beautiful Tess. If you need shrubs, I would definitely pick up Sophy's Rose [this was Frank's favorite Austin] - Molineaux, Tamora, Scepter d'Isle [this makes a lovely shrub, blooms lots], definitely Carding Mill. I am going to get Heritage next time I am there........saw one at a rock and stone place in Nacogdoches that was huge and covered with blooms - need to find a space for it though. It was new last year, but I like my Darcey Bussell. Ambridge Rose has a lovely scent and beautiful blooms. I had a Benjamin Britton years ago, but it was not in a sunny spot and rarely bloomed but it did act like it wanted to climb. Might try this again in the future. Have fun! And do report on what you bought! Judith
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I actually have all four of these varieties. This is the first year for Boscobel; it is trying to establish itself although it has bloomed a few times. I'm not sure what the verdict will be on it yet. Lady Emma Hamilton is a nice variety. It blooms regularly although not in large numbers of flowers. It has more of a semi-constant trickle of beautifully colored, blended orange flowers with a very nice smell. It sprawls sideways rather than get tall. Lady of Shalott is a heavy flowering variety when it gets established. It also gets quite large, tall and wide. It has the most flowers of any in the Austin orange group. Summer Song does not care for the heat. Mine have done a bit better this year than usual, but that is not saying much. Our weather last May included a freeze that clobbered everything. Summer Song's flowers were not all that nice this year although rebloom happened, and the flowers were quite small compared to what they are normally like in spring. The bush gets lanky with some long canes. The flowers are a pretty color and have a nice fragrance, but I would not recommend this one for my climate. If you are leaning a bit towards apricots and want an Austin variety, I would suggest also looking at Carding Mill. That one is a nice one. I hope this helps.
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They are hard to come by on fortuniana. Only K&M carries them and Cool Roses in Palm Beach has a few, but they recently said they were going to stop carrying them because of high royalties or something. I was so bummed because I got most of mine from them. K&M is really pricey when you add shipping to it. But it's worth the extra $$$ because on fortuniana they can last for years and years. The longest I've ever been able to keep any rose on Dr. H alive is 3 years. My Darcy Bussel was doing well until now. I have ONE Austin still going strong (on Doc) after ordering from them 3 years ago and that one is Wollerton Old Hall and its showing no signs of slowing down. I think growing them in large pots works well, even if you only get 3 years out of them that's still a lot of blooms. My oldest Austin on fortuniana is Evelyn and she's easily 9 feet tall. She grows like a climber bare legged till about 8 feet and then all leaves and buds on top. It's not the most attractive habit, but she pumps out the looms like crazy so no complaints here. :) With the exception of Dick Clark and Easy Does It, all of my Austin's out perform my HTs I'll be trying some own root from now on however (if I can't get them on Fortuniana) because I think some own roots actually do better for me. Just not sure about putting them in the ground.
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Playboy, Hot Cocoa, Oklahoma and Lavaglut are gone from my garden. When I started having vole problems I took the opportunity to dig them up and give them to a friend. Golden Celebration and Night Owl both have been terrible with BS, despite several early-season sprayings with Bayer. They're really too big to move so they remain. But only until I get ahold of the vole problem. (Guess I'm kinda letting the voles have them, sigh!) The roses I kept are mostly in pots, and I believe I can grow them all no-spray once the BS magnets are gone. I'm really happy with the health of Sunshine Daydream, Tamora, Prairie Harvest, Lions Rose, the Fairy, Darlow's Enigma, Blush Noisette, Vanity, Mystic Beauty, Belinda's Dream, and Easter Basket. I'll also keep Lyda Rose and Lavender Dream; they do occasionally shed a lot of leaves but always recover. I ordered mostly Kordes roses this year which I plan to grow in pots: Savannah, Eliza, Pink Enchantment, Peach Drift, Dark Desire. Sure hope they're healthy!
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totoro z7b Md
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
I have WOH wrapped around an obelisk.. Petals drop cleanly, but don’t last as a cut flower. Does not blow as fast as Heritage. Myrh fragrance. I think the color is a bit blah but it is next to Teasing Georgia and Heritage so it blends in.

TG is great for me and fragrant.
Adelaide (Z8b Canada) thanked totoro z7b Md
totoro z7b Md
3 years ago
From near to far: Tg, WOH, Heritage, Eden , Sombreuil
dianela7analabama
3 years ago
Another vote for Spirit of Freedom and Teasing Georgia. I have both and they are very healthy no spray in heavy blackspot pressure. Wollerton Old Hall is brand new to me so no info yet. James Galway is also very healthy so far.
Adelaide (Z8b Canada) thanked dianela7analabama
User
3 years ago
I've yet to meet an Austin rose that I would consider "healthy" here in the Pacific Northwest. They all succumb to Blackspot to some degree. Some spend most of the growing season leafless.
Adelaide (Z8b Canada) thanked User
Adelaide (Z8b Canada)
Original Author
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
@bayarea_girl_z10a_ca Wow your spirit of freedom looks gorgeous! I am definitely adding that on my list! Your photos should go into a DA catalogue haha

@totoro z7b Md I have considered Bathsheba but I'm not too sure about the shade of orange....I wish I can see it in person before deciding but I don't think there are that many DA roses grown in parks in my area...And the little corner in your garden looks lovely! It must feel amazing sitting in that chair surrounded by roses. How is teasing georgia for rebloom for you?

@dianela7analabama James galway looks lovely as well! Good to know that Spirit of Freedom and Teasing Georgia are both healthy for you. I definitely don't want to have to spray much!

@User If blackspot is an issue for you then I feel like it probably would be an issue for me as I'm just across the border in BC. Do you spray at all? If you do, what do you use? I am wondering if an organic fungicide would be OK if it does get pretty bad....it would be heartbreaking if my roses become leafless!
Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
3 years ago
I have read great things about Jayne Austin and sorely regretted losing my cutting of it this winter.
ac91z6
3 years ago
Deep, cup-shaped blooms that are healthy in your area... I think we might be able to find you some Austin lookalikes to consider!

How important is fragrance? 'Florentina' https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.65521 is a healthy red with cupped blooms, but little to no fragrance. 'Lady in Red' https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.329182 is another red climber (though to my eyes it looks less Austin-y. Still very lovely, but not quite as cupped).

'Kiss Me Kate' is from Kordes Parfuma line and supposedly very fragrant. There's a bunch of pics of her in a few current threads here, and I'm starting to think about getting one myself! https://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.73098.1

And how could I forget 'Colette'! https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.17307&tab=1

You're in a much warmer zone than me, so you could probably grow some of the noisette hybrids, teas, or other Old Garden Roses! Hopefully some of our posters who grow these see this thread and can give you some ideas.
Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
3 years ago
Is this a Canadian zone rating or American? There is someone who posts from your area, but perhaps on the Antique Rose Forum.Let me think of his name if no one else does first.
Adelaide (Z8b Canada)
Original Author
3 years ago
@ac91z6 Ohhh thank you for all those suggestions! I have previously looked into some Kordes roses before but I wasn't quite sure how they behave. I think somebody had mentioned they don't rebloom as well as DAs but maybe it's more dependent on the individual roses. I'll look into those for sure!

@Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley I looked up my zone rating on the Canadian government's website, I hadn't realized they might be different! I'm very close to the Washington state border but am in a bit of a warmer climate pocket (hence shifting over to 9a in the Canadian hardiness zone map). I'm not sure how to compare the different ratings.....
Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
I don't know where he lives in relation to you, but....... Rideauroselad. You can look up all of the threads he started and comments he's posted.For instance, here is a thread he started last year, South Okanagan, and another on a public garden for which he curates. the roses. Summerland Ornamental Gardens Hope this is of some help.
Adelaide (Z8b Canada) thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
Adelaide (Z8b Canada)
Original Author
3 years ago
@Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley Ah he's in Summerland BC, famous for their fruits! That area is both much warmer and colder than where I am because it is further inland, so I am not sure how that would compare to mine....I see he listed his zone as 6a. But maybe he would still be familiar (or knows someone who might be familiar) with my area - thank you for letting me know!
totoro z7b Md
3 years ago
cant really say about TG repeat because I don’t really remember and because it is deep shade and also because I think I have midge problem.
Rose Lai (9b)
3 years ago
I used to live in Vancouver British Columbia Canada for 6 years. My family still lives there, so I visit often. There is a big, famous rose garden within the Butchart Gardens on Vancouver Island with lots of roses, including climbing roses. I remember they come into full bloom in early June. If you pay a visit, perhaps you can see which ones do well in your area? The climate on the island should be similar to yours. There is a ferry from to Victoria Vancouver Island from Tsawwassen, south of Richmond.

Vancouver is a fairly challenging place to grow roses (compare to California where I live). due to all the rain and humidity, disease pressure is high. Black spots, powdery mildew and also downy mildew are problems there. My mother and sister in law have a considerable number of roses which are plagued by diseases each year. I agree that most Austins which do well in California will struggle there. Knowing which ones do well in your local climate is key.
Adelaide (Z8b Canada) thanked Rose Lai (9b)
User
3 years ago
If you still want a DA rose, cupped, strongly scented - very sweet, and pink, .. with a growth habit similar to Lady of Shalott… then you might want to consider 'Royal Jubilee'.... you won't find it listed as a climber, but it's easy to train as a climbing rose when it takes off, as is Lady of S.. I never had any disease issues here with it..

...here are some photo examples of its growth.. as you can see it wasn't stopping at 8 foot but I didn't have the support for it... I would anticipate here at least 10-12 foot range if supported... all their larger shrub roses can be grown as climbers in your zone.. it has continuous bloom when established and is a fabulous Austin with sufficient space to do its own thing.. it's of Alba heritage apparently..
Adelaide (Z8b Canada) thanked User
Adelaide (Z8b Canada)
Original Author
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
@Rose Lai (9b) Thank you for the tip on Butchart Garden! Maybe some time in the summer I can go visit....when the province opens up a bit. What do your mother and sister in law grow that are relatively healthier compared to others? Yes rain is indeed a problem here....while I like living here, I do hate all the rain! I have heard of powdery mildew and black spot, but I haven't even looked into downy mildew....I think I'll have a lot to learn about taking care of my roses!

@User Oh I had no idea Royal Jubilee can grow that tall! DA's website just said 5 ft so I assumed it's your ordinary shrub rose....I am so in love with those blooms of yours! Does it rain much in your area? Maybe if it stays healthy in your area it would be sufficiently healthy in mine too...
User
3 years ago
@Adelaide (Z8b Canada)

..Adelaide... DA shrub roses of 4.5 feet or above, generally have a dual personality... some might use more colourful terms to describe it... in that they can be grown as a shrub, or as a climber.. that choice is with the gardener.. although the rose will often tell you in no uncertain terms, which way they intend to go, like it or lump it... I've grown a number of them as short climbers very easily indeed.. DA's heights are just a guide, transcribed direct from the UK inventory and can often seem ridiculous when you've had the rose a few years.... the only ones I know that perform true for us, are those marked 3.5 feet or lower.. and there aren't many of those..

Unlike the ever popular Gertrude Jekyll... Royal Jubilee has fewer thorns, better foliage and repeats much better..

I am in the driest [if that's the right term] part of England but we get rain, and humidity is nearly always high.. I get my share of black spot such as it is here.. you may have more strains to deal with where you are though... so it's perhaps not wise to take my experience and relate it to yours but it's all trial and error isn't it?... I really want that rose again, I had to remove it due to building work on my property.. I want to grow it again one day, as big as it could get... let the thing rip, you know?... best of luck...
Adelaide (Z8b Canada) thanked User
Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal
3 years ago
You might find something to try from this thread about black spot resistant roses.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5751405/what-are-your-most-floriferous-black-spot-resistant-roses-please-share
Adelaide (Z8b Canada) thanked Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal
Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
3 years ago
what is a great thread thanks for posting the link.
Adelaide (Z8b Canada)
Original Author
3 years ago
Thank you Marlorena and Stephanie! I perused through that thread just now and am slowly getting a pretty good idea of what I think I want....

I think I got sold on Bayarea Girl's Spirit of Freedom for my climber....and I am thinking Roald Dahl and Desdemona if I am to add more small shrubs. Royal Jubilee and WOH will be my backup climbers if I have space for more! Now I just need to find a nursery that sells all these.....I don't think I have seen Spirit of Freedom in the nurseries that I frequent....

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